Prospect Info: Welcome to Montréal, Jesperi Kotkaniemi (1st round pick, 3OA 2018 - signed ELC)

[TheBuriedHab]

Not sure why you are getting so damn defensive here. You are talking about a 17 yo who hasn't burnt any league. I mean, ya, that's true. It doesn't mean he can't break the chains next year and completely let loose.

You said he DEFINITELY showed to have the potential of being a top line CENTER.
I thought that was a bit of a reach seeing how he did not play center last season.

Keep in mind that both Koivu and Plekanec were not even considered top line centers here even in their prime (Koivu could have been, perhaps, had he not gotten injured). Galchenyuk, who I think showed more talent and promise than Kotka, couldn't make it either.
So unless a player really shows me some seriously special talent, I'm going to hold off from talking about the top line spot.

Not being defensive just stating the facts from the actual games I've seen of him. I mean if we want to go just off stats Kopitar was less than a .5 ppg in the SEL in his d+1 season. Didn't ever "burn the league". I think with some players there is more value than what the stats present. He may not have the high end skill of a Barkov type player but he's a different player. While doing my best to over hype him and set expectations through the roof, I do think he can become a Kopitar type if everything goes right in his development, could be a huge step in the right direction going forward and I'm extremely excited to see how next year goes for him.

 

[Kriss E]

Not being defensive just stating the facts from the actual games I've seen of him. I mean if we want to go just off stats Kopitar was less than a .5 ppg in the SEL in his d+1 season. Didn't ever "burn the league". I think with some players there is more value than what the stats present. He may not have the high end skill of a Barkov type player but he's a different player. While doing my best to over hype him and set expectations through the roof, I do think he can become a Kopitar type if everything goes right in his development, could be a huge step in the right direction going forward and I'm extremely excited to see how next year goes for him.

That is my point. Draisalt did quite well in his draft year, he really put up some points. But he finished tied 4th. Ahead of him were players that are either not in the NHL or nowhere near his current level.
How many times have we seen players do great at International competitions only to never live up to the hype, heck, some completely disappear off the map.

Kopitar is a 4 time all star, 2 time Selke winner, 2 time cup winner, under 30, I mean...setting the bar a bit low aren't we?
As was pointed out, Lehkonen had more points than him at the same age in the same league. Why aren't people using him as an example? Because it doesn't mean anything right? Precisely.
Kotkaniemi is Kotkaniemi. Not Kopitar. Not Draisalt. Not Lehkonen. Not Koivu.
Let's see how he develops. I'm also excited to see him grow over the years, but as it stands, he's too far away to put any type of definitive marker next to his name.

Fyi, you didn't state a fact, it was an opinion. Him scoring 29pts in 57gp, that's a fact. Him being top line material, that's an opinion.

 

[Kriss E]

Debbie Downer

 

[yianik]

People can blame Chucky for this and that, and not having blah blah. And for this reason they will argue he didn't turn into a centre for us. And you know, those people might be right.

However. There is no way Montreal can possibly say they did everything they could to develop Chucky into a centre.

Defensive short comings ? Should have been returned to junior to work on his D instead of being handed to a coach whose view of his responsibilities did not include developing players.

So now we have another no.3 OA centre. We all know that he could use work on his skating. So what us Montreal going to do about this ? That is my queation. Like right now, what are they going to do ?

I am hoping it will be better then a pat on the back with a " work on your skating kid , and see you next year ".

Any rules prohibiting us from hiring a top and I mean top flight skating coach to work with him ? If no then pay that person $150000 , or whatever it is to do the job of working with him every day. If there is some rule against it then work around it, figure it out. Money is no object, right Geoff ?

Kotkaniemi could disappoint. But if he does I want to be able to see that this team did everything to help him become a top C. No more screw ups.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

That is my point. Draisalt did quite well in his draft year, he really put up some points. But he finished tied 4th. Ahead of him were players that are either not in the NHL or nowhere near his current level.
How many times have we seen players do great at International competitions only to never live up to the hype, heck, some completely disappear off the map.

Kopitar is a 4 time all star, 2 time Selke winner, 2 time cup winner, under 30, I mean...setting the bar a bit low aren't we?
As was pointed out, Lehkonen had more points than him at the same age in the same league. Why aren't people using him as an example? Because it doesn't mean anything right? Precisely.
Kotkaniemi is Kotkaniemi. Not Kopitar. Not Draisalt. Not Lehkonen. Not Koivu.
Let's see how he develops. I'm also excited to see him grow over the years, but as it stands, he's too far away to put any type of definitive marker next to his name.

Fyi, you didn't state a fact, it was an opinion. Him scoring 29pts in 57gp, that's a fact. Him being top line material, that's an opinion.

I dont really understand your point then. You brought up his point totals as a talking point but say point totals dont mean anything. Production should be weighted but not the sole element being analyzed which was my argument from the get go. I don't care that he's a .5 ppg player right now the point totals really dont equate he will be worse than players at a .6 or .7 ppg rate in the future. Hopefully he builds on the momentum he ended the year with and becomes more consistent going into next year.

And what I alluded to was he played first line center and was matched against top lines and produced at the international level which are indeed facts.

Not saying he will become kopitar but in that mold of a strong big 2 way guy that plays on your first line hopefully.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Where's Barkov?

I don't know. I'm not the one who made that graphic. Although Barkov should be first, Laine second, and Kotkaniemi third. In his draft year, Barkov was at 0.91 PPG.

 

[BB88]

People need to accept that it was a ballsy pick and thus will be ciriticized. The easy thing would have been to take Zadina.

Ultimately it's up to Kotkaniemi to prove that it was the right selection.

Reminds of Pettersson pick from last year.

He's got to have 1C upside or there's no way Timmins takes him at 3rd overall. It's not like he didn't have a very impressive year either. We'll see what he does but it's not like Timmins hasn't picked highly skilled players every time he's had a pick inside the top 10. Doubt this is any different.

I've said it before if you ignore skating he has all the skills to become a #1C.

So you have a 17y prospect with skating as his weakness/limitation on that #1C projection, could be worse.
He gets his skating to a different level and there's really nothing limiting #1C potential.

 

[sandviper]

People can blame Chucky for this and that, and not having blah blah. And for this reason they will argue he didn't turn into a centre for us. And you know, those people might be right.

However. There is no way Montreal can possibly say they did everything they could to develop Chucky into a centre.

Defensive short comings ? Should have been returned to junior to work on his D instead of being handed to a coach whose view of his responsibilities did not include developing players.

So now we have another no.3 OA centre. We all know that he could use work on his skating. So what us Montreal going to do about this ? That is my queation. Like right now, what are they going to do ?

I am hoping it will be better then a pat on the back with a " work on your skating kid , and see you next year ".

Any rules prohibiting us from hiring a top and I mean top flight skating coach to work with him ? If no then pay that person $150000 , or whatever it is to do the job of working with him every day. If there is some rule against it then work around it, figure it out. Money is no object, right Geoff ?

Kotkaniemi could disappoint. But if he does I want to be able to see that this team did everything to help him become a top C. No more screw ups.

Just comparing him against his peers, Kotkaniemi isn't a Foudy, Hughes or Boqvist when it comes to skating. That I don't think is up for debate. I will also maintain his skating isn't that bad, surely not bad enough to keep him from the next level.

I mentioned this earlier, but he had an ACL injury last year which he did play through as he recovered (ACL injury was 100% true, the playing through recovery I am about 90% sure about reading somewhere).

Again, he's not an elite skater, but during the U18s, he looked MUCH better technically, basically the end of his year.

Anyhow, not denying he could use improvement. Any player should want to always improve, especially if they have aspirations of being elite. He's still 17 as of today, so he is young enough to still develop physically and technically.

FWIW, there is no "rule" saying we can't invest a million dollars on an Olympic skating coach to live with Kotkaniemi and train him every day. That is obviously an extreme example, but they are allowed.

 

[Kriss E]

I dont really understand your point then. You brought up his point totals as a talking point but say point totals dont mean anything. Production should be weighted but not the sole element being analyzed which was my argument from the get go. I don't care that he's a .5 ppg player right now the point totals really dont equate he will be worse than players at a .6 or .7 ppg rate in the future. Hopefully he builds on the momentum he ended the year with and becomes more consistent going into next year.

And what I alluded to was he played first line center and was matched against top lines and produced at the international level which are indeed facts.

Not saying he will become kopitar but in that mold of a strong big 2 way guy that plays on your first line hopefully.

Yes he produced at the U18 tournaments.
My issue was with what I bolded out of your post. You said he's definitely a top center potential, which I found rather bizarre to say when he's mostly played wing.
Let's wait to see how he does next season as a center before saying that no? But hey, it's just a hockey board, you can say he's going to be as good as Draisalt too if you want.

I just found it ironic how he played wing.

 

[TheBuriedHab]

Just comparing him against his peers, Kotkaniemi isn't a Foudy, Hughes or Boqvist when it comes to skating. That I don't think is up for debate. I will also maintain his skating isn't that bad, surely not bad enough to keep him from the next level.

I mentioned this earlier, but he had an ACL injury last year which he did play through as he recovered (ACL injury was 100% true, the playing through recovery I am about 90% sure about reading somewhere).

Again, he's not an elite skater, but during the U18s, he looked MUCH better technically, basically the end of his year.

Anyhow, not denying he could use improvement. Any player should want to always improve, especially if they have aspirations of being elite. He's still 17 as of today, so he is young enough to still develop physically and technically.

FWIW, there is no "rule" saying we can't invest a million dollars on an Olympic skating coach to live with Kotkaniemi and train him every day. That is obviously an extreme example, but they are allowed.

Yup skating isn't terrible like Barkov when he was younger but still it can he improved ALOT. His balance and pivoting for me need the most attention. Barkov took huge leaps with his skating but that comes with proper training and hard work over years. It will be up to him and our staff to put in the work. These type of things can definitely affect a players development.

 

[sandviper]

Yup skating isn't terrible like Barkov when he was younger but still it can he improved ALOT. His balance and pivoting for me need the most attention. Barkov took huge leaps with his skating but that comes with proper training and hard work over years. It will be up to him and our staff to put in the work. These type of things can definitely affect a players development.

Agreed. It's really up to him in the end. I'm sure the Habs' scouting and training staff recognize he needs work here. I'm sure his own dad probably knows this also, though I don't think they have the staff to dedicate to work solely on skating.

Dedicated skating instruction asides, his balance I think will come as he fills into his frame and develops his strength. The pivoting I hope will improve as he spends more time at center which will force him to be more of a "skater" out there during his shifts compared to playing wing.

Yes he produced at the U18 tournaments.
My issue was with what I bolded out of your post. You said he's definitely a top center potential, which I found rather bizarre to say when he's mostly played wing.
Let's wait to see how he does next season as a center before saying that no? But hey, it's just a hockey board, you can say he's going to be as good as Draisalt too if you want.

I just found it ironic how he played wing.

While he did play mostly wing in Liiga, he was a center almost exclusively against his own peer group. I would assume they will do as they say and play him at center full time this year.

Whether he ever develops into a Barkov/Kopitar/Draisaitl or beyond, who knows? To me, based on the rest of his skill set, if Kotkaneimi doesn't become Barkov, he can be the next Lehkonen with better offensive IQ.

 

[FerrisRox]

I don't think many thought he had 1D potential; he was projected to go in the 2nd and even 3rd round by some scouts and publications.

You are just compulsive.

Fischer was projected to go in the third round by some publications?

Really?

Care to cite even one single source that had him projected as a third rounder?

Go ahead, we'll wait.

 

[Kriss E]

While he did play mostly wing in Liiga, he was a center almost exclusively against his own peer group. I would assume they will do as they say and play him at center full time this year.

Whether he ever develops into a Barkov/Kopitar/Draisaitl or beyond, who knows? To me, based on the rest of his skill set, if Kotkaneimi doesn't become Barkov, he can be the next Lehkonen with better offensive IQ.

Well that kinda was my point. We are so far removed from knowing what this kid will actually end up being. I find the comparison comical.

 

[Garbageyuk]

You are just compulsive.

Fischer was projected to go in the third round by some publications?

Really?

Care to cite even one single source that had him projected as a third rounder?

Go ahead, we'll wait.

lol, it's hard to find anything about David Fischer these days. Nobody remembers who he is.

 

[Mrb1p]

Yes he produced at the U18 tournaments.
My issue was with what I bolded out of your post. You said he's definitely a top center potential, which I found rather bizarre to say when he's mostly played wing.
Let's wait to see how he does next season as a center before saying that no? But hey, it's just a hockey board, you can say he's going to be as good as Draisalt too if you want.

I just found it ironic how he played wing.

What has he showed to say hes not that? Hes dominated his peers any time he was at center ice.

 

[sandviper]

lol, it's hard to find anything about David Fischer these days. Nobody remembers who he is.

FWIW, The Hockey News had him ranked #25.

 

[Kriss E]

What has he showed to say hes not that? Hes dominated his peers any time he was at center ice.

His skating for one is obviously lacking. Outside of that, I haven't watched enough to breakdown his game. But even in highlight reels, his skating appears to be quite mediocre.

 

[Andrei79]

FWIW, The Hockey News had him ranked #25.

Woodlief,just before the draft, mentioned there was a good chance he'd go late first. Said there were many teams intrigued with his potential.

 

[schnapshot]

His skating for one is obviously lacking. Outside of that, I haven't watched enough to breakdown his game. But even in highlight reels, his skating appears to be quite mediocre.

It’s not, really. His technique needs work but his top speed is just fine.

You couple an improved technique with his shot, vision, IQ, size and willingness and you got yourself a player.

 

[HBDay]

He can deke well it looks, and it looks as though that would improve. His short side top corner shot is special, that will be a dangerous weapon in the NHL. But the best thing about this player and I don't want to sound cliche but it really is his smarts. He is a smart player, follows up on shots finds open ice and plays hard on the forecheck and backcheck - once he gets the puck on the back check it doesn't take long for him to make a play transitioning to offence.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Reminds of Pettersson pick from last year.



I've said it before if you ignore skating he has all the skills to become a #1C.

So you have a 17y prospect with skating as his weakness/limitation on that #1C projection, could be worse.
He gets his skating to a different level and there's really nothing limiting #1C potential.

I think we all hope he's viewed as a Petersson in a year.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Sad, you can't have an opinion here without getting lynched. Everybody who has a problem with what I'm saying about Kotkaniemi needs to go back and look at my first post in this thread. It was seriously so tame lol. I said I like Kotkaniemi, I've watched him, but to me he looks like his ceiling is a 2C. What's the problem? It's an opinion many people, including scouts, share. Timmins obviously feels different, but he has been wrong many times before. Like I said, we'll see. I hope he does become a 1C, but don't count on it.

 

[Laurentide]

People can blame Chucky for this and that, and not having blah blah. And for this reason they will argue he didn't turn into a centre for us. And you know, those people might be right.

However. There is no way Montreal can possibly say they did everything they could to develop Chucky into a centre.

Defensive short comings ? Should have been returned to junior to work on his D instead of being handed to a coach whose view of his responsibilities did not include developing players.

So now we have another no.3 OA centre. We all know that he could use work on his skating. So what us Montreal going to do about this ? That is my queation. Like right now, what are they going to do ?

I am hoping it will be better then a pat on the back with a " work on your skating kid , and see you next year ".

Any rules prohibiting us from hiring a top and I mean top flight skating coach to work with him ? If no then pay that person $150000 , or whatever it is to do the job of working with him every day. If there is some rule against it then work around it, figure it out. Money is no object, right Geoff ?

Kotkaniemi could disappoint. But if he does I want to be able to see that this team did everything to help him become a top C. No more screw ups.

The Habs didn't do much of anything to develop Galchenyuk, really. As a 3rd overall pick, they expected him to be a finished product right out of the chute. Ideally, he should have gone back to junior or to the AHL for at least a season but in Montreal, the future is always "now". He showed some natural ability and they decided that this was enough. So they rushed him into the NHL and they got the results they got. I don't even really blame Therrien here because, at the end of the day, he's coaching the NHL roster and trying to win games. It quite frankly isn't his job to develop players. That's what assistants and AHL/ECHL coaches are for. Once they make it to the big club, they're supposed to know how to play. All the coach does then is put them in positions where their best attributes can be used to the greatest effect. Because Galchenyuk never learned how to properly play center, he was not permitted to play there. And because he never got any better over time he stayed on the wing.

I expect that the same fate awaits Kotkaniemi. At his age, he shouldn't be anywhere near good enough to crack an NHL roster. But if he impresses enough at camp there will be a faction pushing for him to be in the line-up and as soon as management thinks he's "good enough" he too will be rushed into the NHL. I just hope he's a fast learner because once he's on the big club, Julien or whoever is coaching him won't have the time or the inclination to teach him anything.

 

[Saxon]

Sad, you can't have an opinion here without getting lynched. Everybody who has a problem with what I'm saying about Kotkaniemi needs to go back and look at my first post in this thread. It was seriously so tame lol. I said I like Kotkaniemi, I've watched him, but to me he looks like his ceiling is a 2C. What's the problem? It's an opinion many people, including scouts, share. Timmins obviously feels different, but he has been wrong many times before. Like I said, we'll see. I hope he does become a 1C, but don't count on it.

Who said you can't have an opinion? You voiced an opinion on a DISCUSSION board and it's being challenged..... That's kinda the point.

 

[YukonCornelius 5thOA]

His Carey Price like disposition might be his most underrated attribute as it’s going to serve him well in Montreal.