Post-Game Talk: We Blew a 3-0 Lead in the Third Period to the Oilers

[PuckLuck3043]

I’m the last guy here to over react to one bad loss. That being said, today was a gutless performance. Something should change. I don’t know if it’s the coach or the lines or what. Trouba as Captain honestly is not looking good. Team has lost the chip on its shoulder from last season. I am horrified for Monday night.

Me too but this isn't about 1 game. I wish it was but the lost opportunities and lost points this year is a huge problem. Other teams are finding a way to win and the Rangers are doing the opposite. This game was brutal, so was blowing a 3 goal lead against the Piles. Losing against shit teams like Anaheim, San Jose, and Columbus doesn't help the situation either. There is something wrong in Rangerland and it begins with the coaching.

 

[EdJovanovski]

He's not that slow and he makes up for it with his skill and smarts. Already a Norris trophy winner and he could be in the conversation again.

Of course, I’m not saying he’s a net negative because of his skating he’s still absolutely elite but our team definitely needs more speed. Even our elite dman is slow. Our team is built like it’s 1999

 

[Kravtsov420]

Fix it. We've been saying "welp, don't wanna send guys there" for several years like we're not the ones in control of that.

(The team, obviously, not you)

Jed ortmeyer should walk the plank at this point

 

[bleedblue94]

So let's be real here, if you are tweaking out bc of the third period today then you need to sit down and stop bc the game today was NOTHING different then the games we have seen from this team all season since opening night. This game was another where they played in spurts, thought they were going to win by tying their skates, made an average to below average goalie not even work for a win, and then tried to skirt by with that half effort to a win.

Many people have been expressing the same concerns all season that came to manifest themselves in that third period into an unescapable colimination of the issues with this roster AND of the attitude/intensity of this group.

This team needs TWO top 7 d men. Neither Jones now hajek is going to cut it in a playoff run this year.

The whole Miller fox this is a flaw and even the coaches saw that when they put Miller back with trouba and put Schneider with fox

Offsides review is still a joke and ANYONE who gives it the old "they got the call right that's most important" is a hypocrite unless you want EVERY zone entry reviewed at all times to ensure the washout was the correct call. Simply making it subjectively important when a team scores a goal is contradictive.

For the love of God make an adjustment on pp1. For the crowd that asked during preseason and during October "why is it important to have a pp2 working and when would you even need to use it" I point to exhibit A which is a pp1 that is floundering and now ranked outside of the top 15. I am not picking on trocheck, he is a great player is the right role, but he does not belong on pp1 and panarin needs to be moved off the halfwall. If Connor mcdavid can be successful in a bumper position as a distributor via fast tough passes and movement then there is no reason why panarin can't be allowed to make a shift. Right now our pp is simply get the pick to the right side and eventually force it over to zib for him to one time it on goal or backdoor to Kreider. Even Joe said that in the broadcast today. It's so stale, this isn't 1960s where pro/advanced scouting isn't a thing. Other teams know what we are doing. Panarin's non goal was a muffin let in by an backup goalie playing at an AHL level.

Furthermore it is becoming obvious to more that although trocheck is an upgrade on strome he is not a 5v5 2c answer, he was picked to try to offset panarin's weaknesses which is a flawed way to construct a team. As I said at the time of the signing he is a terrific 3c on a real contender that has the proper depth to win. If he is a 2c on a contender then that team is going to be lacking.

Campbell looked like a disaster out there and we let him off the hook. We had as many shot attempts as edm had shots on goal. Pathetic.

We always look tired. For weeks it was "travel" and "back to backs", but this group is not in the condition to constantly push pace in games.

The mentality isn't there. They look lost. No one has the killer instinct going. This summer if someone said Turk would be fired this year I would have laughed, but the product, body language, and consistency in the negatives we keep seeing game after game are alarming. Someone said coaches dont get fired in the NHL unless the team tunes them out, and that is kinda true, but when the coach keeps saying "we talked about it many times" "we addressed it already" "we keep making the same mistakes" then it appears the coach is saying the players aren't listening to him. This is an issue with this group bc we have heard the same things through multiple coaches now.

The Gauthier goal was probably my favorite moment in the game bc it felt like one of the first times in forever that align was actually digging right on the crease and wouldn't be denied. Usually there's two guys standing off to the side waiting for a loose puck to maybe pop out while one guy is digging. There was a desperation and a hunger on that goal which was great, but we don't have that through this lineup.

Panarin is really becoming a 5v5 black hole. A player making his money and of his stature and talent isn't a player that you sign guys to compensate for, nor is it supposed to be a player that you have to constantly juggle to find a match to get him going 5v5. He's supposed to be the player you put a struggling player with to help get a lesser player going.

Anyone complaining about laffy's penalty for pulling the helmet of is being silly bc no one here criticized him for when he did it in the playoffs. People celebrated it. He did the same thing again but he has a rep now and he got caught. Don't cheer it when he gets away with it and then call him an idiot for doing the same thing but getting caught.

What player for this franchise I'm the last 20 years has missed more open nets than kakko? Guy is playing so hard and I just want to see him rewarded. It seems like it's nerves at this point.

Chytil is out best 5v5 center and it's not even close at this point. I have been hard on him for years but he's improved tremendously while our other centers seem confused as to what they are trying to do at 5v5.

The zib Kreider 5v5 marriage needs to end for the good of the team. They can be buds in the locker room, share a hug after a win, and work magic on the pp but 5v5 it is just too vanilla.

I'm sure people will come in criticizing this things but people flipping out about a 20 min manifestation of the issues some posters have been bringing up all season in the face of ridicule is pretty ridiculous. This is the team we have and there should be no hiding from the flaws and issues, it isn't always about puck luck, there are real issues. A championship aspiring team with structure and discipline does not leave their own network talking heads literally speechless with that kind of display. If Drury can't make a player move of some substance (which is incredibly hard around the league right now) then I won't be shocked if turk is in trouble if this continues 3 more weeks. After Thanksgiving they are out of a playoff spot and it can slip away quickly.

Drury won’t do shit

Won't ruin his weekend...

Ha

 

[Ola]

Of course, I’m not saying he’s a net negative because of his skating he’s still absolutely elite but our team definitely needs more speed. Even our elite dman is slow. Our team is built like it’s 1999

I haven't posted in a while, so of course I got to come in and say 'what did I tell you'. Our players aren't slow. Its not like anyone look at Kreider and say he is slow. Zibanejad? Yeah he is slow. Trochek? Panarin? Chytil? We have a lot of fast players.

But in today's game speed kills and all teams are fast, its a race, and you can get an edge if you have guys who got that skating that enables them to be like glue on the puck, to effortlessly change direction and keep high speed under their skates. You are never getting that from a 6'3 forward. There is a reason why Zibanejad always struggle against the top lines around us with quicker players.

With that said -- our biggest problem by fast this season, AINEC -- is goaltending. I haven't seen all games this year, but I turn on one of our keepers toss the game. Halak? What a horrible signing. Absolutely awful. Shestyorkin has been fighting it. It becomes a negative spiral, team looses since it isn't getting goaltending, teams start to play worse because its without confidence, that exposes the goalie who can't get back on track with a shaky team infront of him.

 

[Machinehead]

Fox doesn't need to skate. He controls the puck with his mind.

The blue line walks Adam Fox to avoid crossing him.

 

[Ola]

Seriously, can someone please explain the offside call to me? Had a bad feed. The Swedish commentators didn't comment on it.

From what I saw it seemed like he pulled the puck into the zone, then back into the bluepaint, but never over it. Surely I must have missed something.

 

[CLW]

That's all fine and well, but you need the players to buy into the system....this bunch is determined to do what THEY want to do -- Zib said as much when DQ was coach.

Quinn 2.0

ah yes... this strong leadership group..

We need the coach to be the leader, unfortunately.

I disagree. The team needs a smart coach who can talk the language of the players and who is on the same page as they are. Zib eg was brought up in Swedish hockey, you don't think he understands structure and responsible two-way play? Imo Quinn, Gallant and many other dino coaches are anachronisms to these modern players so it's pointless going in that direction. The players don't listen because those coaches have nothing to teach. Trotz may be different because he is a famous stickler for X and O details and the game's intricacies, but again he may be better with a vet heavy squad. The Florida players LOVED Quenneville because he actually had something to teach them and they grew as players.

More importantly the kids like Laffy and Kakko are even more steeped in modern hockey. Those guys need someone like MSL to teach them the ins and outs of creating space for offensive hockey in the NHL, help with honing their skills in those areas, support them, and help them build CONFIDENCE in their game.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Fox doesn't need to skate. He controls the puck with his mind.

The blue line walks Adam Fox to avoid crossing him.

You make him sound like Kravtsov!

 

[Machinehead]

Seriously, can someone please explain the offside call to me? Had a bad feed. The Swedish commentators didn't comment on it.

Panarin never actually brought the puck into the zone on his initial entry. The whole team was offside by the time he actually entered.

 

[bleedblue94]

Oh, and rip that C off Trouba's chest, immediately. That would certainly turn some heads.

Too much chaos.

The direction this is trending is coaching staff. You can't move the contracts, you cant create cap space, you can replace your staff. 20 games isn't a playoff run hangover anymore.

 

[Machinehead]

You make him sound like Kravtsov!

If Adam Fox dropped over and died on the ice, his rotting corpse would have more talent than Kravtsov, probably score more points, and somehow be healthier.

 

[SA16]

His first two seasons yes. His last two seasons, he’s entirely reliant on the PP. It accounts for over 40% of his pts and he’s a turnover machine at ES. He has 3y left, so it’s a road to nowhere either way. We need the cap elsewhere.

39% of McDavid's points since last year are on the PP. You want to say he's reliant on the PP? Fine. But try to use something actual to show it instead of a pointless stat that is true for many guys who are elite on the PP.

I'm also somewhat confused about how the player who is 20th in the league in 5v5 points and 34th in points/60 (McDavid is 33rd) since last year is a PP specialist.

Edit: Not sure whatnumbers I had. Panarin is 17th. McDavid 6th.

 

[The New Russian Five]

true but we also should have tried him in the top six last year to know what we would be getting especially when panarin-strome was stale

And this in lies another big problem. Lack of experimentation to understand what you have. Current prime example: Kravtsov sitting, and Lundkvist not getting an opportunity on the 3LD pair. We don't know what we have in Kravstov, and we didn't know what we had in Lundkvist.

This organization's inability to plan ahead is infuriating.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

Of course, I’m not saying he’s a net negative because of his skating he’s still absolutely elite but our team definitely needs more speed. Even our elite dman is slow. Our team is built like it’s 1999

No argument from me about the need for more speed.

 

[SA16]

It's an organizational issue and has been for a very long time.

Young players are not given responsibility, even during the dark ages of 98-04. If the Rangers had drafted Ovechkin or Makar, the team would have insisted on not using them on the PP and forcing them to play the system and establish defensive reliability first. 5 years and 130 points later, both would have gone somewhere else.

Kreider bust onto the scene as a legit speedy power forward. What happened? Buried on the depth chart, in and out of the lineup. 10 years and a huge contract later, he finally has a breakout year.

Let's go back in time a little bit and look at all of the forwards that have busted with the Rangers or only reached their potential in other places:

Alexei Kovalev. Yes, he had his moments, but his points totals with the Rangers never lived up to everywhere else in his career. He should have been scoring 70+ points every year. At least we got Nedved back for him the first time. All everyone did was call him soft and an enigma, bench him for long shifts, and misuse him on the PP.

Christian Dube/Daniel Goneau. Aside from Goneau scoring at a hot pace to start his career, nothing. Dube never even really got an extended look in the NHL at all. A quarter of a season on the 4th line and that was it, and scored his first NHL goal in a blowout when he actually got thrown onto the powerplay.

Manny Malhotra. Besides being a headscratching pick, a guy touted as a potential power forward was never used in an offensive role. Aside from a quarter season at the end of 00-01 where he got to play with Messier, nothing offensively. And that was his third season in the league after barely playing in the NHL his second, after spending his entire rookie year with the big club. Turned into a defensive center which was no doubt partially influenced by how he was used.

Pavel Brendl - never played a game for the Rangers.
Jamie Lundmark - never saw ice time above the third line.

Hugh Jessiman - horrible pick. The Jason Bonsignore of his draft class. He even later said his heart wasn't in hockey. Team did NOT do their homework on this pick at all.

Lauri Korpikoski - another speedy skater used primarily in a defensive/penalty killing/grinder role his whole career. Jimmy Vesey before Jimmy Vesey.

JT Miller - In and out of the lineup, buried on the depth chart, not trusted on the PP. Gets traded right as he's becoming serviceable as a second liner and morphs into a top line player.

Pavel Buchnevich - couldn't earn ice time, he's too soft, blah blah blah. Then one promising season, and of course he's the odd man out for salary cap and has been a legit first line player since. Remember when it was obvious to every fan the KZB line was the best combo the Rangers had, and yet they still wouldn't use him there for another 18 months?

Lias Andersson - Drafted for "leadership" instead of skills, which made no sense at the time and still doesn't. Another stupid "defensive responsibility" pick in a forward at the top of a draft class.

Filip Chytil - certainly wouldn't call him a bust, but he was a high risk high reward prospect who has been underutilized. On the rare stretches he got to play with Panarin, he showed a lot - like he could be a 60 point guy someday under the right circumstances, but of course he never gets the chance (or wil get a concussion right as it looks like he's earned his big break). I still think he's far better than his numbers.

It's an organizational philosophy that kids have to earn everything and veterans don't. It's spreading your scoring instead of putting your best players together so they produce. It's Jimmy Vesey on the first line - which is something I said about why I wouldn't be thrilled if he made the team despite genrally playing well and earn it...because it took less than a month for him to be on the top line again.

And it's completely infuriating to watch season in and season out, no matter who the coach is.

None of that makes sense. How does Brendl, Lundmark, Jessiman, Korpikoski have anything to do with Lafreniere/Kakko/Kravtsov/Andersson? It's not the same people in charge. It's different coaches. Different front office. What do you think Jim Dolan is out on the ice telling them all how to play?

 

[bleedblue94]

the only hope is a disciplinarian/Torts type might work for 2-3 years.

Get the most out of the team and change once again once the disciplinarians schtick runs thin. Maybe a guy like Trotz who will at least implement structure?

Mike Babcock is going to coach in this league again at some point. Don't know where, but it is going to happen bc his kind is rare in this league but sometimes it is still needed. This team culture is soft...

 

[LOFIN]

Fox doesn't need to skate. He controls the puck with his mind.

The blue line walks Adam Fox to avoid crossing him.

For real. Fox literally is the least of the problems with this team right now.

 

[xsniper11x]

You’re missing the little fact that he controls his destiny and that no team is taking him on at that cap hit

this isn’t like moving a 25 year old Jack Eichel from an atrocious Sabres team

I’m well aware. Just prefer to not have to repeat it every single post on this topic. Our ES strength offense is not a success (and even the PP is now failing) w/ him as the core focus. Make him share these responsibilities, if not revoke them entirely. If he doesn’t like the reduced role, then he can waive his NMC to go elsewhere.

We need to try something new and prepare for life after Panarin, which is something I’m starting to hope comes sooner rather than later.

 

[Ola]

Panarin never actually brought the puck into the zone on his initial entry. The whole team was offside by the time he actually entered.

Aha, I get it. Thanks!

 

[Machinehead]

I tend to agree that the offside review is fried ass but Panarin got what he deserved (and honestly it wasn't that close and shouldn't have been missed live).

He once again got himself in trouble deking nobody instead of just carrying the puck in a straight line.

Then when he actually is challenged, he defaults to the pull-up instead of trying to put a move on and beat the guy.

He's doing everything backwards and neither of our last two coaches would ever say f***ing boo to him.

 

[bleedblue94]

Replacing Gallant won't change anything when your core players and supposed leaders play like they don't give a shit

The only thing that changes is if someone has the balls to start taking ice time away. You wanna dog it 5v5 then guess what, you're not getting the pp time you want.

It's not complicated and it works. Either the player adjusts or he exposes himself as a selfish cancer in which case you cut it out and move on.

Too much entitlement here with this roster...

Its both!

I still stand ny not resigning krieder and i love panarin but if we could trade him for a budding young player and 2 1st rounders and a solid roster player... Sign me the hell up.

If you could trade panarin for 11.6m in cap space you do it. You absolutely do it. No one would touch that contract though for a one dimensional passing winger that is playing himself into a pp specialist role. Not at that money and term you can laugh all you want but a player making a top 3 or 2 cap hit should not and can not be a 5v5 liability.

 

[Irishguy42]

Fox doesn't need to skate. He controls the puck with his mind.

The blue line walks Adam Fox to avoid crossing him.

When Fox has the puck, he folds space.

He stays in the same place the entire time.

 

[CLW]

The Rangers need to catch up with speed, that's for sure.

I guess, you know, there's 32 teams and somebody has to be the slowest team, but the Rangers might be the slowest team since they took out the red line.

I don't buy that non-elite skating should doom a prospect but when nobody on the team can skate, it becomes more of a problem.

It's not that they can't skate, it's that they STOP skating as soon as a Ranger D gets a puck on his stick. WTF is up with that?

 

[xsniper11x]

39% of McDavid's points since last year are on the PP. You want to say he's reliant on the PP? Fine. But try to use something actual to show it instead of a pointless stat that is true for many guys who are elite on the PP.

I'm also somewhat confused about how the player who is 20th in the league in 5v5 points and 34th in points/60 (McDavid is 33rd) since last year is a PP specialist.

If Panarin wants to be a generational C talent for his $12mm that displays that level of success no matter who he plays with, in the regular season or POs, then he can have 50% of his pts on the PP.

My argument is much more nuanced than that, highlighted by the fact he can’t seem to develop any chemistry at ES with anyone but Strome, is a turnover machine that can’t (or simply refuses to) adjust his game.

He also happens to be 98th in ESP/60 this season after a horric PO performance that left us all concerned. And again, none of this is to say he’s a bad player. He’s a great player, but one that I feel is becoming an increasingly poor fit here.