We didn’t know what we had

[justloveleafs]

Why has no one in leafie land, eased up on the punches to leaf management and noticed a pretty good team was skunked, habs went from going the limit with us, and crunching the JETS.

No mention of that here. Just moaning and whining and whaling about how the sky is grey etc....

Habs, got three allstars back into the lineup, just for the playoffs and they all stood tall.

UGH, lay off a bit and show some respect.

This is chess, not checkers. Carey Price and Weber dialed in, with a great talented pest like Gallagher injected into the lineup.....

Leafs are a darn good team, we lost to a slightly better team. End of ecoute

 

[Ciao]

All the frothing at the mouth over Dubas in a Lamoriello thread is a very bad look.

 

[57 Years No Cup]

 

[Brobust]

Imagine the outrage if Lou had traded a 1st for a player who played 4 PO games and got 1 assist.

Its funny how you think everything Lou does is bad yet his team keeps winning.

Maybe you have no clue what you're talking about?

Let's ignore them playing like ass in the regular season, going to pathetic losing streaks and only making the playoffs because of shortened seasons.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I know exactly what I’m talking about. Expected goals uses shot type and location in a weighted average system to determine the probability of goals

I’m guessing you don’t actually play hockey yourself because if you did you’d know a screened shot is more dangerous than an unscreened shot. But they would have the same expected goals value. Hence the reason the stat is flawed

Sometimes people think because we don't like certain analytic numbers its because we think they are useless. They are not...but at the same time they have serious limitations and xGF is one of the worst metrics that people trot out. Its the new Corsi. If we had way more data (and maybe teams with tracking stats do have that data) we could say a shot from AM at the top of the circle with no screen is xx% likely to go in compared to a screened shot from Reilly from the same spot. I don't think the public stats tell you that much detail.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Talent does not equal winning, especially the cup. Patience is how you end up like the Canucks or the sharks.

2020 we were told that we were way to talented to lose to the jackets.

2021 we were told that we would either sweep the habs or in 5 at most.

Maybe there is more to winning than just talent?

Go back to your own board. You've proven to have no clue what you're even talking about.

Why people assume we are going to win like Pitts or Chicago is beyond me when we are much more likely to be SJ or the Canucks like you said. Not every team with great talent wins...there are lots of talented carcasses on the road to the cup. We seem to not value the very things that you need in the playoffs for some reason. Willfully covering ones ears because in a fair world...penalties called in the reg. season are called in the playoffs is just being obtuse. They clutch they grab and cheat....deal with it and fight fire with fire.

 

[shortfuze]

Nah. I think any reasonable leafs fan knew exactly what they had with Lou. He had some good deals/trades but some really bad ones as well. Difference between him and Dubas is that I’d rather have Dubas over pay the young up and coming stars than a bunch of has been and never was.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Use the data in conjunction with qualified minds who know how to scout a player and create a basic profile. This is the most important part of the process.

Once this player is profiled based on his potential role on the team, that’s when we start using numbers to compare certain details that will be part of our overall decision based on the specific roles we needs. This is when we start looking at different intangible qualities this individual brings etc etc.

Kyle Dubas: Trade Mason Marchment for Dennis Malgin.

Kyle Dubas: Trade Mason Marchment for Dennis Malgin.

See, now when that trade happened I kinda thought he is just throwing darts around and is guessing on stuff. How can you find this guy and nurture him through all the years in the AHL and just dump him for a Hobbit? I am on the shorter side of the height equation and I think Dubas is too. I think he suffers from Small Man Syndrome to an extent and just HAS to prove the little guy can be important too. That or some weird stat catches his eye all the time...I don't know anymore.

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

I don't think even 1 player was drafted/developed by him on the NYI squad. Why are people thinking he did something praiseworthy? He only added a bunch of plugs, but the team is feeding off of their star players and not those plugs.

 

[ToneDog]

I don't think even 1 player was drafted/developed by him on the NYI squad. Why are people thinking he did something praiseworthy? He only added a bunch of plugs, but the team is feeding off of their star players and not those plugs.

If u mean Lou, try Dobson and Wahlstrom. In the same 3 years which current full time Leaf was drafted by Dubas?

 

[ToneDog]

See, now when that trade happened I kinda thought he is just throwing darts around and is guessing on stuff. How can you find this guy and nurture him through all the years in the AHL and just dump him for a Hobbit? I am on the shorter side of the height equation and I think Dubas is too. I think he suffers from Small Man Syndrome to an extent and just HAS to prove the little guy can be important too. That or some weird stat catches his eye all the time...I don't know anymore.

The final 4 teams have a true #1 goalie, a big d core and 3 to 4 lines deep. Leafs not so much and why they are golfing or watching on TV.

 

[sparxx87]

See, now when that trade happened I kinda thought he is just throwing darts around and is guessing on stuff. How can you find this guy and nurture him through all the years in the AHL and just dump him for a Hobbit? I am on the shorter side of the height equation and I think Dubas is too. I think he suffers from Small Man Syndrome to an extent and just HAS to prove the little guy can be important too. That or some weird stat catches his eye all the time...I don't know anymore.

Yeah, it just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

It’s not even about Malgin’s size, it’s his play style, skill set, and how that fits with the core players. Marchment checked almost all the boxes. Malgin, virtually none of them.

Nic Petan trade was similar. For a team headed to the playoffs to trade a versatile 4th liner that can play all 3 forward positions for a minor league winger was just another head scratcher. This is not a deal playoff teams are looking to make, although I’m sure the Jets were quite happy to make the swap for their playoffs.

 

[ToneDog]

Nah. I think any reasonable leafs fan knew exactly what they had with Lou. He had some good deals/trades but some really bad ones as well. Difference between him and Dubas is that I’d rather have Dubas over pay the young up and coming stars than a bunch of has been and never was.

Guess you prefer 1st round exits to making the semis.

 

[shortfuze]

Guess you prefer 1st round exits to making the semis.

Yup. Cause that’s exactly what I’m talking about.

 

[Tak7]

we lost to a slightly better team. End of ecoute

The Habs:

1. Finished 18th overall, a season after finishing 20th overall
2. Finished the regular season with 8 more losses than they did wins.
3. Finished behind 2 teams that missed the playoffs altogether.
4. Scored 30 goals fewer, and conceded 17 more goals than the Leafs

Let's be very clear here - the Habs are not a "slighty better" team. They were significantly worse, were planning their holidays after game 4, and the Leafs let them off the mat.

 

[The Best Leafs Ever]

If u mean Lou, try Dobson and Wahlstrom. In the same 3 years which current full time Leaf was drafted by Dubas?

Dobson was a default choice in that range at the time and he may look good now, you don't know what you have for a few years. Wahlstrom has only played 5 games so far in the playoffs. It's bad that our coach wasn't comfortable using rookies while their coach is gelling with them. We have Robertson and Sandin and with way later picks but how are they gonna show anything without playing in games?

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Nobody can deny the fact that Marner, Matthews & Nylander would have taken less money on their deals.
Less money means more cap room to improve the bottom 6, our exact area of weakness right now.

If you don't see the value of a GM that puts the team in front of individuals, then just look at the playoff track record last couple of years.

 

[Garthinater]

All the frothing at the mouth over Dubas in a Lamoriello thread is a very bad look.

I'm still curious how you measure "ceilings" when it comes to gms.

Dodging my question isn't a good look. Kind of exposes your bias.

Why has no one in leafie land, eased up on the punches to leaf management and noticed a pretty good team was skunked, habs went from going the limit with us, and crunching the JETS.

No mention of that here. Just moaning and whining and whaling about how the sky is grey etc....

Habs, got three allstars back into the lineup, just for the playoffs and they all stood tall.

UGH, lay off a bit and show some respect.

This is chess, not checkers. Carey Price and Weber dialed in, with a great talented pest like Gallagher injected into the lineup.....

Leafs are a darn good team, we lost to a slightly better team. End of ecoute

Lmao the habs are a terrible team that shouldn't have made the playoffs. The fact we lost to them is atrocious.

 

[Donnie740]

We have Robertson and Sandin and with way later picks but how are they gonna show anything without playing in games?

Sandin played five playoff games and singlehandedly lost TWO (2) of this with his brutal turnovers.

The guy is complete trash and hopeless as an NHL defenceman.

Way too slow, way too soft and way too small.

 

[Donnie740]

I'm still curious how you measure "ceilings" when it comes to gms.

Even more important is to assess the “floor” of each GM.

You know Lamoriello isn’t going to make an asinine move that destroys a franchise with a bunch of boat anchor contracts. His floor is very high.

Dubas likely has the lowest floor of any GM in the NHL. Aside from his complete lack of experience, he’s desperately trying to implement a system - - focusing exclusively on speed and skill while completely ignoring size, tenacity and toughness - - that has never before been successful in the history of the NHL.

 

[Garthinater]

Let's ignore them playing like ass in the regular season, going to pathetic losing streaks and only making the playoffs because of shortened seasons.

The islanders have 2 less wins than us over 3 years in the regular season.

They also have twice as many wins in the playoffs.

Strange for a team that plays like ass and has pathetic losing streaks to be just as good as us in the regular season but twice as good in the PO.

Do you enjoy being wrong or something? You dubas fan boys have been telling everyone for 3 years how bad the islanders are yet they keep outperforming dubas' team.

I thought you guys would wake up after 3 straight loses but it appears you are still as blind as ever.

 

[tronoleaf]

Dubas has 1 more year only because Shanahan likes him. So this might be the last 12 months of Kyle.

 

[egd27]

Don't be naive.

What makes dubas have a "higher ceiling"?

Him having no results for 3 years?

Or lou only having positive results for 3 years and then leading another team to the semi finals?

How is "ceiling" measured?

His complete lack of experience theoretically indicates he has much more room to grow.
Whereas Lou has already won 3 Stanley Cups as a GM so he likely already knows what he's doing and has less room to grow.
This of course assumes that Kid Kyle has both the ability and time to grow. I'm not sure he does.

 

[Ciao]

I'm still curious how you measure "ceilings" when it comes to gms.

Dodging my question isn't a good look. Kind of exposes your bias. . .

You asked a question and you have my answer -- while I am fine Lamoriello, if I had to choose I would choose Dubas because he has a higher ceiling.

You evidently don't like my answer, but that's my opinion and that's what you asked.

You're very entrenched in your position, and I'm not asking nor expecting you to agree -- and I'm not interested in debating it with you because I don't think you have an open mind.

Who would I prefer? Dubas, since you asked. Thats all there is to it.

Nothing you've said has changed my mind.

 

[Garthinater]

You asked a question and you have my answer -- while I am fine Lamoriello, if I had to choose I would choose Dubas because he has a higher ceiling.

You evidently don't like my answer, but that's my opinion and that's what you asked.

You're very entrenched in your position, and I'm not asking nor expecting you to agree -- and I'm not interested in debating it with you because I don't think you have an open mind.

Who would I prefer? Dubas, since you asked. Thats all there is to it.

Nothing you've said has changed my mind.

Thats all fine and dandy but how do you measure "ceiling" when it comes to gms?

You have made your position clear but it doesn't appear to be based on facts or reality.

I've shown you that lou only had success / progress with us and the islanders.

Dubas has only had stagnation or regression.

It is just wishful thinking? Or can you explain how you've come to this conclusion?