Confirmed with Link: Weekesbomb: Palat to NJ for five-year deal

[devilsblood]

Colorado might not be a defensive dynamo but they are beasts with puck retrieval and along the boards. They can hoard the puck at will, they aren't simply a rush team playing loosey goosy pond hockey. Come on now.

I understand we are not as good as the Stanley Cup champs, but it doesn't change the fact that the NHL has trended toward a more uptempo game.

 

[guitarguyvic]

How many free agents have they signed? Boyle was 5 years ago, they signed Lovejoy the year before, they didn't sign anyone of consequence in 2018, in 2019 they signed Simmonds. In 2020 they signed Kulikov. Last year they signed Hamilton, Tatar, and Bernier. That's about it. So yes, it's been 5 years, but that's because they haven't signed anybody.

OK so it's not strictly all free agents but the point being that a lot of these complimentary pieces they put faith in were incredibly underwhelming...Simmonds, Subban, Gusev, Tatar, Johnsson. Dougie is a top tier player in his prime so that's fine and isn't really the type of acquisition I'm talking about (complimentary). Kulikov looks like the only one from the last few years that actually met or exceeded expectations.

I just hope Palat doesn't follow this pattern of taking a downturn the second he becomes a Devil like these previous acquisitions, because unlike those other guys, he's got a big contract.

 

[bossram]

I agree with this.

Palat is a PLAYOFF-PERFORMER moreso than a Regular-Season one.

Devils must get to the playoffs this upcoming season to have Playoff-Performer Palat make an appearance.

Lmao I know.

Half the people here are ascribing Palat as some legendary playoff hero (which he is). But then if that's the case, the only way this deal makes sense is if the Devils are making the playoffs every single season Palat is around.

Yet no one here considers the Devils to be at that level of contention yet.

 

[Buggsy]

Philly needs to clear cap space. They're a stupid organization. They were reportedly shopping Provorov. Sanheim was probably attainable. Kulak is a solid defender and I would've offered more than Edmonton for him to come to NJ. Pittsburgh has 9 NHL defensemen and are reportedly shopping Marino and Pettersson.

I'd fire off Blackwood. Trade for one of SJ's three goalies (preferably Reimer, but wouldn't mind Hill. Eric Comrie is a goalie with upside.

This is off the top of my head.

Right so most of that is upping the bottom pair for defence (Sanheim aside) or a lateral move just to get rid of Blackwood.

I agree that a good 3rd RD was what I would have liked.

I don't agree that any of those goalies have the upside of Blackwood or are worth expending assets to get instead of Blackwood.

So far we have added a 1B goalie, a veteran 3C and a vet top 6 wing. That's 3 of 4 goals I was hoping for this off season. The 4th being a steady 3 RD as mentioned. Smith isn’t quite what I wanted but maybe is a .5

 

[guitarguyvic]

Well that's certainly a take...you think it'd be a good deal if random team A did it, but since it's our team that did it, something bad's gotta result. And you guys thought I was being negative yesterday or last week about this franchise lol

No no this is reversed. It's not potentially bad because it involves our management team. It's that if our management team is involved, it's potentially a bad move because they don't have a good track record of making acquisitions that exceed expectations.

You take a look at Tampa and they are the opposite. They find complimentary gems almost every season. And they chose to let Palat go. Take that for whatever it's worth.

 

[Azathoth]

OK so it's not strictly all free agents but the point being that a lot of these complimentary pieces they put faith in were incredibly underwhelming...Simmonds, Subban, Gusev, Tatar, Johnsson. Dougie is a top tier player in his prime so that's fine and isn't really the type of acquisition I'm talking about (complimentary). Kulikov looks like the only one from the last few years that actually met or exceeded expectations.

I just hope Palat doesn't follow this pattern of taking a downturn the second he becomes a Devil like these previous acquisitions, because unlike those other guys, he's got a big contract.

I think a problem with past complimentary pieces is that there wasn't really much of a core for them to complement. Now that our core guys are starting to hit the ages where they should be entering their primes (guys like Nico, Bratt, Hughes even though he's still pretty young; plus guys like Rango and now Mercer) the complimentary players they add should actually have something to compliment (instead being overly relied upon).

 

[Richer's Ghost]

 

[Nico Hischier]

Philly needs to clear cap space. They're a stupid organization. They were reportedly shopping Provorov. Sanheim was probably attainable. Kulak is a solid defender and I would've offered more than Edmonton for him to come to NJ. Pittsburgh has 9 NHL defensemen and are reportedly shopping Marino and Pettersson.

I'd fire off Blackwood. Trade for one of SJ's three goalies (preferably Reimer, but wouldn't mind Hill. Eric Comrie is a goalie with upside.

This is off the top of my head.

You would really want to bring Eric comrie back here.... he was awful here and has not improved

 

[Triumph]

OK so it's not strictly all free agents but the point being that a lot of these complimentary pieces they put faith in were incredibly underwhelming...Simmonds, Subban, Gusev, Tatar, Johnsson. Dougie is a top tier player in his prime so that's fine and isn't really the type of acquisition I'm talking about (complimentary). Kulikov looks like the only one from the last few years that actually met or exceeded expectations.

I just hope Palat doesn't follow this pattern of taking a downturn the second he becomes a Devil like these previous acquisitions, because unlike those other guys, he's got a big contract.

More than half of what you listed were moves by the previous GM. You're just complaining to complain, you have no idea why those acquisitions failed, just that they did, and your assertion is basically 'the next acquisition will also fail, I fear'. That's it. Okay.

 

[devilsblood]

Did he forget how to be a "good pro" or something? Did he lose his Cup rings?

If people are ascribing a lot of the value Palat brings due to his experience, then they could've brought in a cheaper guy with experience and another good player and had more cap flexibility.

I'm not saying Pearson is better than Palat. He obviously isn't.

No, he was just never that player. I think he was 8th on the Kings in playoff scoring in 13-14. Has done next to nothing since.

Palat's been one of the best playoff performers in the league over the last 3 years.

And Palats regular seasons are far better too.

So yeah, we acquired a significantly better player. Complete different level of player.

 

[bossram]

Right so most of that is upping the bottom pair for defence (Sanheim aside) or a lateral move just to get rid of Blackwood.

I agree that a good 3rd RD was what I would have liked.

I don't agree that any of those goalies have the upside of Blackwood or are worth expending assets to get instead of Blackwood.

So far we have added a 1B goalie, a veteran 3C and a vet top 6 wing. That's 3 of 4 goals I was hoping for this off season. The 4th being a steady 3 RD as mentioned. Smith isn’t quite what I wanted but maybe is a .5

Tbh I think Kulak is better than Graves and would be a not-insignificant improvement on the second pair. His style of play would also be a perfect fit with Hamilton or Severson. I think Graves is dust. Should be on a 3rd pair. And Sanheim is clearly leagues better than him.

If Fitz had signed Kulak too, I'd feel a lot better about the offseason. And for the record, I did like the Vanecek trade. I just think Blackwood is too big of a risk/headcase/distraction.

You would really want to bring Eric comrie back here.... he was awful here and has not improved

He played....*checks notes*...one game with the Devils.

He put up a .920 last season on a defensively garbage Jets team. That's not improved?

Like what are you even talking about?

 

[Jack Be Quick]

You really, really don’t need a chart to understand that signing a 31 year old complimentary winger to a $30 million contract is a terrible idea

I almost always enjoy your posts, but you're way off the mark itt.

This team needed Haula, Vanacek, and Palat types as all 3 have been a part of competitive and/or winning cultures for their entire careers and improve positions that were lacking.

It's not as if Fitz is Lou going out and signing 126 year old Greene's and Chara's.

It's been stated 50 times here, cap up, other teams willing to absorb it for a pick and retained salary? It'll be fine if it even gets to that point.

 

[bossram]

No, he was just never that player. I think he was 8th on the Kings in playoff scoring in 13-14. Has done next to nothing since.

Palat's been one of the best playoff performers in the league over the last 3 years.

And Palats regular seasons are far better too.

So yeah, we acquired a significantly better player. Complete different level of player.

I've never contested that Palat is not the better player. I've literally said that he is obviously a much better player.

But many here are citing "experience" or "leadership" or similar things as justifications for overpaying him. Well, if you value those things so highly, just acquire a vet who brings those things for cheap! And keep the cap flexibility - and ability to add to the roster elsewhere.

The point is not specifically about Tanner Pearson at all. I just threw him out as an example that quickly comes to mind.

 

[devilsblood]

Lmao I know.

Half the people here are ascribing Palat as some legendary playoff hero (which he is). But then if that's the case, the only way this deal makes sense is if the Devils are making the playoffs every single season Palat is around.

Yet no one here considers the Devils to be at that level of contention yet.

Palat is also a good regular season player.

And the hope is, the reasons he is a good playoff performer, rubs off on our young guys, and thus there are lasting effects of this deal even as he declines and beyond that.

 

[guitarguyvic]

More than half of what you listed were moves by the previous GM. You're just complaining to complain, you have no idea why those acquisitions failed, just that they did, and your assertion is basically 'the next acquisition will also fail, I fear'. That's it. Okay.

Why do you have to be so goddamn condescending in every response? You think you have this all figured out down to a science and your opinions on players and the team is so much better informed than everyone else. Get off your high horse.

There's plenty of reasons those acquisitions failed...a combination of age and being relied upon too heavily are the main factors that come to mind, combined with misplaced faith that they would maintain previous production/performance in spite of it. With this particular signing, age is again a factor, but perhaps more importantly so is the reliance...if you're convinced this core is good enough that someone like Palat will truly be a secondary piece and not be relied on as a top guy, then yeah all is good. But if you don't have complete faith in this core...well...

 

[AfroThunder396]

You would really want to bring Eric comrie back here.... he was awful here and has not improved

Eric Comrie signed in Buffalo yesterday and is probably going to compete with UPL to be their starter this year.

 

[devilsblood]

I've never contested that Palat is not the better player. I've literally said that he is obviously a much better player.

But many here are citing "experience" or "leadership" or similar things as justifications for overpaying him. Well, if you value those things so highly, just acquire a vet who brings those things for cheap! And keep the cap flexibility - and ability to add to the roster elsewhere.

The point is not specifically about Tanner Pearson at all. I just threw him out as an example that quickly comes to mind.

But your example of Pearson doesn't provide that.

If you have another example then fine, but Pearson is not it. Pearson is way more Tatar then he is Palat.

 

[bossram]

Palat is also a good regular season player.

And the hope is, the reasons he is a good playoff performer, rubs off on our young guys, and thus there are lasting effects of this deal even as he declines and beyond that.

And you could accomplish the same with a cheaper vet, on a shorter term deal, and not have the cap consequences when you want to pay Mercer/Luke/Holtz/Nemec/Severson/etc.

And then they would still have additional flexibility to upgrade the roster with a "good regular season player".

 

[devilsblood]

If the argument is, we could have gotten a lesser player without the playoff resume, for cheaper, I mean, yeah, we definitely could have done that. Did it last year even.

 

[Nico Hischier]

Eric Comrie signed in Buffalo yesterday and is probably going to compete with UPL to be their starter this year.

I am not jealous of that tandem one bit lol

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

You would really want to bring Eric comrie back here.... he was awful here and has not improved

Eric Comrie literally goalied us last year for WPG, and looked good when he came over in 2021 for us in that game against Buffalo. Not sure what this is about.

 

[Bleedred]

You would really want to bring Eric comrie back here.... he was awful here and has not improved

I did like the Vanecek trade. I just think Blackwood is too big of a risk/headcase/distraction.


He played....*checks notes*...one game with the Devils.

He put up a .920 last season on a defensively garbage Jets team. That's not improved?

Like what are you even talking about?

He fared extremely poorly in my goals stoppable percentage. I counted 15 stoppable and he allowed 44 for 34%.

Now, this was also not as bad/high of a percentage as any of the Devils goalies not named Bernier or Schmid (Schmid played an even smaller number of games) either. And there are times where goalies deviate in my percentage from their actual results. Korpisalo fares pretty well most years, despite being shit in every other metric. Same goes for John Gibson's last 3 years.

That said, Comrie only played 20 games and 16 starts. He was extremely sheltered in the ice time he was able to see. His .920% in 20 games/16 starts is great, but what does he do with more playing time than that? Does he maintain .920%? Especially on a team where Hellebuyck was a .911%? I don't think so. I mean, it's possible he could maintain it over this season, but is Comrie all the sudden a .920% goalie? His overall number of games played in the NHL is actually very limited, especially for how old he is. He's 17 months older than Blackwood is and had only played 9 NHL games/8 starts before this season, including the one game with us. This could just be like the year Yann Danis was a .923% with us in 2009-2010, where they barely let him play. Comrie still started 3 times as many games as Danis did that year.

I completely agree on Blackwood being too big of a risk. I still lack a TON of confidence in our goalie situation and that's mostly due to Blackwood.

Vanecek was a good add, but I don't think he's good enough to absorb the blow of Blackwood being anywhere near as bad as he's been over his last 55 games. And I'm highly skeptical that a healthy Blackwood isn't trying to stay above .900 and struggling to maintain .905%, rather than the injured Blackwood struggling to stay above .890%.

 

[bossram]

But your example of Pearson doesn't provide that.

If you have another example then fine, but Pearson is not it. Pearson is way more Tatar then he is Palat.

Why doesn't it? Pearson by all accounts (I'm from Vancouver) is a "good pro". He's won a Cup as a 2nd line player. Did he forget his experience of winning or something? Tatar is not at all analogous to that.

I'd even be better off just giving like Darren Helm double what he got from COL for one season. He can be a "mentor".

 

[RSeen]

I definitely think it's reasonable to be happy to add Palat and also concerned about how his contract ages. I'm fine with the idea that good teams will have to use assets to move contracts eventually, but it's also always going to be riskier paying 2nd line talent.

But Palat's main role here will be a veteran from a winning pedigree to help change the losing culture. If he does that, he's worth every pick it takes to move his contract in 4 years.

Is he worth it if it costs us the buy out cost of $2M per year over double the length of the remaining years or the 1st round pick? What if it is after 3 years where we need to get rid of him?

We are talking about a 31 year old who has a reasonably physical style and has played a significant amount of playoff hockey.

IMO this is one of the worst contracts handed out this offseason. Perhaps not the worst but its near the bottom.

 

[devilsblood]

And you could accomplish the same with a cheaper vet, on a shorter term deal, and not have the cap consequences when you want to pay Mercer/Luke/Holtz/Nemec/Severson/etc.

And then they would still have additional flexibility to upgrade the roster with a "good regular season pla

I say it just above but, yeah we could have signed a lesser player with significantly less in terms of playoff accomplishments for cheaper.

We decided to spend more on a better player. I'm OK with that.

Why doesn't it? Pearson by all accounts (I'm from Vancouver) is a "good pro". He's won a Cup as a 2nd line player. Did he forget his experience of winning or something? Tatar is not at all analogous to that.

I'd even be better off just giving like Darren Helm double what he got from COL for one season. He can be a "mentor".

I already explained it. His best playoff year was 8 years ago, and he was 8th in scoring on the team. He's done next to nothing in the playoffs since.

Saying he provides the same as Palat who is literally one of the best playoff performers in the league over the last 3 years doesn't make sense.

Edit: I missed the Helm part. Older player, nowhere near as good, nowhere near the playoff resume. But sure he'd be cheaper.