We, the fans, are part of the problem

[Garthinater]

I expected you to look at the teams that have won and gauge their path to the cup. How many years did it take them to get there, how many series losses etc etc A far more comprehensive study is what I thought you would do.

I'm not going to do it. Figure it out man.

No team in the salary cap era has won a cup after losing 5 times in a row in the 1st round.

Not a single team has won a cup with half their cap tied up in 4 forwards during the salary cap era.

Re the bolded: Maybe you should actually look at the cup winners because it is clear you have no idea what you are talking about.

"Figure it out man" lmao

 

[egd27]

History has shown these lessons are learned over multiple seasons and don't happen in 2-4 years, it's over 5.

Can you please cite an example of an NHL team that lost its first round post season series for 5 years in a row that went on to win the Cup with the same "core"?

Or even one that went to the SCF?

 

[Garthinater]

Very true. I think staying the course is the best option for us for at least another season or two. I may be wrong but I think Marner et al will learn immensely from what happened this season. I like what is happening with our defense and I also think Foligno is going to re-sign with us and be a pivotal piece going forward.

Matthews and marner appear to have not learned anything the last 4 years.

Why do you think that will suddenly change now?

How many first round exits do we need for posters like you to wake up?

You are literally the definition of insanity.

Remember, this is the toronto maple leafs. Not the kyle dubas'.

 

[Jmo89]

Nope. The problem is when players being paid 11M don't score goals in the playoffs.

Marner is an egomaniac and I'd gladly see him traded for nothing.

At least Matthews is a center and does more in the regular season.

 

[Garthinater]

Can you please cite an example of an NHL team that lost its first round post season series for 5 years in a row that went on to win the Cup with the same "core"?

Or even one that went to the SCF?

Or one with 50% of their cap tied up in 4 forwards.

I'll give lapyi a hint, neither have ever happened.

Look at the top contacts on cap friendly. Only 1 of the top 16 highest aav's are still in the PO. We have 3 in the top 7 and none are max term.

How is that a recipe for success?

Look at Tampa vs us

Kuch 6 more at 9.5
Vas has 7 more at 9.5
Stamkos 3 more at 8.5

Matthews has 3 more years at 11.34
Marner 4 more at 10.9
Jt 4 more at 11

Tampa has already won a cup with their core, they are signed for longer and for less money.

We are at such a disadvantage due to dubas' negotiating its insane!

 

[Iapyi]

Matthews and marner appear to have not learned anything the last 4 years.

Why do you think that will suddenly change now?

How many first round exits do we need for posters like you to wake up?

You are literally the definition of insanity.

Remember, this is the toronto maple leafs. Not the kyle dubas'.

What does Dubas have to do with what I'm talking about.

We've gone decades without success with posters like you wanting to make wholesale changes every year we don't win the SC.

Get your gripes out now because what you desire will not happen. The Shanaplan understands this. You don't. We will not be taking out our core because management knows that is a recipe for disaster as has been proven for decades.

Get your anger out and prepare to be wowed. Posters like you will be the first ones claiming to have been right all along even though we will be doing the exact opposite of what your emotions are begging for right now.

What will suddenly change? There is no suddenness to this process, that is what you do not understand. Instant gratification will get you no where in the NHL.

 

[Garthinater]

What does Dubas have to do with what I'm talking about.

We've gone decades without success with posters like you wanting to make wholesale changes every year we don't win the SC.

Get your gripes out now because what you desire will not happen. The Shanaplan understands this. You don't. We will not be taking out our core because management knows that is a recipe for disaster as has been proven for decades.

Get your anger out and prepare to be wowed. Posters like you will be the first ones claiming to have been right all along even though we will be doing the exact opposite of what your emotions are begging for right now.

What will suddenly change? There is no suddenness to this process, that is what you do not understand. Instant gratification will get you no where in the NHL.

We have gone decades without success with "fans" like you who want the same thing year after year. No accountability, just excuses.

You talk about what it takes for a team to win and yet have no clue yourself.

No team has won with 4 forward taking up half the cap.

No team has won after losing 5 times in a row in the first round.

Quote me where I said we need to make wholesale changes. Why do you constantly feel the need to create strawman arguments?

The "shanaplan" has been in effect for 7 years now and we still have nothing to show for it. How many more years of failure do we need for you to wake up?

The only "recipe for disaster" is trying the same thing over and over with the same core and expecting different results. Insanity.

Most teams end up trading part of their "core" in order to better themselves.

Boston traded: keseel, Seguin, Hamilton, etc and still keep winning.

Washington got rid of green and semin.

This idea that you have to keep the core together is complete hogwash spread by dubas and his fan club due to in experience and immaturity.

 

[Bluebear]

Being a Leaf fan is like being Charlie Brown lining up to kick the football for Lucy. “Duh. Maybe this time she won’t pull it away” wrong again.

it’s our fault that we support the team so much that they have all the best resources. I want everyone to know that it is not their fault. Don’t absorb the leafs losing mentality and put it on yourselves.

It is always their fault and the team that finally wins will get all the credit and love that they deserve.

 

[Iapyi]

We have gone decades without success with "fans" like you who want the same thing year after year. No accountability, just excuses.

You talk about what it takes for a team to win and yet have no clue yourself.

No team has won with 4 forward taking up half the cap.

No team has won after losing 5 times in a row in the first round.

Quote me where I said we need to make wholesale changes. Why do you constantly feel the need to create strawman arguments?

The "shanaplan" has been in effect for 7 years now and we still have nothing to show for it. How many more years of failure do we need for you to wake up?

The only "recipe for disaster" is trying the same thing over and over with the same core and expecting different results. Insanity.

Most teams end up trading part of their "core" in order to better themselves.

Boston traded: keseel, Seguin, Hamilton, etc and still keep winning.

Washington got rid of green and semin.

This idea that you have to keep the core together is complete hogwash spread by dubas and his fan club due to in experience and immaturity.

We've gone decades without success with posters like you wanting to make wholesale changes every year we don't win the SC.

Get your gripes out now because what you desire will not happen. The Shanaplan understands this. You don't. We will not be taking out our core because management knows that is a recipe for disaster as has been proven for decades.

Get your anger out and prepare to be wowed. Posters like you will be the first ones claiming to have been right all along even though we will be doing the exact opposite of what your emotions are begging for right now.

What will suddenly change? There is no suddenness to this process, that is what you do not understand. Instant gratification will get you no where in the NHL.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

We've gone decades without success with posters like you wanting to make wholesale changes every year we don't win the SC.

Get your gripes out now because what you desire will not happen. The Shanaplan understands this. You don't. We will not be taking out our core because management knows that is a recipe for disaster as has been proven for decades.

Get your anger out and prepare to be wowed. Posters like you will be the first ones claiming to have been right all along even though we will be doing the exact opposite of what your emotions are begging for right now.

What will suddenly change? There is no suddenness to this process, that is what you do not understand. Instant gratification will get you no where in the NHL.

Vegas went to the Cup Finals in their first year of existence. Just sayin'.

 

[Garthinater]

We've gone decades without success with posters like you wanting to make wholesale changes every year we don't win the SC.

Get your gripes out now because what you desire will not happen. The Shanaplan understands this. You don't. We will not be taking out our core because management knows that is a recipe for disaster as has been proven for decades.

Get your anger out and prepare to be wowed. Posters like you will be the first ones claiming to have been right all along even though we will be doing the exact opposite of what your emotions are begging for right now.

What will suddenly change? There is no suddenness to this process, that is what you do not understand. Instant gratification will get you no where in the NHL.

Lol did you basically just copy and paste your previous message?

How many strawman have you created in just a couple posts?

Its clear that you are not worth my time.

Get back under your bridge.

 

[Peiskos]

Or one with 50% of their cap tied up in 4 forwards.

I'll give lapyi a hint, neither have ever happened.

Look at the top contacts on cap friendly. Only 1 of the top 16 highest aav's are still in the PO. We have 3 in the top 7 and none are max term.

How is that a recipe for success?

Look at Tampa vs us

Kuch 6 more at 9.5
Vas has 7 more at 9.5
Stamkos 3 more at 8.5

Matthews has 3 more years at 11.34
Marner 4 more at 10.9
Jt 4 more at 11

Tampa has already won a cup with their core, they are signed for longer and for less money.

We are at such a disadvantage due to dubas' negotiating its insane!

This right here sums it up, I don’t know why anyone calls Dubas a genius, those 3 wouldn’t have gotten that much money anywhere else. Kind of bizarre actually how Marner got 10.9 million having never accomplished anything in this league, Matthews at 11.34 is also absurd. Both of them should have been 9 max.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

We've gone decades without success with posters like you wanting to make wholesale changes every year we don't win the SC.

Get your gripes out now because what you desire will not happen. The Shanaplan understands this. You don't. We will not be taking out our core because management knows that is a recipe for disaster as has been proven for decades.

Get your anger out and prepare to be wowed. Posters like you will be the first ones claiming to have been right all along even though we will be doing the exact opposite of what your emotions are begging for right now.

What will suddenly change? There is no suddenness to this process, that is what you do not understand. Instant gratification will get you no where in the NHL.

The entire plan based on those contracts was to get through 2 years of cap hell (which have now passed) and then things get much easier. Cap projections for 2021 season were well over 90+ million. So I never actually liked the plan... but I at least understood it and saw that it could possibly work.

But you have to understand that the covid flat-cap changes things. It's now not 2 years of cap hell. It's all six years of cap hell. That wasn't the plan. It sucks that we'll lose one of our core players. I get it. But a global pandemic got in the way of the plan and management needs to respond. Three forwards making 11 million is not sustainable in a flat cap world. Tavares has an nmc, Matthews is Matthews... so that unfortunately leaves Marner.

You seem to think you're the reasonable one by "not overreacting". But you're the UNreasonable one who refuses to see that a global pandemic requires a new plan altogether.

 

[egd27]

History has shown these lessons are learned over multiple seasons and don't happen in 2-4 years, it's over 5.

It doesn't take 5 years if you are actually willing to embrace what you learned.

nhl.com/islanders/news/gretzky-recalls-great-rivalry/c-466223

"Only a few short years earlier we were watching Trottier, Bossy, Billy Smith and Denis Potvin and the other great players they had on TV," Gretzky said before his Coyotes took on the Islanders on Sunday afternoon. "Then a few years later, we were playing against them in the finals. We were on a pretty good roll coming into the (1983) series and thinking we were invincible."

The loss in 1983 was a humbling experience for the up-start Oilers, who were young and confident. However, Gretzky credits that loss with teaching the Oilers what it takes to win. And in fact, the Oilers would ultimately win four of the next five Stanley Cups and five of the next seven.

"We walked by their locker room in the corridor and saw after they won they were too beat up to really enjoy it and savor the victory at that moment," said Gretzky. "We were able to walk out of their pretty much scot free. We had so much respect for the Islanders players and the Islanders teams that we learned immediately you have to take it to another level in order to win a Stanley Cup.

And that’s what we did. We learned from it and often credit for the Islanders players and Islanders teams for teaching us exactly what it’s all about and how hard it is to win."

 

[Iapyi]

It doesn't take 5 years if you are actually willing to embrace what you learned.

nhl.com/islanders/news/gretzky-recalls-great-rivalry/c-466223

"Only a few short years earlier we were watching Trottier, Bossy, Billy Smith and Denis Potvin and the other great players they had on TV," Gretzky said before his Coyotes took on the Islanders on Sunday afternoon. "Then a few years later, we were playing against them in the finals. We were on a pretty good roll coming into the (1983) series and thinking we were invincible."

The loss in 1983 was a humbling experience for the up-start Oilers, who were young and confident. However, Gretzky credits that loss with teaching the Oilers what it takes to win. And in fact, the Oilers would ultimately win four of the next five Stanley Cups and five of the next seven.

"We walked by their locker room in the corridor and saw after they won they were too beat up to really enjoy it and savor the victory at that moment," said Gretzky. "We were able to walk out of their pretty much scot free. We had so much respect for the Islanders players and the Islanders teams that we learned immediately you have to take it to another level in order to win a Stanley Cup.

And that’s what we did. We learned from it and often credit for the Islanders players and Islanders teams for teaching us exactly what it’s all about and how hard it is to win."

I remember those quotes way back in the day.

What you say isn't necessarily not accurate and situations over the decades do change. In our current circumstances I think bailing on Marner would be unwise. The chemistry between him and Matthews is only going to develop a stronger and better bond.

I don't think Matthews will be near as effective without Marner. It's not as if I'm some Marner fanboy either, I just look at things objectively from my perspective. Unlike some posters [not saying you] I am prepared to say I may be wrong whereas certain posters just thing they are right and that's all that's to it.

Thanks for the mature response without the childish and inflammatory comments some posters like to throw around like - get back under your bridge - claiming false strawman arguments which just proves they don't even know what it is - it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about - saying someone is the definition of insanity - etc etc etc Childish personal attacks which is just flaming. Kudos to you.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Dubas turned the fan base against him by giving him that monster contract

 

[Stonehands1990]

Nope. The problem is when players being paid 11M don't score goals in the playoffs.

Marner is an egomaniac and I'd gladly see him traded for nothing.

At least Matthews is a center and does more in the regular season.

After seeing the piss poor coaching job I just witnessed, it blows my mind that people still think “the scorers just didn’t score”

Here’s an example, in the 2nd Boston series after 2 games Cassidy moved Pastrnak to the 2nd line to get Boston’s offence going. That’s what coaching is all about

 

[Jmo89]

After seeing the piss poor coaching job I just witnessed, it blows my mind that people still think “the scorers just didn’t score”

Here’s an example, in the 2nd Boston series after 2 games Cassidy moved Pastrnak to the 2nd line to get Boston’s offence going. That’s what coaching is all about

Don't disagree. I made a post the other day in around the league. Keefe has been an embarrassment two years in a row and can pack his bags alongside Marner.

For how bad Babcock's game 6 was in the second Boston series, Keefe has been horrendous in both the play-in and now the playoffs.

M&M still need to do more though.

 

[Garthinater]

I remember those quotes way back in the day.

What you say isn't necessarily not accurate and situations over the decades do change. In our current circumstances I think bailing on Marner would be unwise. The chemistry between him and Matthews is only going to develop a stronger and better bond.

I don't think Matthews will be near as effective without Marner. It's not as if I'm some Marner fanboy either, I just look at things objectively from my perspective. Unlike some posters [not saying you] I am prepared to say I may be wrong whereas certain posters just thing they are right and that's all that's to it.

Thanks for the mature response without the childish and inflammatory comments some posters like to throw around like - get back under your bridge - claiming false strawman arguments which just proves they don't even know what it is - it's clear you have no idea what you're talking about - saying someone is the definition of insanity - etc etc etc Childish personal attacks which is just flaming. Kudos to you.

Lol your posts are entirely childish and full of inflammatory comments. Pot calling kettle black lmao or do you not understand what that means either?

Yeah you are so right BLOW IT ALL UP AND START FROM SCRATCH. DUMP EVERYONE ON THE TEAM NOW!!!!!! I expect this to be done by the end of the day.

I do not accept losing but I'm experienced enough to know the patience and fortitude it takes to win in the NHL. You learn and grow along the way. Look at every single other team that has won the Cup in the cap era. I challenge you to do that oh super duper smarter than everyone else fan that you think you are.

LOL

Pure genius.

I expected you to look at the teams that have won and gauge their path to the cup. How many years did it take them to get there, how many series losses etc etc A far more comprehensive study is what I thought you would do.

I'm not going to do it. Figure it out man.

 

[Lightsol]

History has shown these lessons are learned over multiple seasons and don't happen in 2-4 years, it's over 5.

No, no, no, don't you see? The Impatient Fan demands the Leafs make the same mistakes they made in the mid-90's and early-00's to placate them! It's the ONLY WAY...

 

[Iapyi]

Lol your posts are entirely childish and full of inflammatory comments. Pot calling kettle black lmao or do you not understand what that means either?

Yawn.

 

[Iapyi]

No, no, no, don't you see? The Impatient Fan demands the Leafs make the same mistakes they made in the mid-90's and early-00's to placate them! It's the ONLY WAY...

They need their emotional release. We haven't had a core this good for decades but they want to panic react. Many of these posters would complain if we went 82-0 and 16-0 in the playoffs.

 

[Canadian Finn]

lapyi, you are providing more entertainment than the leafs did in the playoffs.

don't stop.