Prospect Info: Welcome to Montréal, Jesperi Kotkaniemi (1st round pick, 3OA 2018 - signed ELC)

[Adam Michaels]

 

[TheBuriedHab]

I think anyone thats actually seen him play can say he definitely has 1st line center potential. Its like him being defensively responsible is a negative to some. Hes got the puck skills, the shot, the vision, the physicality and the IQ. 2nd line center is his floor. His balance and agility need works but his straight line speed is very good.

I think people should be legitimately excited about him, he will be a fan favorite very soon.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I'm not comparing him to Zadina or anyone else.

I get that he has nice stats. I think that's clear for everyone. I watched every single one of his liiga games last season and based on that I have doubts.

Trying to look beyond the stats here. And by the way, a former teammate described Jesperis center like this: a traffic cone would get 30pts playing with him.

Lol, who? Kärki?

 

[TheRocket87]

Lol, who? Kärki?

That's the opinion of a vet that played two seasons with him, not mine.

Kärki has problems in skating, other than that he's an elite player in Liiga.

And lol? Are you twelve?

 

[Kriss E]

I think anyone thats actually seen him play can say he definitely has 1st line center potential. Its like him being defensively responsible is a negative to some. Hes got the puck skills, the shot, the vision, the physicality and the IQ. 2nd line center is his floor. His balance and agility need works but his straight line speed is very good.

I think people should be legitimately excited about him, he will be a fan favorite very soon.

Didn't he play wing last season?...

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Didn't he play wing last season?...

In Liiga yes. Internationally against his peers for Finland he played 1st line Center.

 

[TheRocket87]

Lol, who? Kärki?

Ok, so as I am clearly stupid or blind can you point out the impressive or even positive plays he makes in these samples? 3 per game will suffice and shouldn't be too much to ask since elite IQ should be clearly visible in everything a player does.

Also can you do this for me?
If possible throw in a few of the ton of scoring chances he created for his linemates.

Do you actually see the complete player that drives the play of his line in these samples?

 

[Kriss E]

In Liiga yes. Internationally against his peers for Finland he played 1st line Center.

So based on what..10-15 games? In an international tournament? Based on those games, he is unquestionably a top line center prospect?

He didn't burn the Liiga man. He isn't a surefire top liner because of some little international play.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

I'm not comparing him to Zadina or anyone else.

I get that he has nice stats. I think that's clear for everyone. I watched every single one of his liiga games last season and based on that I have doubts.

Trying to look beyond the stats here. And by the way, a former teammate described Jesperis center like this: a traffic cone would get 30pts playing with him.

Good thing teams draft based on what they see and not points, then.

 

[Kriss E]

Good thing teams draft based on what they see and not points, then.

Looking at the track record of most teams, I think drafting is due for a complete 180 in their approach.

 

[NotProkofievian]

That's the opinion of a vet that played two seasons with him, not mine.

Kärki has problems in skating, other than that he's an elite player in Liiga.

And lol? Are you twelve?

They must have different traffic cones in Tampere.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Sorry, but this is starting to unravel for you. Our best center is Danault ''ffs,'' but you think it's fantastic that we drafted a 45 pt center at best?

You do realise that's basically what Danault is, right? Coming off a 40 pt season, and another ~0.5ppg season.

Danault has one season of exactly 40 points, and it took him until he was 24 yrs old to do it. Before that, his best season was 10 points. I see Kots as a likely all-around 2C, good for around 50 pts per season in his prime. You are unraveling because someone has a different opinion.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

So based on what..10-15 games? In an international tournament? Based on those games, he is unquestionably a top line center prospect?

He didn't burn the Liiga man. He isn't a surefire top liner because of some little international play.

So because he only put up ok numbers and didn't light the Liiga up as a 17 year old coming off an ACL surgery ,on a mediocre team he doesn't have top line potential? what? I really don't care too much about the stats, I'm looking at the tools he shows when hes on the ice and where that projects in 5 years. The fact that hes shown hes not incompetent as a 17 year old against men is just the bare minimum when evaluating him.

And that "little international play" was against the top u-18s around the world. He dominated games that I watched, with and without the puck. In the Gold medal game against USA his line was put on the Ice every time Jack Hughes' line was out there, that guy thats supposed to go number 1 next year, Yeah Jesperi shut him down and also picked up 2 assists.

I didn't say hes a surefire top line center. I did say he has shown the Potential to become one. Maybe he doesn't become a first line center, maybe he does, nobody at this time knows, we are all playing the projection game right now. I'd really like to know what tools he hasn't shown you that makes you think he has a small chance of becoming one.

 

[TheRocket87]

They must have different traffic cones in Tampere.

I'm not sure why you keep bashing Kärki and making it seem like Kotka played with crap. That's totally beside the point as is the fact that you're basing a players quality on a dozen games most of which came in the role of a bottom 6 winger.

If the guy is a surefire top6 c then i'd think you'd have better arguments than bashing his linemates and other posters.

Maybe start with my request about the clips you so kindly provided here.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Where's Barkov?

 

[NotProkofievian]

I'm not sure why you keep bashing Kärki and making it seem like Kotka played with crap. That's totally beside the point as is the fact that you're basing a players quality on a dozen games most of which came in the role of a bottom 6 winger.

''Guys, Kärki is a tremendous player, believe me, a traffic cone could get 30 points playing with him.''

''HE WASN'T USED FAIRLY IN TAMPERE!''

So much for that narrative.

If the guy is a surefire top6 c then i'd think you'd have better arguments than bashing his linemates and other posters.

Maybe start with my request about the clips you ao kindly provided here.

I'm not here to dance for you. Why don't you take the first game, and do a shift by shift analysis and argue what you think he could have done better if you really want to go down this road. Other posters have done this for other prospects who they found underwhelming, I don't see why you can't do the same thing.

Btw, why don't you put a little skin in the game and give us a D+1 projection for Jesperi.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Danault has one season of exactly 40 points, and it took him until he was 24 yrs old to do it. Before that, his best season was 10 points. I see Kots as a likely all-around 2C, good for around 50 pts per season in his prime. You are unraveling because someone has a different opinion.

Is 24 years old not Danault's prime or what?

 

[TheRocket87]

''Guys, Kärki is a tremendous player, believe me, a traffic cone could get 30 points playing with him.''

''HE WASN'T USED FAIRLY IN TAMPERE!''

So much for that narrative.



I'm not here to dance for you. Why don't you take the first game, and do a shift by shift analysis and argue what you think he could have done better if you really want to go down this road. Other posters have done this for other prospects who they found underwhelming, I don't see why you can't do the same thing.

Btw, why don't you put a little skin in the game and give us a D+1 projection for Jesperi.

Well obviously a 19 game strecth is the career defining sample size for a guy that's played for about 5 seasons.

Anyway onwards from Jesperis useless linemates..

Well, I thought this would'nt be a problem for you since you seem so passionate about this and hang around here 24/7. I also thought that the 3oa player should separate himself positively at least in the extent I requested. Not just not be crap. From the top of my mind in the HPK game the goal allowed was on Jesperi. Also constantly in the wrong place without the puck and running in to his linemates. Kept losing the puck and got himself into hopeless positions By hanging onto the puck for way too long. All this without having to play without the anchor that is Kärki.

You also made the claim that he sets his linemates up for tons of chances that they're just unable to finish off. Those we're for some reason completely absent in these games. Or did I just not see them?

I'll put skin in the game. I say the piece of crap Kärki scores more points than JK next season. Inspite of Jesperi probably getting the premium minutes. You say JK outscores Kärki. Loser deletes their account.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Well obviously a 19 game strecth is the career defining sample size for a guy that's played for about 5 seasons.

Anyway onwards from Jesperis useless linemates..

Wherein TheRocket87 complains about a 19 game sample size, but then...

Well, I thought this would'nt be a problem for you since you seem so passionate about this and hang around here 24/7. I also thought that the 3oa player should separate himself positively at least in the extent I requested. Not just not be crap. From the top of my mind in the HPK game the goal allowed was on Jesperi. Also constantly in the wrong place without the puck and running in to his linemates. Kept losing the puck and got himself into hopeless positions By hanging onto the puck for way too long. All this without having to play without the anchor that is Kärki.

A couple turnovers!? In a 5 game sample!? THE HORROR!

Compelling stuff.

We'll all note that you declined your own invitation. It's a lot easier to ask other people to go through an hour's worth of video before constructing an argument that you can glibly pot shot away with such incredibly specific arguments as ''goal allowed was on Jesperi,'' than do it yourself. I'll note for our listeners that the game TheRocket is freaking out about over here was his second game in Liiga.

...and he was out of position!

I'll put skin in the game. I say the piece of crap Kärki scores more points than JK next season. Inspite of Jesperi probably getting the premium minutes. You say JK outscores Kärki. Loser deletes their account.

Before I accept your bet: do you own a Kärki jersey?

Jesperi will miss quite a few games due to the WJC and U20 camps. Exclude the games Jesperi will miss in the total and you got yourself a deal. Let's include an injury clause for the both of them.

 

[TheRocket87]

Wherein TheRocket87 complains about a 19 game sample size, but then...



A couple turnovers!? In a 5 game sample!? THE HORROR!

Compelling stuff.

We'll all note that you declined your own invitation. It's a lot easier to ask other people to go through an hour's worth of video before constructing an argument that you can glibly pot shot away with such incredibly specific arguments as ''goal allowed was on Jesperi,'' than do it yourself. I'll note for our listeners that the game TheRocket is freaking out about over here was his second game in Liiga.

...and he was out of position!



Before I accept your bet: do you own a Kärki jersey?

Jesperi will miss quite a few games due to the WJC and U20 camps. Exclude the games Jesperi will miss in the total and you got yourself a deal. Let's include an injury clause for the both of them.

First I didn't say a couple of turnovers, rather that he constantly loses posession. Ok so a small sample size doesn't apply here, even though it's all the material provided. And as I've said I base these notions on the whole season, which is a fair sample size when we're talking about last season. But the small sample size without Any consideration for context applies for your agenda... that's fair.

I don't own any Ässät jerseys since I'm not a hc fan of the team. Mainly watch because of prospects and junior games. Jesperi was one the main reasons to watch this season. In fact I don't own any jerseys.

Let's do higher ppg. Goals scored is the tie breaker, no other clauses involved.

Do you by any chance own a Kotkaniemi jersey since you're clearly passionately in love with the kid?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

First of all, he's 6'3''. Second, no, I don't think many thought he had 1D potential; he was projected to go in the 2nd and even 3rd round by some scouts and publications. There were red flags from the beginning with that pick, chief among them: he was playing on a high school team.

Back to Kotkaniemi; he was more of a reach than any of those top-10 Habs picks you listed. In fact, the only one who could be considered somewhat of a reach was Price, and look what happened there. Kopitar should have been the pick, not just in hindsight either, lots of people thought so at the time. Reaches usually don't work out, and the team who does it usually gets burned. Scheifele worked out great, but who else lately? The list of unsuccessful reaches is long and sad. Like I said, I think the Habs were influenced by the media with this pick, and this draft as a whole. That's not how you run a franchise. The Habs front office has no idea what they are doing, so excuse me for being skeptical about a reach pick in the top-3.

Your whole pet theory about the Habs being influenced by the media doesn't hold in face of the fact i remember Grant McCagg said the Habs were considering Kotka in a tweet around mid march/early april, way before he rose on many lists. Ask anyone who read McCagg's tweets. I hate the guy, but he's got an inside on Timmins and called that pick a long time ago.

Put it to rest.

 

[Kriss E]

So because he only put up ok numbers and didn't light the Liiga up as a 17 year old coming off an ACL surgery ,on a mediocre team he doesn't have top line potential? what? I really don't care too much about the stats, I'm looking at the tools he shows when hes on the ice and where that projects in 5 years. The fact that hes shown hes not incompetent as a 17 year old against men is just the bare minimum when evaluating him.

And that "little international play" was against the top u-18s around the world. He dominated games that I watched, with and without the puck. In the Gold medal game against USA his line was put on the Ice every time Jack Hughes' line was out there, that guy thats supposed to go number 1 next year, Yeah Jesperi shut him down and also picked up 2 assists.

I didn't say hes a surefire top line center. I did say he has shown the Potential to become one. Maybe he doesn't become a first line center, maybe he does, nobody at this time knows, we are all playing the projection game right now. I'd really like to know what tools he hasn't shown you that makes you think he has a small chance of becoming one.

Not sure why you are getting so damn defensive here. You are talking about a 17 yo who hasn't burnt any league. I mean, ya, that's true. It doesn't mean he can't break the chains next year and completely let loose.

You said he DEFINITELY showed to have the potential of being a top line CENTER.
I thought that was a bit of a reach seeing how he did not play center last season.

Keep in mind that both Koivu and Plekanec were not even considered top line centers here even in their prime (Koivu could have been, perhaps, had he not gotten injured). Galchenyuk, who I think showed more talent and promise than Kotka, couldn't make it either.
So unless a player really shows me some seriously special talent, I'm going to hold off from talking about the top line spot.

 

[NotProkofievian]

First I didn't say a couple of turnovers, rather that he constantly loses posession. Ok so a small sample size doesn't apply here, even though it's all the material provided. And as I've said I base these notions on the whole season, which is a fair sample size when we're talking about last season. But the small sample size without Any consideration for context applies for your agenda... that's fair.

Nobody has any idea what any of this means.

I don't own any Ässät jerseys since I'm not a hc fan of the team. Mainly watch because of prospects and junior games. Jesperi was one the main reasons to watch this season. In fact I don't own any jerseys.

Let's do higher ppg. Goals scored is the tie breaker, no other clauses involved.

Higher PPG, minimum Liiga games played for both is 10, tie breaker's fine.

 

[Kriss E]

Not sure why people are pissing over each other's posts about a 17yo prospect who just put up a .5ppg in Liiga.
Like, there is nothing definitive outside him showing some potential that still needs time to truly be determined.

The only thing I can confidentally say at this point is Kotkaniemi is not the future of the Habs. He's a good young prospect to have. Cool. We need plenty more of those and also have to add strong NHLers.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Not sure why people are pissing over each other's posts about a 17yo prospect who just put up a .5ppg in Liiga.
Like, there is nothing definitive outside him showing some potential that still needs time to truly be determined.

The only thing I can confidentally say at this point is Kotkaniemi is not the future of the Habs. He's a good young prospect to have. Cool. We need plenty more of those and also have to add strong NHLers.

Debbie Downer