We're Around 4 million over the cap even with Murray and Muzzin on LTIR, Who is Gone?

[Mess]

In 42 games with the Leafs last season, Samsonov posted 4 shutouts to go along with a .919 save percentage and 2.33 GAA while holding a 27-10-5 record. He followed up a solid regular season by helping the Leafs get out of the first round for the first time in 19 years. While his numbers were not great in the playoffs, going 4-4 with an .898 save percentage and 3.13 GAA, he played well enough to give the Leafs a chance to win and kept them in every single game. Unfortunately, they just could not score.

With Samsonov now a restricted free agent, the Russian netminder opted to file for salary arbitration with a reported ask of between $4M and $5M per season. As you can imagine, the Leafs are probably coming in with a much lower offer, but as is often the case, the two sides will still have a chance to settle prior to Samsonov's arbitration date.

Until today, we did not know when Samsonov's arbitration case would be. Now, the date has been set for his hearing, which will take place on July 21st. That means we should have a resolution for Samsonov's next contract very soon and once that happens, the second buyout window will open for the Leafs. When that happens, if Matt Murray hasn't been traded, he'll likely be bought out.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Murray will stay until Leafs know what Sammy will cost next season .. if too expensive (over 4M) then there is still a chance Sammy becomes a UFA and Murray plays out his last year .. Jankrok and Brodie likely guys on da outs with trades to reduce CAP hit

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I was hoping Dubie was going to take him in Pittsburgh but now he has Jarry so it is a dead horse .. probably a load of media horse gung to begin with

 

[Golden_Jet]

Murray will stay until Leafs know what Sammy will cost next season .. if too expensive (over 4M) then there is still a chance Sammy becomes a UFA and Murray plays out his last year .. Jankrok and Brodie likely guys on da outs with trades to reduce CAP hit

Team can walk away if ruling is over roughly 4.54 million, if less team cannot walk away.

Team can choose 1 or 2 years, 1 year if only 1 year away from UFA status.

 

[Its not your fault]

Send one of Robertson or Holmberg down and that gives us 3 mill. Obviously one more move will come, but we're pretty close, it doesn't need to be drastic,

This is how you get fleeced

I was hoping Dubie was going to take him in Pittsburgh but now he has Jarry so it is a dead horse .. probably a load of media horse gung to begin with

I would guess deadline day for a 7th if he was still here.

 

[Mitch nylander]

This is how you get fleeced

Moving a guy like Timmins for a younger c-tier prospect is the type of trade you do. Not a guy who would drastically change the makeup of the roster.

You would then be perfectly cap compliant.

 

[Its not your fault]

Moving a guy like Timmins for a younger c-tier prospect is the type of trade you do. Not a guy who would drastically change the makeup of the roster.

You would then be perfectly cap compliant.

Your absolutely right. I miss read sent down as trade for some reason.

 

[EGL22]

It sucks so much how the NHL has come to this. Counting on injured players, buyouts, low-value trades, having to give away draft picks for Ufa mistakes, etc. It really is embarrassing.

The NFL system that allows contracts to be terminated would be great.

But the NHLPA will never let that in the CBA.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Team can walk away if ruling is over roughly 4.54 million, if less team cannot walk away.

Team can choose 1 or 2 years, 1 year if only 1 year away from UFA status.

Yeah Murray is same basic aav number so hopefully Leafs negotiate something in 3.5-4M range with Sammy and then buyout Murray .. net affect on team CAP is minor .. roughly $1.5M left to reduce CAP with 11 forwards, 7 D and 2G (20) .. so a Jankrok or Brodie trade incoming

 

[Mess]

The NFL system that allows contracts to be terminated would be great.

But the NHLPA will never let that in the CBA.

In the NHL contracts are fully 100% guaranteed, while in the NFL there is only guaranteed money as a part of a bigger contract (very few are fully guaranteed).

While contracts can be terminated and players released there are still cap penalties to the team if money is owed the player.

 

[crump]

What’s the cap hit scenario on a Murray contract buyout? 1.5 mil? And how many years?

 

[TheScandal89]

What’s the cap hit scenario on a Murray contract buyout? 1.5 mil? And how many years?

Idk exact but its like 550k this season and 2 million next season. That 2 mil is kinda important and its the main problem with the buyout option.

 

[Fogelhund]

What’s the cap hit scenario on a Murray contract buyout? 1.5 mil? And how many years?

 

[crump]

Best part is Ottawa taking a cap hit as well. Lol.

It seemed next year will create a good amount of room with the buyout, but the next year will be tighter. If the cap goes up another 2 million I guess it won’t matter as much.

 

[Menzinger]

The NFL system that allows contracts to be terminated would be great.

But the NHLPA will never let that in the CBA.

The owners would have to offer up a pretty big concession for it to happen l. Like reducing the RFA years by half so guys could become free agents at like 22-23.

But even then I doubt the PA would give up probably their most valuable asset

 

[Legion34]

Interesting wrinkle.

If you demote timmins and buyout Murray you have 3.45 to sign Samsonov. I thought that was going to be how they solved it with the second window.


But apparently the second buyout window only gets triggered if the player makes 4 or more… which would still leave them over the cap. So something has to change.

 

[Zonk]

Interesting wrinkle.

If you demote timmins and buyout Murray you have 3.45 to sign Samsonov. I thought that was going to be how they solved it with the second window.


But apparently the second buyout window only gets triggered if the player makes 4 or more… which would still leave them over the cap. So something has to change.

According to CapFriendly:

Requirements:

1. A buyout can only be performed on a player who was on the clubs reserve list at 3:00pm on the most recent trade deadline
2. The player must have a cap hit of at least $4,000,000 for the 2023 offseason

Since Murray was on the Leafs reserve list at TDA and has a cap hit of over $4 million, he can be bought out.

 

[Legion34]

According to CapFriendly:

Requirements:

1. A buyout can only be performed on a player who was on the clubs reserve list at 3:00pm on the most recent trade deadline
2. The player must have a cap hit of at least $4,000,000 for the 2023 offseason

Since Murray was on the Leafs reserve list at TDA and has a cap hit of over $4 million, he can be bought out.

Ohhhh I thought it was the awarded player a salary over 4
So in Theory Samsonov good get 3.4 and open the window because Murray is over.

 

[-DeMo-]

If Sammy is really going into arb with a 4 million or More ask then buying out Murray makes no sense. I could see an argument at 3 million because you would be saving 1 mill on goalies this year but if Sammy comes in at 4+ that means we’re saving nothing on the cap by signing Sammy and just giving ourselves a 2 million cap penalty next year for basically nothing. Especially if Sammy doesn’t play well it’ll be one of the dumbest moves ever. And with Sammy’s history it’s not like he’s guarantee to be better then Murray next year.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

We’ll probably lose Timmins but that’s the way she goes in a cap world.

 

[Mess]

Ohhhh I thought it was the awarded player a salary over 4
So in Theory Samsonov good get 3.4 and open the window because Murray is over.

You are also right in that regard because there a 2 different issues in play here.. Your focused on the Sammy side and there is also the Murry buyout sides to allow teams to become cap compliant.

Here is what you're referencing.

Another interesting thing that Alter had pointed out is that if the Leafs and Samsonov do go through with the arbitration hearing, the award can only be a 1-year deal, since Samsonov is 1 year away from UFA status. Also, that any dollar amount above $4,538,958 that is awarded to Samsonov would mean that the Leafs have the option to walk away from the arb award, which would make Samsonov a UFA. Anything less, and the Leafs would have no choice but to accept the deal.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

The Leafs still struggle to make ends meet.

The team gambled on their payroll construction and lost. Now there is no easy way out of this mess they have created for themselves. Not anything they would be willing to pursue anyway.

This is what happens when you run a top heavy roster.

It becomes increasingly difficult to ice a competitive team. The fans can see the results for themselves. The Leafs are the only team over the cap even with LTIR accounted for.

A rising salary cap does nothing to alleviate the pressure either.

Salaries at the top end are rising faster than the cap. The Leafs will continue to jettison good mid-range depth in order to pay for their stars as a result. Being cheap with the grunts who do all the heavy lifting, while paying too much to the guys who don't want to work as hard.

Another master class in asset management, Toronto Maple Leafs style.

 

[Racer88]

The Leafs still struggle to make ends meet.

The team gambled on their payroll construction and lost. Now there is no easy way out of this mess they have created for themselves. Not anything they would be willing to pursue anyway.

This is what happens when you run a top heavy roster.

It becomes increasingly difficult to ice a competitive team. The fans can see the results for themselves. The Leafs are the only team over the cap even with LTIR accounted for.

A rising salary cap does nothing to alleviate the pressure either.

Salaries at the top end are rising faster than the cap. The Leafs will continue to jettison good mid-range depth in order to pay for their stars as a result. Being cheap with the grunts who do all the heavy lifting, while paying too much to the guys who don't want to work as hard.

Another master class in asset management, Toronto Maple Leafs style.

Kyle Dubas was the worst thing to happen to the Leafs in a long time.
He makes Burke look like a genius

 

[JT AM da real deal]

If Sammy is really going into arb with a 4 million or More ask then buying out Murray makes no sense. I could see an argument at 3 million because you would be saving 1 mill on goalies this year but if Sammy comes in at 4+ that means we’re saving nothing on the cap by signing Sammy and just giving ourselves a 2 million cap penalty next year for basically nothing. Especially if Sammy doesn’t play well it’ll be one of the dumbest moves ever. And with Sammy’s history it’s not like he’s guarantee to be better then Murray next year.

Thats why Leafs have not made a decision yet .. it could turn out Sammy is signed and traded too

 

[AcerComputer]

Kyle Dubas was the worst thing to happen to the Leafs in a long time.
He makes Burke look like a genius

Burke literally traded away two 1st round picks (Seguin and Hamilton) for a one trick pony winger who doesn't play defense, thinking that his team was ready to compete for the SC despite all the evidence to the contrary, including finishing at the bottom the league the previous 2 seasons . Burke set this team back 5+ years. There is no comparison.