Prospect Info: Welcome to Montréal, Jesperi Kotkaniemi (1st round pick, 3OA 2018 - signed ELC)

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Gainesvillain

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Like I said, there were players with higher upside available.
Well....I'd say that there were safer players available, I'm less sure about higher upside. I agree that Tkachuk and Zadina are significantly "safer". Both have flaws in their game, just like Kotkaniemi.

The nice thing, too, is that Kotkaniemi is significantly younger than Zadina and Tkachuk (8 months and 10 months respectively) which pretty much amounts to an entire hockey season.

My pick would've been Tkachuk - at least in part because he's going to be a PITA for us to play against in our own division for the next 12 years...but I totally see why they took Kotkaniemi. I don't think it has anything to do with the media, but everything to do with the absurdly high price tags attached to C's in the trade market and free agency.
 

montreal

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He's got to have 1C upside or there's no way Timmins takes him at 3rd overall. It's not like he didn't have a very impressive year either. We'll see what he does but it's not like Timmins hasn't picked highly skilled players every time he's had a pick inside the top 10. Doubt this is any different.
 
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dackelljuneaubulis02

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He's got to have 1C upside or there's no way Timmins takes him at 3rd overall. It's not like he didn't have a very impressive year either. We'll see what he does but it's not like Timmins hasn't picked highly skilled players every time he's had a pick inside the top 10. Doubt this is any different.

Very knowledgeable people on this board but this myth that we've drafted 'character' over skill during MB's regime is nonsense. 2013 was the only year and it looks like we still have the best guy out of the 2nd round from what I can tell (could be wrong). Especially with the 1st round picks.

Galchenyuk, Scherbak, Sergachev and it's not like Juulsen and Poehling are chopped liver though they're not as sexy as the first 3 picks.
 

Garbageyuk

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such a weird post hahaha.

So you think his absolute ceiling is a #2 C and on top of that it's 'fantastic'?

It's just wrong on so many levels. lol. He does have a #1 ceiling. I'm pretty convinced of that. I'm tempted to say that #2's his floor but he could bottom out as a #3 but I think the chances of that happening are pretty small. He's got too much going for him.
Yes it is fantastic in the sense that the Habs don't even have a legit 2C right now. Our best center is Danault ffs. But like I said, I think there were players with higher upside available.
 

LyricalLyricist

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To me, Kotkaniemi's ceiling is a 2C, if everything goes well. Like a 45-50 point 2-way guy most seasons in his prime, which is fantastic. But he doesn't have 1C potential imo. And he's certainly not the franchise 1C savior that people want. I think he's a safe pick (to be an NHL calibre player), but I just don't like it at 3.

I'm confused, what gives you this opinion anyway?

a 45-50 point guy in his prime?

I will agree he's likely no franchise savior. I don't expect franchise talent, I will be happy with a #1B center.
 

Garbageyuk

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I'm confused, what gives you this opinion anyway?

a 45-50 point guy in his prime?


I will agree he's likely no franchise savior. I don't expect franchise talent, I will be happy with a #1B center.
My viewings of him, and being a hockey fan for 20+ years. Just like anyone else who has an opinion.
 

Garbageyuk

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Incredible how so many people aren't giving the kid a chance. Could he bust? Sure, but the kid isn't even 18 yet. Give him a chance before saying he will never be a top line C.
Saying he doesn't look like he has 1C potential isn't saying he will bust, and it isn't 'not giving him a chance'.
 

Garbageyuk

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He's got to have 1C upside or there's no way Timmins takes him at 3rd overall. It's not like he didn't have a very impressive year either. We'll see what he does but it's not like Timmins hasn't picked highly skilled players every time he's had a pick inside the top 10. Doubt this is any different.

I'm sure Timmins thought David Fischer had 1D potential too, or he wouldn't have taken him over Giroux.
 

montreal

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I'm sure Timmins thought David Fischer had 1D potential too, or he wouldn't have taken him over Giroux.

I'm sure he did, as would many that watched a 6'5 smooth skating blueliner that moved the puck well. The problem is that he didn't work hard enough and he admitted that. But we are talking about a 20th overall pick, not a 3rd overall pick. Look at Timmins picks inside the top 10. Price, Sergachev, Galchenyuk. Each time he got highly skilled players that were among the very best players in the draft. Now maybe this year is different since the 3 to say 10 or 12 were ranked very closely so this year clearly your odds of getting the best at 3 aren't as high as they would be in other years when they aren't so tightly ranked.
 
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Garbageyuk

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I'm sure he did, as would many that watched a 6'5 smooth skating blueliner that moved the puck well. The problem is that he didn't work hard enough and he admitted that. But we are talking about a 20th overall pick, not a 3rd overall pick. Look at Timmins picks inside the top 10. Price, Sergachev, Galchenyuk. Each time he got highly skilled players that were among the very best players in the draft. Now maybe this year is different since the 3 to say 10 or 12 were ranked very closely so this year clearly your odds of getting the best at 3 aren't as high as they would be in other years when they aren't so tightly ranked.

First of all, he's 6'3''. Second, no, I don't think many thought he had 1D potential; he was projected to go in the 2nd and even 3rd round by some scouts and publications. There were red flags from the beginning with that pick, chief among them: he was playing on a high school team.

Back to Kotkaniemi; he was more of a reach than any of those top-10 Habs picks you listed. In fact, the only one who could be considered somewhat of a reach was Price, and look what happened there. Kopitar should have been the pick, not just in hindsight either, lots of people thought so at the time. Reaches usually don't work out, and the team who does it usually gets burned. Scheifele worked out great, but who else lately? The list of unsuccessful reaches is long and sad. Like I said, I think the Habs were influenced by the media with this pick, and this draft as a whole. That's not how you run a franchise. The Habs front office has no idea what they are doing, so excuse me for being skeptical about a reach pick in the top-3.
 

brian70

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I'm sure he did, as would many that watched a 6'5 smooth skating blueliner that moved the puck well. The problem is that he didn't work hard enough and he admitted that. But we are talking about a 20th overall pick, not a 3rd overall pick. Look at Timmins picks inside the top 10. Price, Sergachev, Galchenyuk. Each time he got highly skilled players that were among the very best players in the draft. Now maybe this year is different since the 3 to say 10 or 12 were ranked very closely so this year clearly your odds of getting the best at 3 aren't as high as they would be in other years when they aren't so tightly ranked.
And he did talk a lot about Forsberg before 2012 draft. I guess the diffeence this year is the fact that he was in a position to be criticized no matter what. Pick Zadina or a defenseman and watch Kotkaniemi. a center, come out as the best prospect in a few years; pick Tkachuk and miss out on more raw talent. Zadina would have been a safe pick but it will be interesting to follow Kotkaniemi's progression.
 

TheRocket87

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I think people really need to understand just how impressive Kotkaniemi was in a men's league. Zadina had 2 points in 25 games in a men's league at the same age.

How much did you watch him or are you going by stats alone? I suggest you take a look at these shift by shift videos. I find them very unimpressive and see a struggling teenager trying to survive among pros. I watched 4 out of 5 of these yesterday and I find it hard to spot 3 shifts per game, where his impressive IQ actually shows and he does something impressive. Also the ton of scoring opportunities, he creates for his linemates were completely missing for some reason.


He was very impressive in the U18s, but his play in Liiga throughout the season has me worried.
 
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NotProkofievian

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Nov 29, 2011
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Yes it is fantastic in the sense that the Habs don't even have a legit 2C right now. Our best center is Danault ffs. But like I said, I think there were players with higher upside available.

Sorry, but this is starting to unravel for you. Our best center is Danault ''ffs,'' but you think it's fantastic that we drafted a 45 pt center at best?

You do realise that's basically what Danault is, right? Coming off a 40 pt season, and another ~0.5ppg season.
 

NotProkofievian

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He was very impressive in the U18s, but his play in Liiga throughout the season has me worried.

Who do you think will make up Ässät's top 6 this year? Kotkaniemi will probably play with Kärki again, but you guys are losing Insam, Korhonen, Laganière. Are Rekonen, Tiivola and Juusela meant to replace these guys?
 

The Great Weal

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How much did you watch him or are you going by stats alone? I suggest you take a look at these shift by shift videos. I find them very unimpressive and see a struggling teenager trying to survive among pros. I watched 4 out of 5 of these yesterday and I find it hard to spot 3 shifts per game, where his impressive IQ actually shows and he does something impressive. Also the ton of scoring opportunities, he creates for his linemates were completely missing for some reason.
Going by both of what I seen/read and stats. I have seen them and I don't think it's as unimpressive as you believe they are.
 

Kriss E

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Incredible how so many people aren't giving the kid a chance. Could he bust? Sure, but the kid isn't even 18 yet. Give him a chance before saying he will never be a top line C.
I think there is a big middle area between bust and top line center.
For the most part, the people I have read say he isn't top line material are saying he'll be a 2nd liner. Not exactly what a bust is. I don't think people are saying he will be Yakupov.
 

TheRocket87

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Nov 26, 2010
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Who do you think will make up Ässät's top 6 this year? Kotkaniemi will probably play with Kärki again, but you guys are losing Insam, Korhonen, Laganière. Are Rekonen, Tiivola and Juusela meant to replace these guys?

I meant his play last season has me worried. Him and Kärki are both going to play center so they will be separated. Kotkaniemi will probably be playing with Sakari Salminen, who is one of the best forwards in the league.
 

TheRocket87

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Nov 26, 2010
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Going by both of what I seen/read and stats. I have seen them and I don't think it's as unimpressive as you believe they are.

Ok, so as I am clearly stupid or blind can you point out the impressive or even positive plays he makes in these samples? 3 per game will suffice and shouldn't be too much to ask since elite IQ should be clearly visible in everything a player does.
 

Kriss E

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I think people really need to understand just how impressive Kotkaniemi was in a men's league. Zadina had 2 points in 25 games in a men's league at the same age.
I wish people would stop with comparisons, they are so pointless.
Lehkonen had 30pts in 45gp at the same age. Kotka had 29 in 57gp. Who cares.

Lehk to me is a depth winger, a 6-9 player, yet he did better than Kotka at the same age. It doesn't mean anything. Progression isn't linear and highly dependent of your environment. Just because Zadina put up 2pts doesn't mean Kotka is better, just like it also doesn't mean Lehkonen is better than both those guys.

I think a safe bet is to say Kotka should be a top 2 center. A top line one..? I'm not convinced. I think Galchenyuk showed more promise and he couldn't do it. But as I said, I don't like comparing, so we will see.
Not impossible, but I'd prefer keep my expectations a bit lower at #2 for now.
 

Kaako Kappo

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Ok, so as I am clearly stupid or blind can you point out the impressive or even positive plays he makes in these samples? 3 per game will suffice and shouldn't be too much to ask since elite IQ should be clearly visible in everything a player does.
If being third in points on his team as a 17 year old is him just trying to survive then i really want to see him when he gets comfy... It sounds to me like you dont really know much about youbg players. Do Zadina's highlights impress you more? Even though he is playing agains scrawny kids? Have some perspective.
 
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Kriss E

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I'm not trying to compare them, I'm just saying that it is impressive. What Lekhonen did was insanely impressive as well.
Ya I guess...
Personally, I don't really care unless it translates to the NHL.
So ya, impressive, but it means nothing. Better him producing as he has than putting up 4 pts I suppose.
 

TheRocket87

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If being third in points on his team as a 17 year old is him just trying to survive then i really want to see him when he gets comfy... It sounds to me like you dont really know much about youbg players. Do Zadina's highlights impress you more? Even though he is playing agains scrawny kids? Have some perspective.

I'm not comparing him to Zadina or anyone else.

I get that he has nice stats. I think that's clear for everyone. I watched every single one of his liiga games last season and based on that I have doubts.

Trying to look beyond the stats here. And by the way, a former teammate described Jesperis center like this: a traffic cone would get 30pts playing with him.
 
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