Salary Cap: We are looking for nuclear Kessels. And whales. Beam me up, Scotty Bowman

[Ugene Magic]

Yes... but if we get someone like Kessel, we're still not going to have any depth. Our team with Crosby, Malkin, Letang and MAF is already stacked with elite talent. What we need is skilled depth. Skilled players who can play with our stars and help them out in the playoffs, but not guys who are going to cost a fortune - in either cap space or assets to acquire.

Lets say for example we could get Oshie+ for Sutter+Harrington+2016 3rd, and we could get Eriksson for Kunitz+2016 4th.

Cap wise we're sending out 7.1m and acquiring ~8.1m. Yet we just filled our entire top 6, and with Dupuis and BB (or another prospect/player) have 2/3rds of a decent 3rd line. And it only cost us Harrington and a 3rd and 4th (most want to see Kunitz and Sutter gone). And if Eriksson works out, odds are we would probably be able to re-sign him (I don't really have fears about not being able to sign skilled players who we can pay and play in the top 6).

Or would you rather have Kessel for 8m, still need to find another top 6 player AND have given up Scuderi, Kunitz, DP, 2016 1st?

Look, as I said, as long as we don't drastically overpay for Kessel (aka not 3 young assets - eg KK, DP, 1st), then whatever. We have him and we move on. But I'd much rather target other skilled players who are more of a complementary player who wouldn't cost as much and who would allow us to have better depth.

The key here is to get Crosby and Malkin what they need to have success. That need to be other elite players. And with a cap in place, it probably makes more sense to look at guys who won't cost 8m against the cap.

All were getting it is that bringing in more third wheels shouldn't be perceived as the fix. Both Eriksson and Oshie are just that. Now if you bring one in as an addition to a guy like, Kessel, then it's seen as more palatable.

You don't have to justify yourself on what you believe, we all would like to get Kessel on the cheap, it's just not gonna workout that way and we know it. You don't want to spend the assets. That's fine. Totally understandable.

If Perron and Hornqvist were not here already I would lean more your way of getting more than one talent for cost of one Kessel.

 

[AgentM]

Hey Agent M, what's up? Haven't seen you around in a while (could be because I'm in a perpetual HFB haze). If we get Kessel without selling the farm I will indeed consider a name change. Your suggestion has merit.

Made the mistake of taking a management position so that ended both my HF @ work time and my entire outside of work life

I always find time to get sucked back in for the big three though:

NHL Draft / July 1st

NHL Trade Deadline

NFL Draft

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The whole depth argument is a red herring.

We did not lose because this team was stacked with elite talent which chocked off our ability to add quality depth.

We had no depth because we signed/drafted/developed the WRONG players below our elite players. The contracts given our core had nothing at all to do with it. Our idiot management's choices to sign the Scuderis of the world did. Adding Kessel would have nothing to do with whether we could fill out our roster properly. Choices management makes on those bottom roster players and draft picks do.

Signing Kessel, or Crosby, or Malkin, or Fleury or the man in the moon had zero to do with our jettisoning a cost controlled high quality defenseman like Despres. Idiocy was the entire story.

 

[Riptide]

The Penguins have lost 7 of their last 8 playoff games (all to the NYR.)

In those 7 losses, they scored 7 goals... total.

The answer is a couple of defensively responsible, average skating guys, that can punch in a few goals here and there, as opposed to an elite level, speed demon, goal scorer?

Kessel is a game changer. Oshie and Eriksson... not so much.

The problem has been, if Sid and Geno can't make it all happen, no one else will.

At the very least, Kessel adds a third name to that list of folks that can make post season wins happen.

I know I'd feel more confident in them paying Kessel and say... Comeau 9.5m than Eriksson and Oshie 8.15m... PLUS whatever that extra 1.35m would buy! No?

But it's not just the 1.35m... it's also the fact we'd be losing Pouliot and our 1st next year vs (at least in my example) Harrington and a 3rd and 4th.

Agree completely. But is that because we don't have a game changer like Kessel, or because we just didn't have any balance to our lines? Here was our 13/14 lineup against the Rangers (when Malkin was on the 2nd line - otherwise dump Stemp and move up Sutter).

Kunitz - Crosby - Gibbons/Stemp
Jokinen - Malkin - Neal

Add in that Crosby was going through a horrible slump and we all know JJ and Neal were not the right wingers for Malkin.

People always say depth wins championships, but for some reason we insist on trying to give up what little depth we have, limit our future options for depth and chase the elite players.

Here's a question for you. Who was the last team that won a cup with 3 80 point players on it? Or even a team that one could realistically look at and say yeah those 3 are all PPG players? Having players of that caliber limits you options - if only because of the futures you've moved and the cap hits they have. Honestly, I'd much rather have Crosby and Malkin surrounded with guys who would be 55/60 point players in Oshie, Perron, Eriksson and Hornqvist then I would a stud 80 point guy and a bunch of 35/40 point guys because that's all we can afford.

 

[SwordofStMichael]

Getting ready for bed turned on 93.7 the Fan first thing I hear is Dan Kingerski talking about what his sources say about Joel Ward. NY Rangers are hot after Ward but Ward really likes the Pens and would accept any reasonable offer from them.

 

[66-30-33]

Getting ready for bed turned on 93.7 the Fan first thing I hear is Dan Kingerski talking about what his sources say about Joel Ward. NY Rangers are hot after Ward but Ward really likes the Pens and would accept any reasonable offer from them.

Of course he does, goes from Ovechkin to Malkin.

 

[MrWilson*]

But it's not just the 1.35m... it's also the fact we'd be losing Pouliot and our 1st next year vs (at least in my example) Harrington and a 3rd and 4th.

Agree completely. But is that because we don't have a game changer like Kessel, or because we just didn't have any balance to our lines? Here was our 13/14 lineup against the Rangers (when Malkin was on the 2nd line - otherwise dump Stemp and move up Sutter).

Kunitz - Crosby - Gibbons/Stemp
Jokinen - Malkin - Neal

Add in that Crosby was going through a horrible slump and we all know JJ and Neal were not the right wingers for Malkin.

People always say depth wins championships, but for some reason we insist on trying to give up what little depth we have, limit our future options for depth and chase the elite players.

Here's a question for you. Who was the last team that won a cup with 3 80 point players on it? Or even a team that one could realistically look at and say yeah those 3 are all PPG players? Having players of that caliber limits you options - if only because of the futures you've moved and the cap hits they have. Honestly, I'd much rather have Crosby and Malkin surrounded with guys who would be 55/60 point players in Oshie, Perron, Eriksson and Hornqvist then I would a stud 80 point guy and a bunch of 35/40 point guys because that's all we can afford.

http://thehockeywriters.com/penguins-shouldnt-trade-for-popular-phil-kessel/

 

[ColePens]

AgentM..welcome back!

 

[Kristopher Letang]

You guys probably wanna draft a winger in the next draft. Kessel is everything you can hope and pray to find via the Draft. In Kessel, we can get a top-6 now, at his prime and for many more years. Crosby/Malkin can't be waiting many more years to get the winger they need. It's now or never. If it costs Pouliot & 1st, DO IT.

Maatta, Letang, Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Horny is good damn core for many more years

 

[Asuna]

There can only be one Agent....

 

[Darth Vitale]

Imagine Rossi vs Kessel interviews LOL.. ''You're an idiot Rob, it's embarrassing''

The next best thing to having Tortarella abusing Rossi (and rest assured, he would).

Kessel abusing Rossi is easily the third most likable thing about him after:

1) Jedi of the Twine
2) Makes excellent GIFs

In fact if he isn't abusing Rossi by the end of his first season here, I want him traded. That's not the Phil Kessel we know and love.

Made the mistake of taking a management position so that ended both my HF @ work time and my entire outside of work life

I always find time to get sucked back in for the big three though:

NHL Draft / July 1st

NHL Trade Deadline

NFL Draft

Yeah I hear ya. I got a new job a while back and then recently got promoted so that's mucked up my usual afternoon posting that I did for a long time throughout the season. The beauty of being freelance is now dead. Of course the evil of relying on contracts is also now dead. So I can't complain.

 

[AR5]

Imagine Rossi vs Kessel interviews LOL.. ''You're an idiot Rob, it's embarrassing''

OMG. Hadn't even thought of that.

I'm gonna tweet @ GMJR telling him it's worth Kessel for that alone.

GMJR won't have to be the sole Rob Rossi "Ice Cream Salesman" advocate once Phil comes to town.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Chicago has 33.3 million tied up in six players. Go down the list of every playoff team. Pretty much every one has 40 to 50 percent of their cap space tied up in five or fewer players.

Pretty much only teams that suck are more 'balanced' in cap space.

Go on, look up each team and see.

Being so-called top heavy is not a factor in not competing. It is a requirement.

But that is one of the truisms cited at HH all the time which is the most untrue.

Granted, you DO need a quality bottom six. You DO need quality bottom pairing defensemen. That comes from drafting well and signing the right people, not cannibalizing your elite top six or top pairing defensemen.

This mistake is my biggest pet peeve at HF.

The Pens did not fail because of mistakes in signing elite players. They failed everywhere else. And those failures had zero to do with signing the elite players that they did.

 

[AgentM]

AgentM..welcome back!

Thanks Cole, good to see you again

There can only be one Agent....

I'll slide back into obscurity in a week or so so don't worry too much

Yeah I hear ya. I got a new job a while back and then recently got promoted so that's mucked up my usual afternoon posting that I did for a long time throughout the season. The beauty of being freelance is now dead. Of course the evil of relying on contracts is also now dead. So I can't complain.

Glad to hear things are going well! As much as I feel good about moving up in my career, being married, having a house and nice car I still miss the old days of coming home from work and wasting a couple hours on here till my roommate got home and we'd play Borderlands for 10 hours haha

 

[Riptide]

http://thehockeywriters.com/penguins-shouldnt-trade-for-popular-phil-kessel/

I don't agree with all of their statements - specifically the bit about how we have to much money tied up in too few contracts. I think we could make it work - IF we didn't have anchors who are overpaid for their production... aka Dupuis, Kunitz and Scuderi. Sutter isn't the right player, but his salary is about right for what he brings.

You guys probably wanna draft a winger in the next draft. Kessel is everything you can hope and pray to find via the Draft. In Kessel, we can get a top-6 now, at his prime and for many more years. Crosby/Malkin can't be waiting many more years to get the winger they need. It's now or never. If it costs Pouliot & 1st, DO IT.

Of course. But that's not solely it. And no I don't place a ton of value on that 1st. Ideally we keep it, but for a long term solution, sure move it. If it was a matter of Kessel being the "only option" and choosing between him or making due with Kunitz and BB, yes I'd trade for him.

But that's not our only option. I'm choosing to get skilled effective wingers who won't cost as much so that we can still keep skilled players such as KK, BB, DP and our 1st. Guys who over the next 3 years will continue to make peanuts which will then give us depth and money to spend on other forwards.

You want to have success over the next three years? We're going to need cheap young players who can contribute. Trading them all away in hopes that Kessel is the solution only compounds the issue.

 

[Ogrezilla]

There can only be one Agent....

it took me way longer than I'd like to admit that you

I'll slide back into obscurity in a week or so so don't worry too much

aren't you

 

[Riptide]

Chicago has 33.3 million tied up in six players. Go down the list of every playoff team. Pretty much every one has 40 to 50 percent of their cap space tied up in five or fewer players.

Pretty much only teams that suck are more 'balanced' in cap space.

Go on, look up each team and see.

Being so-called top heavy is not a factor in not competing. It is a requirement.

But that is one of the truisms cited at HH all the time which is the most untrue.

Granted, you DO need a quality bottom six. You DO need quality bottom pairing defensemen. That comes from drafting well and signing the right people, not cannibalizing your elite top six or top pairing defensemen.

This mistake is my biggest pet peeve at HF.

The Pens did not fail because of mistakes in signing elite players. They failed everywhere else. And those failures had zero to do with signing the elite players that they did.

Agreed. However I think we're going to be making the issue worse and not better if we continue to trade away futures vs making more modest acquisitions.

 

[AgentM]

it took me way longer than I'd like to admit that you


aren't you

it takes a big man to admit it at all!

 

[AgentM]

Reality Check: So how bummed is everyone gonna be when we still have Kunitz, Scuderi, and Sutter on the roster next week at this time?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Agreed. However I think we're going to be making the issue worse and not better if we continue to trade away futures vs making more modest acquisitions.

Just is a pet peeve of mine, and has been for years. Likely the biggest untrue truism at HF.

That said, I still disagree with you, but would not have in previous years. We have cleared a ton of cap space this year including some of our mistakes, and can clear the rest if we try. The cap has gone up a nice chunk as well. Kessel could be signed and would solve one part of the wing problem, on the cheap believe it or not, for the rest of Crosby and Malkin's careers.

I am very tired of throwing bandaids at the wing position and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle. The Pens could make Kessel work, especially if Toronto takes Scuderi as part of the deal. The balance of the roster will depend on smart signings and kids stepping up, but what else is new? That is the same for every team.

In prior years adding a Kessel for $8 million a year would kill us. We can do it this year and beyond though.

 

[Asuna]

I'll slide back into obscurity in a week or so so don't worry too much

Hope not. You have a sweet avatar!

 

[plaidchuck]

People still.think the uber lucky 09 team.should be the model simply because they won.

 

[Asuna]

Reality Check: So how bummed is everyone gonna be when we still have Kunitz, Scuderi, and Sutter on the roster next week at this time?

Not as bummed as I'll be when they're all starting for the Penguins on opening night

 

[AgentM]

Hope not. You have a sweet avatar!

This Hayley pic has been my avatar for pretty much my entire run here!

Not as bummed as I'll be when they're all starting for the Penguins on opening night

True! I have a bad feeling it's gonna happen though. I want Kessel here for what he can bring to the team, but if helps get rid of Scuds or Kunitz's contracts then that's even better. If we don't get Kessel we'll probably end up adding Ward and Plotnikov and keeping Comeau and Bennett and calling it a boring offseason

 

[Bishop7979]

I do feel like Oshie, while not Kessel, is getting underestimated here. He's been a productive player playing for a coach whose system tends to limit creativity, skill and points. if he can put up 50 an 60 pt seasons under ken hitchcock with backes as his best linemate (no offense to backes i love the guy but he's not a top flight center) i would love to see what he can do with sid or geno.

While I would love to see one of these dream scenarios where we loose kunitz/scuds get Kessel and don't loose maata, I just can't see it happening.

And if Weds morning comes around and Kessel isn't on a plane to pittsburgh I would have no problem with Oshie being plan B