Confirmed with Link: Wes Clark leaves the Leafs for promotion with the Penguins

[Mess]

This is the man tagged to replace Wes Clark by Treliving and he is already in the building.

Maple Leafs General Manager Brad Treliving Appoints Derek Clancey as Assistant GM, Player Personnel​

Clancey most recently served as an assistant general manager with the Vancouver Canucks last season.

Brad Treliving had made another addition to his front office. The Toronto Maple Leafs GM has added Derek Clancey to serve as an assistant general manager of player personnel, the club announced

The 54-year-old spent last season with the Vancouver Canucks in an identical role after coming over from the Pittsburgh Penguins, where he spent two seasons as the club's director of player personnel.

"I feel Derek is one of the premier talent evaluators in our game," Treliving said in a statement from the Leafs. "He is a three-time Stanley Cup champion and will play a big role as we continue our goal of building a championship team."

They both worked together during the 2021-22 season when Treliving brought Clancey on as a pro scout between other gigs.

Clancey was instrumental in the Penguins' three most recent Stanley Cup victories. First as a pro scout in 2009 and then as the director of player personnel.

The St. John's, Newfoundland native is Toronto's fifth assistant GM, joining Brandom Pridham, Dr. Hayley Wickenheiser (player development), Ryan Hardy (minor league operations and Darryl Metcalf (hockey research and development).

What comes next

It'll be interesting to see if there are any other front-office moves that may be affected by this. Minor-league operations and player personnel offer some form of duplication. It doesn't necessarily mean anything is imminent on that front and its expected that Clancey might now take on a larger role assisting in filling holes.

 

[seanlinden]

Wes Clark is leaving in part for the damage Dubass had inflicted on the Leafs prior to his leaving in terms of surviving draft picks and the prospect pool.. When Dubas left the Maple Leafs organization back in the spring of 2023, he left his successor, Brad Treliving, with very little in the way of meaningful draft capital for the following UPCOMING 3 seasons of high (Top 4 rounds 120 players).

Dubas was fired prior to last season 2023-24 and our Maple Leafs don't own their own 2nd round draft pick until 2027 . That means Dubass used 2nd round draft capital 2024, 2025 and 2026 (3 years into the future) to fuel past playoff failure that already occurred prior to leaving in 2023. That is only 2nd rounders discussion.

Wes Clark better than anyone knows the damage of NO picks is NO fun and impacts his job as amateur scout.

Even worse still the Leafs need to surrender their 2025 or 2026 1st rounder to pay off the Jake McCabe trade. However a clueless Dubas even handcuffed Treliving even further, because things have gone from bad to worse for the Leafs after it was pointed out recently that they may not even be able to move their 2026 1st round pick, due to the conditions of the Jake McCabe trade.

View attachment 894020

Per the conditions of the McCabe deal in 2022, the Leafs' 2025 1st round pick could actually slide to 2026, as the 2025 pick they sent to Chicago was "top-10 protected".

Are the Leafs actually going to be a bottom 10 team in the league this season? Well, no - they likely won't be. However, as long as it's mathematically possible for the Leafs to drop into that bottom-10 range, it appears as though they won't be able to move the pick. Regardless of hamstringing Treliving with ridiculous trade clause years into the future, he also handcuffed Wes Clark because its still either/or 2025 or 2026 that his heading to Chicago to pay the piper for that trade. No pick so No work to do.

Wes Clark is like a RAT leaving a sinking Leafs prospects ship, all inflicted on Toronto by his new boss in Pitts at the expense of his former boss in TO, both the same person. So he scurries away and the next poor Amateur scout for Toronto has to walk into a job recovering from scorched earth damage inflicted by those no longer able to be held accountable.

To be fair... if the Leafs wanted to trade their 2026 1st... they could do it. It would just have to be conditional in the "reverse" of the McCabe deal, or slide to 2027 if the Leafs end up with a top 10 pick.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

I'm not sure you know what the word regularly means.

Twice in the last 3 years is pretty regular. Maybe you forgot that they started their rebuild when Dumbass was handed the keys to a fully rebuilt team?

 

[notbias]

Twice in the last 3 years is pretty regular. Maybe you forgot that they started their rebuild when Dumbass was handed the keys to a fully rebuilt team?

They never tore it down and rebuilt it... it's amazing how many lies people will tell about other teams to try to make their "favourite" team look bad.

3 years seems like a small timeframe to form patterns.

I guess Toronto and Boston have the same playoff success in that case.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I think the Leafs should hire Benning as a replacement for Clark in scouting.

It's all he's done his whole life. He's drafted some pretty good players over the years. He did well in both Boston and Vancouver.

He's also a shameless sycophant.

He'd fit right in with the rest of the yes men Shanahan has surrounded himself with. Benning managed to keep his job in Vancouver for almost a decade. Despite being so obviously incompetent.

That takes some tremendous butt kissing.

I don't see any harm in letting Benning have a minor role in scouting. And if Treliving gets fired Benning can replace him too. Can't possibly be any worse.

Then again I said the same thing about Dubas.

 

[Stephen]

They never tore it down and rebuilt it... it's amazing how many lies people will tell about other teams to try to make their "favourite" team look bad.

3 years seems like a small timeframe to form patterns.

I guess Toronto and Boston have the same playoff success in that case.

Rangers have 6 ECF finals appearances and a trip to the finals since 2012. How’s that for a timeframe.

 

[notbias]

Rangers have 6 ECF finals appearances and a trip to the finals since 2012. How’s that for a timeframe.

Very large...

 

[Peasy]

Leafs need a solo owner who cares about winning! None of this corporate BS.

Yup. Just look at Bill Foley. All this dude cares about is winning. Thats all he talked about since signing the papers for the expansion team. He wanted to win at any cost. Vegas has made so many ruthless moves that would never go on here with this corporate set up. You NEED to be cut throat and ruthless to win in this league.

Best we get is "We're not interested in selling jerseys" and then have nothing major change at all the following summer lol.

 

[Kazparov]

Meh. So long, prolly got a big fat raise, can't blame him. Dubas sure digging in to Pit like a tick. Bringing in all the same guys. Thought he was supposed to be an innovator instead he's just got his boys club going.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Shanahan has surrounded

He’s done after this year

Pelley is keeping him around just to show him the ropes and then he’s gone

 

[ACC1224]

Leafs need a solo owner who cares about winning! None of this corporate BS.

Always considered that a bad idea. They have enough trouble winning without having someone meddling in day to day operations. Do you not remember Stavros trimming payroll, saying no to Gretzky because his grocery business was tanking?
Everyone wants to win, where do you see Corporate BS preventing that here?

 

[Peasy]

Always considered that a bad idea. They have enough trouble winning without having someone meddling in day to day operations. Do you not remember Stavros trimming payroll, saying no to Gretzky because his grocery business was tanking?
Everyone wants to win, where do you see Corporate BS preventing that here?

Think the bigger issue is having 3 major owners all chiming in on stuff rather than just one. Not to mention two of them are rival companies that don't like each other. There were issues trying to get Masai re-signed AFTER he brought the raps a championship because Rogers thought he wasnt worth it and it got messy. At this current point in time you could have each three major share holders all wanting the Leafs to go in a different direction. Some could want to be more aggressive in their approach, some might just be fine with keeping status quo etc. It is not a recipe for success imo. Theyre a dysfunctional family and it bleeds into the orgs.

 

[ACC1224]

Think the bigger issue is having 3 major owners all chiming in on stuff rather than just one. Not to mention two of them are rival companies that don't like each other. There were issues trying to get Masai re-signed AFTER he brought the raps a championship because Rogers thought he wasnt worth it and it got messy. At this current point in time you could have each three major share holders all wanting the Leafs to go in a different direction. Some could want to be more aggressive in their approach, some might just be fine with keeping status quo etc. It is not a recipe for success imo. Theyre a dysfunctional family and it bleeds into the orgs.

Not saying it doesn't exist but I haven't seen any examples of MLSE interfering with the Leafs. IMO, you don't want Ownership dictating the approach to take to produce a winner. You pay experienced professionals to make that assessment and determine the approach.

Interesting topic, would make a good off season thread.

 

[uncleben]

Reality Check back to Wes Clark ..

Due to the damage of Dubass, Wes Clark only made 3 draft selection total in 2021 (Only 1 in the top 150 drafted players)

View attachment 894025

He also left Treliving upon his departure for Wes Clark to make 3 draft selections in 2023. (Again only 1 pick in the top 150).

View attachment 894026

Leafs only had 1 pick in the top 120+ players from 2024 draft just complete when Treliving traded back twice to try and recapture draft capital and draft Ben Danford. (Again only 1 draft selection in top 120).

View attachment 894029

Without BT trading back and acquiring Florida's 2nd rounder in 2025 the Leafs had ZERO picks in rounds 1 - 4 of this upcoming 2025 draft with their own first selection available the mid 5th round.

So you put yourself in any Director of Amateur scouting shoes for a moment and your Clueless GM due to his reckless disregard for Leafs future at the expense of fueling his incompetent complete playoff failure of losing in the 1st round playoffs year after year and mortgaging the future at levels NO NHL team has faced.

When you sit on the road for 1000's of hours away from friends and family in cold junior arenas, sleeping in motels around the World scouting just so you get to make 1 pick every top 120 players year after year, how can you blame anyone from leaving that level of damage on your job responsibilities of trying finding and providing talent for the NHL club?.

Clark started in 2022 when he had 5 picks, 4 in the top 150

And over Dubas' time here, he averaged exactly 7 picks per draft (including one year where we had 12 picks)
If you want to take away 2018 and add in 2023 instead, he averaged 5.8 picks per draft.

If you look at recent Cup winners, Colorado average 5.4 picks per draft in the 5 years leading up to the Cup (including only 2 picks the year they won the Cup, not picking until 193rd overall), Vegas had 6.0, Florida had 6.6 (including three years in a row without a first round pick and 50% more 6th and 7th round picks than the other teams compared above)

That's the price to pay be a competitive team. Stop trying to make this bigger than what it is.

If Wes Clark was so hurt by Kyle Dubas' pick trading he wouldn't leave his cushy Toronto job to go work for Kyle Dubas again.
And if any scout hated the cold rinks and travelling so much, they wouldn't be scouts (not that Clark's job saw him doing that much in-person scouting anymore probably, anyway).

 

[Tak7]

Knowing now that Wes Clark intended to run down his contract in Toronto and had no intention of staying here, it's extremely puzzling as to why the Leafs let him remain on as Director of Player Personel and managing their draft table.

If you know he's gone, why not move it along and bring in your own guy?

That feels like a very under-discussed blunder in a list of blunders by Shanahan and co.

If Wes Clark was so hurt by Kyle Dubas' pick trading he wouldn't leave his cushy Toronto job to go work for Kyle Dubas again.

The Penguins have plenty of picks, and will likely be acquiring more, over the next few years - seems like an ideal situation if you're in Wes Clark's shoes.

The Dubas relationship is just an added bonus. We know one of Kyle's strengths was in developing that interpersonal side, which is why we've seen an exodus and continue to see one.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

He’s done after this year

Pelley is keeping him around just to show him the ropes and then he’s gone

I believe you are correct.

So far as I remember this is the last year of his contract is it not. Speaks volumes they look set to enter the season with him as a lame duck president. They should just fire him now and get it over with.

Wouldn't be surprised if they extend him instead though

 

[hotpaws]

Clark started in 2022 when he had 5 picks, 4 in the top 150

And over Dubas' time here, he averaged exactly 7 picks per draft (including one year where we had 12 picks)
If you want to take away 2018 and add in 2023 instead, he averaged 5.8 picks per draft.

If you look at recent Cup winners, Colorado average 5.4 picks per draft in the 5 years leading up to the Cup (including only 2 picks the year they won the Cup, not picking until 193rd overall), Vegas had 6.0, Florida had 6.6 (including three years in a row without a first round pick and 50% more 6th and 7th round picks than the other teams compared above)

That's the price to pay be a competitive team. Stop trying to make this bigger than what it is.

If Wes Clark was so hurt by Kyle Dubas' pick trading he wouldn't leave his cushy Toronto job to go work for Kyle Dubas again.
And if any scout hated the cold rinks and travelling so much, they wouldn't be scouts (not that Clark's job saw him doing that much in-person scouting anymore probably, anyway).

you can't just look at total picks which were inflated by when we had 6 picks in the 6th/7tg rounds in the 2020 draft and then ignore how many future picks he traded before he was fired , along with not leaving 1sts he also traded our next 4 second rd picks

and no it's not the simply the price to supplement our core when the vast majority of the picks were traded for rentals instead of long term pieces or like trading two 2nds and a 3rd for an ancient Gio to play on our bottom pair

I have no idea how some still can't grasp the magnitude of his incompetence but all you have to do is look at what he inherited then what he left to easily see that he probably ruined the opportunity to build around the best young group of kids we had in decades

it's truly mind boggling how attached this board gets to GM's . especially failed GM's like Dubas and Burke , it's like they only follow the sport because the GM is the entertainment and not the on ice product

 

[Menzinger]

Knowing now that Wes Clark intended to run down his contract in Toronto and had no intention of staying here, it's extremely puzzling as to why the Leafs let him remain on as Director of Player Personel and managing their draft table.

If you know he's gone, why not move it along and bring in your own guy?

That feels like a very under-discussed blunder in a list of blunders by Shanahan and co.

Shannys approach to the front office after letting Dubas go, was seemingly to try and keep the same structure in place and then just drop in Tre.

In retrospect it's not surprising that this hasn't been as smooth as he likely would have hoped.

 

[Stephen]

Shannys approach to the front office after letting Dubas go, was seemingly to try and keep the same structure in place and then just drop in Tre.

In retrospect it's not surprising that this hasn't been as smooth as he likely would have hoped.

Is that true though? The Leafs hired Derek Clancey last summer as AGM and a player personnel guy with no fanfare or mention but seems like he’s already in the wings.

 

[Menzinger]

Is that true though? The Leafs hired Derek Clancey last summer as AGM and a player personnel guy with no fanfare or mention but seems like he’s already in the wings.

I mean the entire coaching staff the other AGMs, analytics guys,all stayed in place. No changes to the scouting other than hiring Muzzins and a couple guys changed job titles.

Clancy aside it was essentially the same group as the previous season

 

[Stephen]

I mean the entire coaching staff the other AGMs, analytics guys,all stayed in place. No changes to the scouting other than hiring Muzzins and a couple guys changed job titles.

Clancy aside it was essentially the same group as the previous season

Well they brought in Guy Boucher and Mike Van Ryn last summer so there’s been a filtering in and out. It’s not like they’re just keeping old regime infrastructure.

 

[Shooter2x]

Knowing now that Wes Clark intended to run down his contract in Toronto and had no intention of staying here, it's extremely puzzling as to why the Leafs let him remain on as Director of Player Personel and managing their draft table.

If you know he's gone, why not move it along and bring in your own guy?

That feels like a very under-discussed blunder in a list of blunders by Shanahan and co.


The Penguins have plenty of picks, and will likely be acquiring more, over the next few years - seems like an ideal situation if you're in Wes Clark's shoes.

The Dubas relationship is just an added bonus. We know one of Kyle's strengths was in developing that interpersonal side, which is why we've seen an exodus and continue to see one.

Clark still put in hours upon hours of work for this draft.

I don't like Dubas as a GM but I like him as a person. If he's close with Clark, that most likely means Clark is an ethical person. He would see his work through then leave (As in, why would Leafs throw this value away this draft).

Plus, there's still self-interest involved. His resume will grow regardless who the team is he hits for (if he hits).

 

[Tak7]

Clark still put in hours upon hours of work for this draft.

I don't like Dubas as a GM but I like him as a person. If he's close with Clark, that most likely means Clark is an ethical person. He would see his work through then leave (As in, why would Leafs throw this value away this draft).

Plus, there's still self-interest involved. His resume will grow regardless who the team is he hits for (if he hits).

If he had no intention of sticking around once Dubas left, why give him this past season?

He would have seen this work through last draft & development camp and then moved him on & given "your guy" a year to get upto speed

 

[darrylsittler27]

Wes leaving didn't matter, we have no picks. It's pathetic.

 

[Mess]

Clark started in 2022 when he had 5 picks, 4 in the top 150

And over Dubas' time here, he averaged exactly 7 picks per draft (including one year where we had 12 picks)
If you want to take away 2018 and add in 2023 instead, he averaged 5.8 picks per draft.

If you look at recent Cup winners, Colorado average 5.4 picks per draft in the 5 years leading up to the Cup (including only 2 picks the year they won the Cup, not picking until 193rd overall), Vegas had 6.0, Florida had 6.6 (including three years in a row without a first round pick and 50% more 6th and 7th round picks than the other teams compared above)

That's the price to pay be a competitive team. Stop trying to make this bigger than what it is.

If Wes Clark was so hurt by Kyle Dubas' pick trading he wouldn't leave his cushy Toronto job to go work for Kyle Dubas again.
And if any scout hated the cold rinks and travelling so much, they wouldn't be scouts (not that Clark's job saw him doing that much in-person scouting anymore probably, anyway).

That argument my friend assumes all picks are equal and that drafting Leafs Auston Matthews with the 1st overall = Leafs drafting Nathan Mayes in 2024 with the #225th pick (last overall) = 2 selections made. From a scouts POV and prospect level 2 very different things. 1st round and a 7th rounder are equal as PICKS but certainly not equal in VALUE.

You would have to take the value of of the draft selection spot ie spot #50 (2nd) and # 100 (4th) = 150 / 2 average draft class position = 75.. But if another team had 2 X 1st round picks in top 32 say picks 6 and 22 overall their average draft selection would be 28 / 2 = 14. Very different return on value and very different level of prospects a Scout is putting into a teams prospect pool.

Averaging doesn't work either ..

ex .. Team #1 = 1 X 2nd & 3 X 6th rounders + 3 X 7th rounders = 7 picks total & Team #2: 3 X 1sts & 2 X 2nds + 4th + 5th = 7 picks

Both teams average 7 picks but in 1 example a team making 5 picks in perhaps top 100 BEST players available is much much different then a team making 1 in top 150 and then 6 picks later also equal 7.

Also each draft class is individual because some are stronger graduating classes and some are weaker ones and you can't combine to average picks across classes as equal. A scout has to approach his work from 1 draft year to the next in a calendar year so averaging workload over many years also doesn't work.

ex.

vs.

You're implying via Math and averaging because the Leafs made 12 picks in 2020 (including 3 X 6th round & 3 X 7th all > 150 best players available that over that course of those last 4 years Leafs have made on average combined with the 11 draft picks (over 3 years combined 2021-2023 ) = 23 picks / 4 years = 5 - 6 picks a year. While the math is correct that is not telling an accurate story of scouts work load per year nor anywhere close to the level of talent a team is adding to its prospect pool.

Even though each team is given 7 picks per draft year by the NHL to start one in each round, that because Dubas made 12 picks in 2020 that excuses all the damage he did to classes 2021-2023 because on average he is fine. He was fired in 2023 and he had already traded 2023 - 2026 (4 years of future 2nds alone) he emptied rounds 1-4 in 2025. Not sure why you want to defend these actions.