Welcome to (failed) TED Talk - TED is dead.

[Coyotedroppings]

Meruelo was supposed to be given the keys for a $2 billion development but spent less than what a studio condo in Tempe is worth to secure said development. This falls squarely on him. Pay attention to what people do, not what they say (especially billionaires pretending to be your friend).

If he actually closes a deal then praise can be sung but I'm completely out of patience with this group.

Yep, what they do and not what they say. This is why I have been critical of these “asshats” as I’ve called them. My criticism has often been maligned here…. Ahem, TL.
Having said that, I have no problem with our beloved, fact posting member and wish the asshats would have convinced him to run their campaign!

Th

This. I work across the highway from that stupid ass f***in landfill. Only time I'll be going that way will be to work or visit one of y'all. (What up @Grimes my dude!)

I'll take their money. They will get nothing from me in return. Not even gas. Tempe 1st, Tempe voters who don't support our Yotes... They're dead to me.

I get principle and all, but it won’t make a dent. I ate at Westgate yesterday.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

You have four months to sign Maccelli and McBain, who likely want to know if there is a legitimate concrete plan to stay here and make it their home

IDK, when I was that age, I wouldn’t have given a rip. I would have just been glad to be in the show.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I'm hopeful, but also, I'm kinda just like, ok prove it. Talk is cheap. I want action. Press conferences in an open field. Shovels hitting ground. Black Keys Howling for You playing in the background.

Yeah?
I was at the groundbreaking in Glendale, it was exciting, but here we are.

 

[Nowotny]

Yep, this thing can move very quickly. And just because they said they are playing in Mullett for another year doesn't mean that that will be the case.

I think the email from XG + statement by Bettman are tactics to settle the fan base down, and player parents like Keller's dad lol. But I also believe they arent done here...yet.

I could see Bettman calling up AM after that vote and telling them what the options are. Get it done in Phoenix within X amount of days or we will have to sell at a discounted price. AM and Bettman don't want to sell lower than they could, so there is motivation to get Plan B resolved soon.

Just my take on the situation



And the league is getting desperate. He could be in luck.

I doubt they would play in Mullet Arena another year after announcing relocation (and they will have to announce it...I don't think "there is nothing to see here,just keep buying $200 tickets" would work).It would be not only be a financial disaster but it would further damage their already bad image.

 

[PainForShane]

Yep, this thing can move very quickly. And just because they said they are playing in Mullett for another year doesn't mean that that will be the case.

I think the email from XG + statement by Bettman are tactics to settle the fan base down, and player parents like Keller's dad lol. But I also believe they arent done here...yet.

I could see Bettman calling up AM after that vote and telling them what the options are. Get it done in Phoenix within X amount of days or we will have to sell at a discounted price. AM and Bettman don't want to sell lower than they could, so there is motivation to get Plan B resolved soon.

Just my take on the situation



And the league is getting desperate. He could be in luck.

100%.

No one here is considering the other owners. The only reason we've been able to stay in AZ so long is because none of the other owners really cared one way or another (revenue in AZ was not that much worse than all the other small market teams). So Bettman's like, "hey Phx is a growth market," and you see teams like Dallas, Vegas etc so why not Phx, you have a team there anyway why not see what you can do.

Then Meruelo buys the team and he's like, "hey this Glendale thing will never work bye bye Glendale" in hindsight it's obvious but at the time the other owners must've been like... 'ok we've been in Glendale almost 20 years this is an odd development (incl when the League ran the team)' then Mereulo moves the Yotes into a 5,000 seat stadium and it's like... 'huh?'

You can pass that off by saying you're only playing in Mullett for a few years... but now the big TED is no more. And obvi Mullett is clearly not sustainable long term from a gate revenue perspective due to lack of seats.

***

So if I'm another owner (ie of any other team), I'm saying to Gary some version of 'look this Meruelo guy needs an arena plan, if he doesn't have one either make him relocate or sell the team to someone who will. In the meantime I don't think he deserves rev share bc he's the idiot who decided to burn his lease with Glendale so he could move into that 5K seat arena'

None of this has to do with the Tempe vote failing or the Strang article or the numerous times Meruelo didn't pay his bills on time (incl player bonuses, GRA rent / tax etc). I mean, obvi none of those help. But from a pure business perspective, the team needs gate revenue (ie an arena) and if Meruelo couldn't get such a favorable deal across the line (keep in mind CGY and OTT are both going through they are objectively worse deals for the citizens), then what good is he.

***

TLDR from the other owners' perspectives, imo Meruelo, XG, anyone affiliated w Yotes ownership now needs to get a deal done or at least announce something very quickly (or sell / move the team) because Mullet's lack of gate rev impacts the league. Also, from another owner perspective I think Yotes ownership group has at least burned any goodwill they might've once had and likely much worse than that, so I have much less patience / faith in them than I did a few years ago when they initially moved out of GRA

 

[Coyotedroppings]

This confirms it. There was no Plan B. Whatever they're gonna call Plan B is going to be a jury-rigged last ditch mess.

I'm starting to think maybe Katie Strang might have been right, and just typing that infuriates me to no end.

Yep, asshats. I think Meruelo’s biggest mistake is XG.

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

You live here, and you're saying that. Really? Even a shitty hockey team is NHL hockey that I can see without traveling. It can drag on forever as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, I'm tired of it. Put 'em somewhere that improves the league and stops the endless gong show stuff with this franchise. I can drive the 5 hours to L.A. and catch whatever team I want twice on their west coast swing. I'd prefer that than dumping any more of my money into this tire fire.

I think it’s:

1. Plan B (Scottsdale)
2. Salt Lake City
3. Houston (owner balks at price)
4. KC (owner balks at price)
5. QC (too East, lack of $, small market)
6. Portland (realignment, is there an owner?)

Everywhere else has too many questions especially a lack of an arena.

If there was a place in Scottsdale that would welcome the team, it would have been done already.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I’m not reading that way…

What they considered as a plan B was whatever site they were negotiating along with Tempe was still there and it’s being pulled out of mothballs.

I know I could be wrong but that’s how I’m reading it. But I certainly don’t fault anyone for seeing the opposite.

I get that and we’ll see. iirc (which we know is a challenge ), Plan B was going to be u and running faster than TED.

 

[TheLegend]

I guess right now I'm very cynical about Meruelo because, in hindsight, I invested a lot of hope and trust in him. In another thread, someone on this forum said something like, "If a guy gets this rich, he's gotta be smart," and while I don't believe that there is necessarily any fundamental correlation between wealth and intelligence, in this context I was really hoping it'd be true.

But man, if Meruelo was capable of faceplanting with a deal as good as the TED was - an absolute slam-dunk win-win for anyone who ever bothered to do the due diligence on it - then that retroactively calls everything else he's done into question for me. I mean, there are mistakes, and then there are MISTAKES, and you'd expect someone successful in business to be smart enough to avoid the latter - or at least employ a team that could function as the smart people to offset their personal idiocy.

I'm just so downhearted that we finally had The Guy, but now the evidence is starting to indicate that he isn't that much of an upgrade over The Other Guys.

The problem with that is.... when it comes to politics (especially in Arizona, and today's climate) you can't make assumptions and I believe this was what did him in.

His campaign was based on "give them all the facts and they will see how great this deal can be for everyone."

In a normal climate this would be enough. Not anymore. TempeWins was lead by a local real estate agent. While that's good for selling the real estate end and lining up a lot of big hitters in the endorsement column. It doesn't have much to counter the dirty side of politicking.

Tempe1st was run by a politician and hired political hitman. They were well equipped to get down and dirty and go "there". Do anything to scare the hell out of voters in thinking Meruelo is nothing more than the devil's advocate himself. Didn't matter if they told to truth or not. Any opportunity they could exploit as Meruelo evil they took it. Kuby constantly exploited the "big bully billionaire trying to silence us poor little locals" narrative. She and her sidekick trolled Meruelo and when he responded she twisted it to fit right into that.

They also had a huge advantage in being residents of Tempe and knowing exactly who to target. The NIMBYs of South Tempe. People who would have no reason to go to TED, and thus, "why should I approve something I'm never going to use and it'll cost me money." Virtually every senior they interviewed bought into that.

Nevermind they will end up paying to clean that landfill up. Tempe1st made sure they left that little detail out.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Laugh if you want. But Gutierrez said before the vote that they had a concrete Plan B that would be a fast build on a nearly-as-good plot of land. Now this. They have nothing ready. Nothing concrete. They were blowing smoke up our skirts.

Maybe they do figure something out eventually. But take everything they tell us with a house-sized salt lick.



If they really had had the Plan B ready like they claimed, they'd have released even vague details about it IMMEDIATELY after the vote failed. They'd have been ready to go with it as a contingency, no matter how brazenly confident they were about the TED passing.

Look, my trust has been burned out of me through hard experience. If you guys need to grasp at whatever straws you can find, there's no way I can blame you. Ten years ago, I would have been doing the exact same thing. I know better now.

You’re catching on!
That’s not to say that there is definitely no Plan B, but I have never thought there was and there are a myriad of reasons why it couldn’t be revealed, or even hinted at immediately.
As for his rhetoric prior to the vote, I think this asshat may have been naive enough to think that somehow put pressure on Tempe…. Vote it for, or someone else gets the wonderment of the Meruelo group!

 

[StreetHawk]

If there was a place in Scottsdale that would welcome the team, it would have been done already.

Is there a site in Scottsdale that would be viable? If there was, the Coyotes should have already purchased it and got the arena going. Unless a stand alone arena can't work and they require an Entertainment District?

Seems like that has been an underlying theme over these 3 decades. Owners of the team had other business interests in mind, rather than just the hockey team. And placed those interests above the team.

Would you require an Entertainment District if the Suns/Coyotes played out of the same arena since you get 90 home dates just from them. The other 100-150 would come from concerts, figure skating, conventions, speaking engagements, etc. But, not having those 45 dates, plus competing with not just PHX but Glendale for those other events, probably makes a stand alone arena a less viable option.

 

[TheLegend]

I get that and we’ll see. iirc (which we know is a challenge ), Plan B was going to be u and running faster than TED.

Yup.... no landfill to clean up. The NIMBYs get to pay for that now in 3-4 years. That's when the realization sets in that Kuby and her hired gun lied to them about it and will be too embarrassed to admit they should have looked at this project closer.... or be too defiant to admit it.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I don't like that Marchese guy but did get a lot of info from Craig today, as I wrote he seemed frustrated and angry with Coyote's Ownership.

He was prime to vent.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

grapsing at straws....this is all superficial. They have to say these things, and act like there's hope.

Move along. So, will it be Houston or Salt Lake City?

Thought you were leaving…. taking a break?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I wish the Coyotes "fans" on here would make up their mind. If you think AM is a joke, shyster, blew it, wants to sell, move the team, no hope to stay, then why are you still here? You are a mirror of what you complain about on other boards.

Craig Morgan and PHNX are a joke too. Morgan is bitter because his own job is at stake and so he vents toward the same people who are conduits to him having a job in the first place. They had XG on so many times and this is his thanks. I watched the video and can't believe the vitriol coming from PHNX. Now Morgan is changing his tune and probably wanting XG to return to his show....well at least until there is no plan B or C.

I hold out hope until NHL says the team is leaving. Until then, I'm going to keep giving them "two weeks." I hope the real fans do too.

I think most were fans long before the asshats got here and probably don’t want to wear knee pads!

 

[TheLegend]

He was prime to vent.

He was absolutely pissed at Kuby. He voted for her when she ran for the corporation commission seat.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The problem with that is.... when it comes to politics (especially in Arizona, and today's climate) you can't make assumptions and I believe this was what did him in.

His campaign was based on "give them all the facts and they will see how great this deal can be for everyone."

In a normal climate this would be enough. Not anymore. TempeWins was lead by a local real estate agent. While that's good for selling the real estate end and lining up a lot of big hitters in the endorsement column. It doesn't have much to counter the dirty side of politicking.

Tempe1st was run by a politician and hired political hitman. They were well equipped to get down and dirty and go "there". Do anything to scare the hell out of voters in thinking Meruelo is nothing more than the devil's advocate himself. Didn't matter if they told to truth or not. Any opportunity they could exploit as Meruelo evil they took it. Kuby constantly exploited the "big bully billionaire trying to silence us poor little locals" narrative. She and her sidekick trolled Meruelo and when he responded she twisted it to fit right into that.

They also had a huge advantage in being residents of Tempe and knowing exactly who to target. The NIMBYs of South Tempe. People who would have no reason to go to TED, and thus, "why should I approve something I'm never going to use and it'll cost me money." Virtually every senior they interviewed bought into that.

Nevermind they will end up paying to clean that landfill up. Tempe1st made sure they left that little detail out.

Trouble is, they didn’t push hard on the facts of the deal until it was too late.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

That’s not to say that there is definitely no Plan B...

ESPN quoted a Coyotes source as saying there is no Plan B for a long-term solution in Arizona. So there's that.

 

[TheLegend]

Yep, asshats. I think Meruelo’s biggest mistake is XG.

Nyah.... TED doesn't even get to the RFP without XG.

Their biggest mistake was whomever their political advisors were.

 

[Sm00chy]

ESPN quoted a Coyotes source as saying there is no Plan B for a long-term solution in Arizona. So there's that.

And Craig says there is… it’s all speculation and people wanting clicks. How are some of you not immune to these rumors by now? Lol.

I gave up on the emotional investment into the off ice stuff a couple seasons back. Suggest others do the same.

I hope they stay and if they don’t… I’ll be a fan free agent and I’ll pick another team to follow

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Trouble is, they didn’t push hard on the facts of the deal until it was too late.

Wasn't so much the lack of push, as the lack of point-by-point rebuttal in the media and the community to every allegation and misleading statement from Tempe 1st, couched in language that a 4th grader could understand.

To wit: explain the GPLET as a Shark Tank-style royalty deal that takes profits from sales and repays an investor's original investment until the debt is paid off. Get a map of the proposed development and highlight the areas that had a 30-year GPLET and the areas that only had a 5-year one. Then have documented evidence that Lauren Kuby herself backed ridiculous GPLETs for other Tempe businesses over her career; put it right next to her quote about benefits for billionaires.

Tempe NIMBYs don't know Meruelo, but I bet you a buck that they watch f***ing Shark Tank.

Maybe Gutierrez thought that engaging directly with the opposition was beneath him and that the benefits of the deal were self-evident, but he would never go into an investment meeting for Meruelo's other businesses as unprepared as he was for this vote. To me, that presents a choice of two very worrying implications - either a) Meruelo isn't taking the hockey side as seriously as he takes his other businesses, or b) this is actually the way that Meruelo does business in general. I don't know about you, but I can't figure out which of those two scares me more.

 

[TheLegend]

Trouble is, they didn’t push hard on the facts of the deal until it was too late.

True. They also should have realized that Tempe1st wasn't going to play nice and underestimated how entrenched they were.

In hockey terms they pulled a Rick Tocchet.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

And Craig says there is… it’s all speculation and people wanting clicks. How are some of you not immune to these rumors by now? Lol.

God bless Craig, but he's been Meruelo's default PR patsy for a while now. Hell, PHNX was basically Bluebird's PR firm for the TED vote. So Craig, IMO, is saying what the team wants him to say, not actually reporting on fact. And I can't fault him too much for that, because in his situation he's constrained by his access or lack of it, so doing anything else would cripple his business.

 

[rt]

Why the hell is everyone pissing on the Coyote's. Could they have done things better or differently? That would be a yes, and the Coyote's would agree. But that is hindsight, and it's easy to look back and criticize, but this was a landslide loss. Blame the younger demographic who did not vote. Looks like they didn't care. Shame the old who did vote but listen to lies to decide instead of doing just a bit of research on the deal. Clowns? That would be most on this forum spouting off because they feel hurt the out come was not what you wanted. Meruelo is far from a clown.

I, for one, was criticizing them the entire time. Starting on February 4th when Randy Keating made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and I started stalking their Google and Meta spend and was alarmed all along by what seemed like absolutely negligent advertising mismanagement. I’ve been harping on it here for three months.

You want that younger demographic? Digital is the way. They ignored digital completely. I’ve spent significantly more promoting a summer tutoring program at a single college campus. I’ve spent more promoting a student run coffee shop. I’ve spent more promoting a new school mascot.

Yes it was a landslide victory. But the margin ended up being less than 5,000 votes. That’s it. 5,000 people. That’s nothing.

 

[Coyotes19c]

Yup.... no landfill to clean up. The NIMBYs get to pay for that now in 3-4 years. That's when the realization sets in that Kuby and her hired gun lied to them about it and will be too embarrassed to admit they should have looked at this project closer.... or be too defiant to admit it.

Let’s be honest here, sadly a lot of them will be dead in 5 years.