Welcome to (failed) TED Talk - TED is dead.

[Coyotedroppings]

ESPN quoted a Coyotes source as saying there is no Plan B for a long-term solution in Arizona. So there's that.

I don’t put much stock in ESPN’s coverage.

Nyah.... TED doesn't even get to the RFP without XG.

Their biggest mistake was whomever their political advisors were.

Would depend on XG’s role in that. Hell ot appears they did not even seek political advice!

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Is there a site in Scottsdale that would be viable? If there was, the Coyotes should have already purchased it and got the arena going. Unless a stand alone arena can't work and they require an Entertainment District?

Wellll, this was probably mentioned (by me, if not someone else) in the megathread, but the original idea from 20+ years ago, then called Los Arcos and now SkySong at McDowell and Scottsdale Road, was a site that would have worked had it been given the chance.

I really can't think of a site viable within Scottsdale currently. However, as others will attest, the eastern boundary of scottsdale is the Salt River Indian Reservation, there's a freeway already there running along that boundary, and a number of sites that would be good candidates.

Would you require an Entertainment District if the Suns/Coyotes played out of the same arena since you get 90 home dates just from them. The other 100-150 would come from concerts, figure skating, conventions, speaking engagements, etc. But, not having those 45 dates, plus competing with not just PHX but Glendale for those other events, probably makes a stand alone arena a less viable option.

Yeah, between the new Suns owner being persuaded to go along and their newly renovated arena having to be renovated again to work, although yes it would be nice to have an NBA/NHL arena like Dallas, Philly, LA, etc...ain't happening here, unfortunately.

 

[rt]

What happened to the drive in theater idea? Didn’t that get developed into something that failed? That’s technically reservation land, right? That’s an extremely excellent location in terms of freeway access and proximity to a bunch of amenities.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Wasn't so much the lack of push, as the lack of point-by-point rebuttal in the media and the community to every allegation and misleading statement from Tempe 1st, couched in language that a 4th grader could understand.

To wit: explain the GPLET as a Shark Tank-style royalty deal that takes profits from sales and repays an investor's original investment until the debt is paid off. Get a map of the proposed development and highlight the areas that had a 30-year GPLET and the areas that only had a 5-year one. Then have documented evidence that Lauren Kuby herself backed ridiculous GPLETs for other Tempe businesses over her career; put it right next to her quote about benefits for billionaires.

Tempe NIMBYs don't know Meruelo, but I bet you a buck that they watch f***ing Shark Tank.

Maybe Gutierrez thought that engaging directly with the opposition was beneath him and that the benefits of the deal were self-evident, but he would never go into an investment meeting for Meruelo's other businesses as unprepared as he was for this vote. To me, that presents a choice of two very worrying implications - either a) Meruelo isn't taking the hockey side as seriously as he takes his other businesses, or b) this is actually the way that Meruelo does business in general. I don't know about you, but I can't figure out which of those two scares me more.

Hey, you’re preaching to the choir here, but they should have done that on the offense, I like a strong forecheck over the trap! But yeah, we all have to read and react, both on the ice and in life and if none of this occurred to them, they needed to react MUCH better!

 

[AZviaNJ]

I don’t put much stock in ESPN’s coverage.


Would depend on XG’s role in that. Hell ot appears they did not even seek political advice!

Unnamed Coyote source….that could be someone from f40!

 

[Puck possession wins]

I said it once, and I’ll say it again; this franchise will not have an arena built on Tribe land, unless there is some serious legal wrangling completed.

Fiesta Mall Site or bust

 

[MayDayMayDay]

I get principle and all, but it won’t make a dent. I ate at Westgate yesterday.

Principle is the exact reason I ain't worried about making a dent bro. Least I'll sleep better lol.

 

[Nowotny]

The problem with that is.... when it comes to politics (especially in Arizona, and today's climate) you can't make assumptions and I believe this was what did him in.

His campaign was based on "give them all the facts and they will see how great this deal can be for everyone."

In a normal climate this would be enough. Not anymore. TempeWins was lead by a local real estate agent. While that's good for selling the real estate end and lining up a lot of big hitters in the endorsement column. It doesn't have much to counter the dirty side of politicking.

Tempe1st was run by a politician and hired political hitman. They were well equipped to get down and dirty and go "there". Do anything to scare the hell out of voters in thinking Meruelo is nothing more than the devil's advocate himself. Didn't matter if they told to truth or not. Any opportunity they could exploit as Meruelo evil they took it. Kuby constantly exploited the "big bully billionaire trying to silence us poor little locals" narrative. She and her sidekick trolled Meruelo and when he responded she twisted it to fit right into that.

They also had a huge advantage in being residents of Tempe and knowing exactly who to target. The NIMBYs of South Tempe. People who would have no reason to go to TED, and thus, "why should I approve something I'm never going to use and it'll cost me money." Virtually every senior they interviewed bought into that.

Nevermind they will end up paying to clean that landfill up. Tempe1st made sure they left that little detail out.

Great summary.I personally refuse to believe that somebody who was willing to make a 1B+ investment would be so naive (or inept) not to run competent and extensive campaign to sell it to voters in Tempe.Self made billionaires are usually not naive or inept.Something must have changed.We will find out sooner or later what that SOMETHING was.

 

[TheLegend]

Plots are thickening....

Seems Phoenix is interested......

Can Phoenix be home to the Coyotes? What City Council members are saying

After Tempe residents resoundingly rejected a hockey arena to house the Coyotes, questions are swirling about where the team might go next.

www.azcentral.com

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I really can't think of a site viable within Scottsdale currently. However, as others will attest, the eastern boundary of scottsdale is the Salt River Indian Reservation, there's a freeway already there running along that boundary, and a number of sites that would be good candidates.

Actually, now that I look at it, I never considered where 101 starts curving west - from Bell Road to Scottsdale Road. I don't know what's planned for that area now, but it's pretty barren and still in Scottsdale proper, although it's far enough out that you start running into "not really centrally located" problems

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I really can't think of a site viable within Scottsdale currently. However, as others will attest, the eastern boundary of scottsdale is the Salt River Indian Reservation, there's a freeway already there running along that boundary, and a number of sites that would be good candidates.

Yeah, the reservation is the only land near Scottsdale that might be available and accessible.

What happened to the drive in theater idea? Didn’t that get developed into something that failed? That’s technically reservation land, right? That’s an extremely excellent location in terms of freeway access and proximity to a bunch of amenities.

I thought the drive-in theater idea was the plat of land by where Big Surf used to be. Was that reservation land? (I do vaguely remember an Ak-Sar-Ben smoke shop on the corner by the drive-in when I was in high school.)

I said it once, and I’ll say it again; this franchise will not have an arena built on Tribe land, unless there is some serious legal wrangling completed.

Fiesta Mall Site or bust

You think Tempe was a hard sell... another few months and a future proposition election loss is not something I'm keen on waiting for.

Plots are thickening....

Seems Phoenix is interested......

Can Phoenix be home to the Coyotes? What City Council members are saying

After Tempe residents resoundingly rejected a hockey arena to house the Coyotes, questions are swirling about where the team might go next.

www.azcentral.com

I guess that'd be one way for the lawsuit to go away... But man, I don't think Phoenix wants to add more new taxes, and I don't think Meruelo wants to pay rent to Ishbia.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I thought the drive-in theater idea was the plat of land by where Big Surf used to be. Was that reservation land? (I do vaguely remember an Ak-Sar-Ben smoke shop on the corner by the drive-in when I was in high school.)

Drive-in was on the east side of Hayden/McClintock. We used to sit in the parking lot at Oceanside rink (so named because it was next to Big Surf, it took me years to realize) and try to figure out what was playing after our games. And yes it's on the res.

(Big Surf, Oceanside, and the FedEx center are/were on the west side)

 

[Puck possession wins]

Plots are thickening....

Seems Phoenix is interested......

Can Phoenix be home to the Coyotes? What City Council members are saying

After Tempe residents resoundingly rejected a hockey arena to house the Coyotes, questions are swirling about where the team might go next.

www.azcentral.com

Set aside the entire arena needing to be renovated for that to happen, why would AM want to go be a tenant in someone else’s building? Especially one which has a sportsbook already.

Don’t get me wrong, I think all of us would want them back downtown (it’s where they belong), but I can’t feasibly see it happen.

This is the same issue with Tribe Land. Unless there’s some complex legal deal, i don’t think this happens.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Rangers fan here coming in peace. I have been trying to read up the situation the last few days and was actually discussing with a friend. One thing we were wondering is if the other pro teams in the market also have a lot of trouble with getting their arena/stadiums built. I know the Cards played at ASU for a while before they got the stadium. Suns got their new arena in early 90s, DBacks in late 90s. Were those stadiums all a political hassle? If not, what has changed or is it just the interest in the Cards, Dbacks, Suns is just higher?

 

[MayDayMayDay]

FFS. Where can AM go to just buy the land and do whatever the f*** he wants with it without anyone else getting a say? This is Arizona, what happened to live and let live? Lol

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Rangers fan here coming in peace. I have been trying to read up the situation the last few days and was actually discussing with a friend. One thing we were wondering is if the other pro teams in the market also have a lot of trouble with getting their arena/stadiums built. I know the Cards played at ASU for a while before they got the stadium. Suns got their new arena in early 90s, DBacks in late 90s. Were those stadiums all a political hassle? If not, what has changed or is it just the interest in the Cards, Dbacks, Suns is just higher?

Suns haven't had much of an issue, but that's to be expected because the Suns are the cornerstone pro sports franchise for Arizona. The Diamondbacks are currently waging a war of words (and occasional legal notices) with the City of Phoenix, each trying to get the other to pay for renovations to Chase Field, and the D'Backs have quietly threatened to move elsewhere if they are stuck with the bill. The big difference right now is that dealing with a smaller city like Tempe and with the City of Phoenix is like apples to oranges. The former, you basically battle NIMBYs. The latter, a political machine that is a more passive-aggressive version of Chicago.

FFS. Where can AM go to just buy the land and do whatever the f*** he wants with it without anyone else getting a say? This is Arizona, what happened to live and let live? Lol

That's the problem - nowhere. There just isn't much commercial property of sufficient size in a good location with good accessibility central to the Valley. He could probably build a nice sprawling development somewhere on the fringes of the metro area, but that just compounds the whole Glendale problem (hell, at this point, Glendale isn't even a fringe area anymore, so take the Glendale losses and multiply them exponentially for anything further out).

 

[patnyrnyg]

Suns haven't had much of an issue, but that's to be expected because the Suns are the cornerstone pro sports franchise for Arizona. The Diamondbacks are currently waging a war of words (and occasional legal notices) with the City of Phoenix, each trying to get the other to pay for renovations to Chase Field, and the D'Backs have quietly threatened to move elsewhere if they are stuck with the bill. The big difference right now is that dealing with a smaller city like Tempe and with the City of Phoenix is like apples to oranges. The former, you basically battle NIMBYs. The latter, a political machine that is a more passive-aggressive version of Chicago.

gotchya. Here, before MetLife went up, Woody Johnson was trying to get a stadium for the Jets on the west side of Manhattan. For those familiar with NYC, a few blocks west of MSG. The mayor (Bloomberg) was all for it. Dolan (Rangers-Knicks-MSG-Radio City Music Hall owner) obviously was against it as were some very powerful politically connected NIMBY's.

 

[Puck possession wins]

FFS. Where can AM go to just buy the land and do whatever the f*** he wants with it without anyone else getting a say? This is Arizona, what happened to live and let live? Lol

There is no land.

The Californians, Washingtonians, Oregonians and Chicagoans took it all up.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

The sheer nostalgia for fiesta mall would be enough to kill any vote to replace it with an arena.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

The sheer nostalgia for fiesta mall would be enough to kill any vote to replace it with an arena.

Which is good, because there's no substantive difference between Fiesta Mall and Westgate, except that one is east and one is west of Central Avenue.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

As a westsider myself, my brain just keeps saying "Fiesta Mall is better than Salt Lake City, Fiesta Mall is better than Houston, Fiesta Mall is better thank KC" and then repeat, repeat, repeat lol

 

[moosemeister]

I live in Mesa, and even I think that Fiesta Mall location is a disaster.

People coming from Tempe/Scottsdale are not going to like fighting the traffic coming down the 101/60. It's brutal.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

As a westsider myself, my brain just keeps saying "Fiesta Mall is better than Salt Lake City, Fiesta Mall is better than Houston, Fiesta Mall is better thank KC" and then repeat, repeat, repeat lol

The key problem is that it would be as much of a drive for the fabled "season ticket core" to get to Mesa and the Fiesta Mall site as it took them to get to Glendale. No getting around that.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

People coming from Tempe/Scottsdale are not going to like fighting the traffic coming down the 101/60. It's brutal.

Yeah, there's a stretch on the southbound 101 that starts right about McDowell or McKellips, depending on the time of day, that is absolutely impassable. Only place I've seen it worse is through the Deck Park Tunnel at rush hour.

 

[MayDayMayDay]

There is no land.

The Californians, Washingtonians, Oregonians and Chicagoans took it all up.

That's the problem - nowhere. There just isn't much commercial property of sufficient size in a good location with good accessibility central to the Valley. He could probably build a nice sprawling development somewhere on the fringes of the metro area, but that just compounds the whole Glendale problem (hell, at this point, Glendale isn't even a fringe area anymore, so take the Glendale losses and multiply them exponentially for anything further out).

OMG lol.

We really, REALLY, need to just nut up and go to the rez.