We, the fans, are part of the problem

[Canadian Finn]

I think AM and MM are getting the message loud and clear, I'm also sure they felt they gave an honest effort but the results weren't there.

Everyday they can read in the media or see in twitter, facebook, etc. how disappointed the fans are, everywhere, all the time, 24 hours a day and probably for a long time into the future.

How will that make them feel, happy, content, motivated or what, maybe sad or even more likely angry.

AM is signed for 3 more years, MM for 4 more years, will that be enough time to heal their feelings, these are after all 23 and 24 yearolds.

After these contracts they will be UFAs, how likely will they be to resign?

Many teams have had to wait for their top talent to mature before their teams became true contenders, are AM and MM mature?

I think too much is being heaped on their plates too early in their careers and that too much will be/is too much for them too endure with their only out being moved out of town.

This is the perfect road to continuing TO's futility, the reason we will need to wait another 50 plus years to win a Cup.

that's bullcrap. they asked for heaps of money. How can "too much is being heaped on their plates" make sense? I really want to know the answer to this. You are part of the fanbase. You see the money they make. Then you suggest too much is being heaped on their plates.

Can you kindly advise why you think that is? (because to me, statements like that are what is wrong with our fanbase). But maybe you could clarify?

 

[lottster14]

This thread isn't even bad or incorrect. It's hilarious to me how the team as a whole (mostly) doesn't get the blame. Nor does the losing culture, collective laziness, a GM who signs good looking names like Thornton for show then makes a pile of useless trades at the TDL (also for show) etc etc.

People just want to blame one or two players, LOL. It's a massive cope.

 

[Al14]

Sorry to say it folks, but what's happening now with the Marner bashing is part of the reason this franchise will not succeed.

Why do we do this? We will end up driving this kid out of town. Even if Dubas doesn't want to deal him, who's going to want to play here under these circumstances? That's exactly the recipe for a bad trade.

Perhaps we need to find a happy medium between Plan the Parade (a week ago?) and what's happening now.

Perhaps the fragility of this team is reflective of the fragility of this fanbase. Let's practise some patience and break this cycle?

Because you know Mitch Marner comes out of this a changed man. We've all had to learn some hard lessons in life before we changed something that needed to be changed.

What just happened might be the worst thing that happens to this franchise in quite some time, but it could be the best thing, if some patience is exercised.

Don't take a $4M over payment and then continually disappear in the playoffs. He plays scared in the playoffs because it's war out there. Matthews is somewhat the same. They both are magical in the regular season, and complete SHIT when it counts in the playoffs.

 

[darrylsittler27]

What would change if they started losing money?

They would be forced to hire a real GM, who in turn would trade most of the core and get a real coach. This is the most incompetent team in all of sports, their record losing streak proves that. I have done a full analytics on Dubas, he is hot garbage , a loser pretending to know what he is doing. All that money spent and no p.p and they looked pathetic. That team was never going to win a cup and the rebuild has now been destroyed. Even our prospect pool is ranked 20th. At the end of the day, if it was a real job, without all those naive fans to fleece, he would fired.

 

[Garthinater]

Will never ever, EVER happen. years ago I registered for season tickets. I can't afford them just wanted to see the waiting list length.....20 years. the wait was 20 years, one sheep out another in.

I honestly dont even know if I should be mad at the management. they tried their best to put together a winning team. Dubas went out and checked all the boxes. things were looking good going in.
I mean doesnt matter who Dubas adds when your core shuts down after going up 3-1.
The lack of effort all round was extremely frustrating to watch.
After this loss I dont care what happens with the team anymore.
Nothing works.....
Marner isn't going any where boys.....
NO ONE would give up anything remotely close to value
For sure losing

We are all stuck in Groundhog Day except for one day this is an entire year

Did dubas really check all the boxes?
He traded a 1st for an injured foligno who only played 4 games in the playoffs with 1 assist.

Dubas is the one who signed the 3 forwards to 10+ mil deals. He is the one responsible for our lack of depth.

Its shocking how many of you are willing to give dubas another pass.

How many people get to inherit an awesome looking job (105 point season, franchise record, good rfas, lots of cap space) and have zero results after 3 years yet still keep their job?

I'd guess not to many.

 

[Garthinater]

If Leaf fans switch to the Kracken and just forget about this garbage sports franchise things would change. Nothing can change until the owners start losing money. This has been going on for decades, they make money no matter what garbage they put on the ice and every single year is excuses. Boy Buffoon blew the rebuild. Those 4 players arent worth anything close to what they are paid and how many draft picks have we given up for nothing? Our prospect pool is 20 th in the league now, its weak. They need a new GM to blow this team up and start all over, a real GM not a pink panty beta with no experience.

If dubas is still here at the start of 21-22, I will be a kraken fan.

I am done cheering for a team with a loser gm who focuses more on his virtue signalling than making the leafs a formidable team.

I can only imagine how much better we would be if we had just kept lou.

Yet most of the dubas fan club will tell you how awful lou is and that Kyle is a Saint lmao

 

[darrylsittler27]

If dubas is still here at the start of 21-22, I will be a kraken fan.

I am done cheering for a team with a loser gm who focuses more on his virtue signalling than making the leafs a formidable team.

I can only imagine how much better we would be if we had just kept lou.

Yet most of the dubas fan club will tell you how awful lou is and that Kyle is a Saint lmao

 

[darrylsittler27]

If Dubas stays there will be no point in supporting the Leafs, there are simply too many fans who enjoy losing and are naive to buy the constant string of excuses.

 

[Gabriel426]

Let me tell you guys a personal story.
My brother in law used to date an actress from Taiwan, she knows what to say and is really pretty. But she was never on time when meeting my family or my parents in-law for lunch, coffee or dinner. Being 30 mins late was on time for her, most of the time she was at least an hour or more late. To me that’s a lack of respect but bc she is pretty and knows what to say all the time, my parents in law always brought her crap.
They broke up after my bro in-law lost his job and was struggling financially, he is happily married now to another woman. This woman is not as pretty as the actress and also a bit colder in terms of personality and is always early whenever she meets up with my family or my parents in law.
The kicker is, my parents in law still misses the actress and wishes my bro in law married her instead bc she is prettier and knows what to say to make them happy but completely ignoring the fact that she is disrespectful and pretty much a gold digger.
Some Leafs are exactly like my parents in law, will only focus on the superficial stuff(regular season stats, hometown boy…) and completely ignoring everything else.

 

[Trapper]

We are going to come back next year and do the same thing and convince you to accept it and expect a different result.


Leafs management:

 

[JayfromNB1219]

There is good and bad in both tiers of market

Rabid market-
Good: if you show up you literally have the most support you could dream of having
Bad: if you don’t show up...it’s a hard knock life

Small market-
Good: Nobody really cares
Bad: nobody really cares

 

[GardinerTheForward]

Do you have to win in the Marner trade to win the Cup or to be contenders?

Exactly. The goal isn’t to win a Marner trade, the goal is to win the cup.

My stance is moreso wait till Marner put up another half season riddled with assists or until Dubas is gone. Either would increase the return. As well, it gives us a bit more certainty on the future of the cap. Maybe it “thaws”

 

[Gabriel426]

My stance is moreso wait till Marner put up another half season riddled with assists or until Dubas is gone. Either would increase the return. As well, it gives us a bit more certainty on the future of the cap. Maybe it “thaws”

I don’t think it is a must to trade Marner or any of the core but it is at least on the table. If a deal make sense, you pull the trigger.

Like the Avs/Nords back in the 90s, Sakic, Sundin and Nolan were once their core, they ended up winning Cups without two of them. Were Sundin and Nolan busts? Not even close, but Avs choose to trade them for pieces that they believe are better fit for winning the Cup.

 

[egd27]

They would be forced to hire a real GM, who in turn would trade most of the core and get a real coach. This is the most incompetent team in all of sports, their record losing streak proves that. I have done a full analytics on Dubas, he is hot garbage , a loser pretending to know what he is doing. All that money spent and no p.p and they looked pathetic. That team was never going to win a cup and the rebuild has now been destroyed. Even our prospect pool is ranked 20th. At the end of the day, if it was a real job, without all those naive fans to fleece, he would fired.

They're on their 7th GM in the past 20 years, a fan boycott isn't going fix that they just don't know who to pick.
They've tried experience, they've tried HOFers, they've promoted from within, and they've twice gone the first timer route.
They are trying, but they just don't know how.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Did dubas really check all the boxes?
He traded a 1st for an injured foligno who only played 4 games in the playoffs with 1 assist.

Dubas is the one who signed the 3 forwards to 10+ mil deals. He is the one responsible for our lack of depth.

Its shocking how many of you are willing to give dubas another pass.

How many people get to inherit an awesome looking job (105 point season, franchise record, good rfas, lots of cap space) and have zero results after 3 years yet still keep their job?

I'd guess not to many.

Like I said I don't know if I should even be mad at management.
They went out and got what we were lacking in Defence
then improved Leadership
then at the Trade Deadline he went out and kept all our top prospects and moved basically magic beans for more of what we were lacking.
Goaltending was a huge question mark and then Campbell shows he can be relied on.

Seems like Management did a fairly good job other than Matthews/Marner mega contracts.
Drafting appears to be improved as well.

How many losses with this core before they start to take some heat?
Why should we be mad at Dubas when Matthews and Marner did nothing
Why is this on them when our stars the ones who took all the money didnt show up.
Our depth was doing fine, our D was going great. what we needed was our stars to step up.

Our team had a 3-1 series lead and managed to not show any will to win.

But I guess it's all Dubas fault and not the players right?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

What else is new.
Us the fans
Bitching and moaning for more changes.
It doesn't matter what we do.
We are all for the most part pathetic.
We have lots of good fans but are doubled or tripled by losers that just cry

How about we sit our rookie ass armchair gm's down and let the team make the decisions.

No more ranting for this or that guy to be fired.
We think it's the best but really it might not be.

I mean do we ever actually bring something positive to the table other than a little cheering throughout the games?
We literally harass our own players after a bad game.

This isn't just a Leafs problem. same can be said about almost any major market like the Habs.... Threatening Scheifele's parents. wtf is wrong with us... It's a god damn sport that really doesn't matter

Sometimes fans of this sport make me sick
Players do more for the community and for kids than we ever would even consider. shit half of us likely wouldn't even hold the door open for the next person.

Like I said there are alot of good fans out there but there are far too many disrespectful ones

We need to be better

 

[Notsince67]

You watch this shit year after year and you land on us? Lmao. It's amazing the Yankees are still in business eh?

As far as I'm aware the background din hasn't featured any death threats, and death threats are pretty goddamn common. What do you want? It's a big sport in a big market, there's like minimum 20 other cities on this continent with a similar atmosphere around similar teams. The Leafs are big in Toronto, but this shit isn't special. There's lots of pressure ooh spooky and oh also here's 40M+ of your 65M contract paid out in the first two years and enough sponsorship money to eclipse the GDP of Lesotho, like that's the f***in gig, you're a pro athlete and some people are mad because you lost in an embarrassing fashion again oh it's so unfair. That's the gig, you're well compensated for it, deal with it or don't, your choice.

Stages of grief.

• Shock and denial. This is a state of disbelief and numbed feelings.
• Pain and guilt. ...
• Anger and bargaining. ...
• Depression. ...
• The upward turn. ...
• Reconstruction and working through. ...
• Acceptance and hope.

Some leaf fans arent at anger yet.
The op will get there.

After decades of this shit, I can turn this whole cycle quickly and I can understand why others take a longer time. I was asked before the series ended what I would do if the leafs lost.
Puzzling question because I cant do a thing. The experience of a loss and disappointment should merit some here a phd.
I do notice around here that there are a few who are more fans of conflict and drama. They only show up all year to crap on the team or aspects of the team...never to praise it.
This gives impressions that the fan base is at fault. Look around at the names on the board now, just crapping away. A few are legit fans in the anger or grief stage. Very few are known trolls and the majority are tourists who only come when the team is down.

 

[lottster14]

We have good, loyal fans. Some of us get ridiculously cocky when things look promising, and it's honestly embarrassing and a reason why we get hate. This regular season was a good example, every time we beat an opponent (in the crappy north), you saw a lot of nonsense like:

"f*** YOU HABS HAHA"
"LOOL JETS FANS BIG MAD, THEIR TEAM USED TO BE PHYSICAL, NOW WERE THE DIRTY KINGS"

As for the on ice result, it's sadly deserved. Paying 'the kids' their crazy money before they ever prove anything in the playoffs is brutal and on Dubas.

 

[ottomaddox]

We as fans decided to look beyond MTL to the next series vs. WPG, and it cost us...

No.

 

[justashadowof]

We have good, loyal fans. Some of us get ridiculously cocky when things look promising, and it's honestly embarrassing and a reason why we get hate.

However this kind of behaviour does not have any effect whatsoever on the results. It's magical thinking to think it does. And undoubtedly the same behaviour exists in every other fan base. We need to get over concerning ourselves over other fans hating you as a collective. Mob mentality hate is their problem not yours individually and that sentiment extends way beyond sports fandom.

As for these cocky sorts, where are they? Honestly I'd like to know what they're thinking (and rationalizing) right now.

 

[lottster14]

However this kind of behaviour does not have any effect whatsoever on the results. It's magical thinking to think it does. And undoubtedly the same behaviour exists in every other fan base. We need to get over concerning ourselves over other fans hating you as a collective. Mob mentality hate is their problem not yours individually and that sentiment extends way beyond sports fandom.

As for these cocky sorts, where are they? Honestly I'd like to know what they're thinking (and rationalizing) right now.

Yeah, agree. Would like this post if I was able to.

 

[7even]

Stages of grief.

• Shock and denial. This is a state of disbelief and numbed feelings.
• Pain and guilt. ...
• Anger and bargaining. ...
• Depression. ...
• The upward turn. ...
• Reconstruction and working through. ...
• Acceptance and hope.

Some leaf fans arent at anger yet.
The op will get there.

After decades of this shit, I can turn this whole cycle quickly and I can understand why others take a longer time. I was asked before the series ended what I would do if the leafs lost.
Puzzling question because I cant do a thing. The experience of a loss and disappointment should merit some here a phd.
I do notice around here that there are a few who are more fans of conflict and drama. They only show up all year to crap on the team or aspects of the team...never to praise it.
This gives impressions that the fan base is at fault. Look around at the names on the board now, just crapping away. A few are legit fans in the anger or grief stage. Very few are known trolls and the majority are tourists who only come when the team is down.

Used to think this was overstated or just a reflex rebuff against criticism but after 10 years here and a lot of usernames memorized yeah nah, it's a real thing. Can't even engage, just have to avoid it. There's no dialogue to be had there, just people who really like the sound of their own voice.

 

[7even]

Small market-
Good: Nobody really cares
Bad: nobody really cares

Coincidentally, this is also my take on what being a man is like.

 

[HarryLime]

If I were you guys I'd just find a new passion if it hurts and I mean that. The Leafs were my life from when I turned in 8 in 2000 to about 2011. 2012-2015 I was still a huge fan.... more into the prospects than the team because we sucked but I just moved on and let other stuff take over Art, music, fitness, other sports, etc. The new core should have got me back into it but they never really won me over or took my heart like the Sundin era teams did in the early 00s. I just never felt the joy I did with this group, but that also meant I never felt the pain as much. It was more disappointment and then with Columbus and Montreal it was totally more "see I told you, they're a joke" type of stuff. I'm not gonna say they did this to me, because I let myself get attached so it's been way easier the last few years to become a casual... and then a fan of other stuff. It's just easy to move on, look what they did

- Missed playoffs from 06 to 12 - 7 seasons of missing the playoffs after a lockout...

-Makes it in 2013 and we know what happens.

- 0 Series wins since 2004

- You finally have a core and you choke every year and lose a once in a lifetime series against your biggest rival when they've dominated you since the original 6 era ended. You lost in the worst way. Showed 0 heart, choked and lost to honestly a meh team. You can never get this back, the Canadian division was a one time thing and you absolutely blew it and it's the worst moment in franchise history

- You lost to a zamboni driver lmao

- You traded draft picks for aging corpses my entire life and you never learned it was a bad idea

Like if you guys wanna keep going because you think you can't move on or want to stay because you truly love them, I get it. It will feel amazing if they win for you guys. Cubs and Red Sox fans will tell you your faith can be rewarded but to me we're the Knicks. We're a corporation, run by morons and it's company MLSE first. It's just so anti sports and sports demonstrate some of the best human qualities. We have none of them. We put all these stupid lines on our jerseys to show you what we're made of but it's just bullshit. I can't let something incompetent be a big part of my life. I don't even like the players, GM, ownership, etc. I openly hate John Tavares and Mitch Marner and they're 2 of our biggest pieces. Everyone else loves them (Not anymore lol) but I guess I just have changed as a person. I watch them and don't feel love, just am linked to this team so I'm supposed to feel things. I don't. It's sad because if you guys saw my room and my internet history until a few years ago you never would have guessed I could shun them but it feels amazing to do it and laugh at them now. I can't explain. It would be like someone you love really letting you down time and time again and you reveling in their misery. I get it's horrible but it's the truth.

 

[Notsince67]

If I were you guys I'd just find a new passion if it hurts and I mean that. The Leafs were my life from when I turned in 8 in 2000 to about 2011. 2012-2015 I was still a huge fan.... more into the prospects than the team because we sucked but I just moved on and let other stuff take over Art, music, fitness, other sports, etc. The new core should have got me back into it but they never really won me over or took my heart like the Sundin era teams did in the early 00s. I just never felt the joy I did with this group, but that also meant I never felt the pain as much. It was more disappointment and then with Columbus and Montreal it was totally more "see I told you, they're a joke" type of stuff. I'm not gonna say they did this to me, because I let myself get attached so it's been way easier the last few years to become a casual... and then a fan of other stuff. It's just easy to move on, look what they did

- Missed playoffs from 06 to 12 - 7 seasons of missing the playoffs after a lockout...

-Makes it in 2013 and we know what happens.

- 0 Series wins since 2004

- You finally have a core and you choke every year and lose a once in a lifetime series against your biggest rival when they've dominated you since the original 6 era ended. You lost in the worst way. Showed 0 heart, choked and lost to honestly a meh team. You can never get this back, the Canadian division was a one time thing and you absolutely blew it and it's the worst moment in franchise history

- You lost to a zamboni driver lmao

- You traded draft picks for aging corpses my entire life and you never learned it was a bad idea

Like if you guys wanna keep going because you think you can't move on or want to stay because you truly love them, I get it. It will feel amazing if they win for you guys. Cubs and Red Sox fans will tell you your faith can be rewarded but to me we're the Knicks. We're a corporation, run by morons and it's company MLSE first. It's just so anti sports and sports demonstrate some of the best human qualities. We have none of them. We put all these stupid lines on our jerseys to show you what we're made of but it's just bullshit. I can't let something incompetent be a big part of my life. I don't even like the players, GM, ownership, etc. I openly hate John Tavares and Mitch Marner and they're 2 of our biggest pieces. Everyone else loves them (Not anymore lol) but I guess I just have changed as a person. I watch them and don't feel love, just am linked to this team so I'm supposed to feel things. I don't. It's sad because if you guys saw my room and my internet history until a few years ago you never would have guessed I could shun them but it feels amazing to do it and laugh at them now. I can't explain. It would be like someone you love really letting you down time and time again and you reveling in their misery. I get it's horrible but it's the truth.

Thanks for the heads up. Will update my ignore list