Washington REALLY helped by Kempny trade

[ChiHawks10]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

And? What's your point? I think it's possible he can be moved. But everything has to be absolutely perfect...

Dude, if you were GM of this team right now, they'd go into next season with two lines and a bunch of AHLers and 18 year olds playing in the bottom 6 and on defense.

That's a recipe for success! Definitely!

 

[ChiHawks10]

I’d disagree with you there. While they were both 50 point players this season, I think they will each end up being more impactful offensively than Saad.

Not with the current coach.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Are you blind, or just refusing to read it? He has a no trade clause. There's a lot more to moving him than you think... Jesus. It's like talking to a brick wall at this point.

And yes... it's a lateral move based upon production. Saad is a typical 50 point player, who had a bad year. Schmaltz and Cat were both 50 point players this season... It's the damn definition of lateral move with their production at this stage of their careers...

You just said in an earlier post that Cat is going to potentially get 7-9m per year. So is Bowman overpaying in that scenario? What makes Cat worth 7-9m if he has equal production to Saad?

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Not with the current coach.

I don’t think Q held Schmaltz back this year. Schmaltz held Schmaltz back by not shooting the dang puck.

He had nearly 100 fewer shots than Toews while playing similar ice time, and getting lots of offensive zone starts with Kane.

Schmaltz’ shooting percentage was great, but he just doesn’t want to pull the dang trigger for whatever reason.

DeBrincat on the other hand was a 50 point player in spite of being jerked around by Q.

So both are capable of 60-70 points IMO.

 

[ChiHawks10]

If its a lateral move based on production then make the argument Cat is worth more than 6m per? You just said in an earlier post that he’s going to get 7-9m per year. So is Bowman overpaying in that scenario? What makes Cat worth 7-9m if he has equal production to Saad?

This is why I don't ever bother debating anything with you and should have just agreed to disagree and walked away.

Cat's contract is up in TWO YEARS. As of right now, eliminating Saad to pay one of Schmaltz or Cat, would basically be a lateral move in production. And yes, under this current coach, I don't expect either to take huge strides forward this upcoming season with offensive production. I expect both probably finish around 55-65 points. And Saad likely finishes around 50 points. Again... very close to a lateral move at this point. Cat will probably have about 30/30, plus or minus a few points. Same for Schmaltz, basically. Although I expect with his tentativeness to shoot, he's probably more a 25-35 type of player, plus or minus a few points.

Cat, when coming up for his contract, will likely have 30+ goals in 3 straight seasons, including his rookie season. He will command 6 or 7m easily.

And at this point, I'm done with you and your constant spinning and twisting of shit. Your ideas were bad ones. Your scenarios were dream scenarios. Your "plan" is an abysmal one. End of discussion for me.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I don’t think Q held Schmaltz back this year. Schmaltz held Schmaltz back by not shooting the dang puck.

He had nearly 100 fewer shots than Toews while playing similar ice time, and getting lots of offensive zone starts with Kane.

Schmaltz’ shooting percentage was great, but he just doesn’t want to pull the dang trigger for whatever reason.

DeBrincat on the other hand was a 50 point player in spite of being jerked around by Q.

So both are capable of 60-70 points IMO.

Inconsistent lines and constant changing of positions helps no one. What did Schmaltz do? Play half the season as a wing, and half as a C? Something like that? Completely different mentalities have to be adjusted to/used in those two positions.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Inconsistent lines and constant changing of positions helps no one. What did Schmaltz do? Play half the season as a wing, and half as a C? Something like that? Completely different mentalities have to be adjusted to/used in those two positions.

Was it half the season at wing? I thought it was less than that.

He did consistently have Kane on his line though until the season finally went to shit, and Kane ended up with Toews.

At that point, Schmaltz looked good with DeBrincat.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

This is why I don't ever bother debating anything with you and should have just agreed to disagree and walked away.

Cat's contract is up in TWO YEARS. As of right now, eliminating Saad to pay one of Schmaltz or Cat, would basically be a lateral move in production. And yes, under this current coach, I don't expect either to take huge strides forward this upcoming season with offensive production. I expect both probably finish around 55-65 points. And Saad likely finishes around 50 points. Again... a lateral move at this point. Cat will probably have about 30/30. Same for Schmaltz, basically. Although I expect with his tentativeness to shoot, he's probably more a 25-35 type of player, plus or minus a few points.

Cat, when coming up for his contract, will likely have 30+ goals in 3 straight seasons, including his rookie season. He will command 6 or 7m easily.

They don’t need to move Saad right now. I specifically said Saad will have 2 years remaining when Cat needs a new deal and can be easily moved if necessary. The only move they’d need to do this summer is Anisimov.

 

[ChiHawks10]

They don’t need to move Saad right now. I specifically said Saad will have 2 years remaining when Cat needs a new deal and can be easily moved if necessary. The only move they’d need to do this summer is Anisimov.

Ok, in a perfect world, they sign Tavares, and move Anisimov. Go through the cap dollars and tell me how it works without letting go very good bottom 6 players/depth that is necessary, as well as explain how you think Tavares means a damn thing if their A. Goaltending blows, and B. Defense blows.

Walk out the lineup for this upcoming season, cap dollars included, with contracts for those needed, at a realistic number of about 79 or 80m as the hard cap.

This team needs to spend 10m in a much better way than just a single top 6 forward. There are far more holes than can be filled in with that one player at a monster cap hit.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

And? What's your point? I think it's possible he can be moved. But everything has to be absolutely perfect...

Dude, if you were GM of this team right now, they'd go into next season with two lines and a bunch of AHLers and 18 year olds playing in the bottom 6 and on defense.

That's a recipe for success! Definitely!

No they wouldn’t. Trade Rutta and Anisimov, LTIR Hossa and they keep the entire team plus sign a big free agent. Its not likely they sign Tavares. Honestly think Carlsson is more likely. I’m just laying out the case for the cap working out after next year in a Tavares scenario.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Was it half the season at wing? I thought it was less than that.

He did consistently have Kane on his line though until the season finally went to ****, and Kane ended up with Toews.

At that point, Schmaltz looked good with DeBrincat.

It's probably not half and half. But he played quite a bit at the two different positions. And on different lines constantly.

 

[ChiHawks10]

No they wouldn’t. Trade Rutta and Anisimov, LTIR Hossa and they keep the entire team plus sign a big free agent. Its not likely they sign Tavares. Honestly think Carlsson is more likely. I’m just laying out the case for the cap working out after next year in a Tavares scenario.

Hossa's cap dollars can't really be spent prior to the season. He counts against the cap up until game 1. AFAIK.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Hossa's cap dollars can't really be spent prior to the season. He counts against the cap up until game 1. AFAIK.

Correct, Hossa’s cap hit counts during the offseason. The Hawks must be cap compliant during game 1 of the season.

 

[AmericanDream]

 

[ChiHawks10]

Correct, Hossa’s cap hit counts during the offseason. The Hawks must be cap compliant during game 1 of the season.

Yeah, so the current Hawks roster is 17 players under contract without Hino or Hayden, and they have 11m in cap space. So trade AA, let Hino and Hayden walk, sign Tavares.

Your roster is this.

LW: Saad, Ejdsell, Kahun, Knott
C: Toews, Tavares, Schmaltz, Kero
RW: Kane, Cat, Sikura, X
Hossa*

D: Keith, Gus, Forsling, Seabs, Murphy, Rutta

G: Crow, Forsberg

With 700k available to them with Tavares at 9x8.

Yeah, much better team, and going to win a Cup. Definitely worth the big, long-term signing of Tavares, and no money to sign Hayden or Hino unless they trade away 4-5m in cap.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Yeah, so the current Hawks roster is 17 players under contract without Hino or Hayden, and they have 11m in cap space. So trade AA, let Hino and Hayden walk, sign Tavares.

Your roster is this.

LW: Saad, Ejdsell, Kahun, Knott
C: Toews, Tavares, Schmaltz, Kero
RW: Kane, Cat, Sikura, X
Hossa*

D: Keith, Gus, Forsling, Seabs, Murphy, Rutta

G: Crow, Forsberg

With 700k available to them with Tavares at 9x8.

Yeah, much better team, and going to win a Cup. Definitely worth the big, long-term signing of Tavares, and no money to sign Hayden or Hino unless they trade away 4-5m in cap.

If the ceiling is 80m (realistic with vegas in final and its midpoint of rumored projection in december) and they trade Anisimov and Rutta for picks, they have ~2m in cap space with a 21man roster (would be 23) and Hino, Hayden and Duclair re-signed at 2.25m, 1.25m and 1m respectively. And thats assuming Hossa doesn’t hit LTIR until after day 1 or they trade him to a team like Arizona. Maybe capfriendly doesn’t have the right bonus overages. It says 2.065m.

 

[ChiHawks10]

So basically a dream scenario of everything going right, moving players they need to for simply picks, signing guys at ideal cap hits, and Hossa not counting against the cap on day1, which I believe he has to...

At which point, half your salary cap is eaten up by 4 contracts for at least two seasons, and much more if there is no compliance buyout, and then having to trade away more players to sign Cat and Schmaltz. Decimating the depth.

No thanks.

Not sure why anyone who is a Hawks fan would want to be strapped down and in cap hell again just when they're getting out of it. To each their own I guess.

 

[migi]

I just say this: if Hawks want to make a splash, Hossa’s contract will be in Arizona.

Tavares is pipe dream but it’s possible. I don’t think adding Tavares puts us over the top though.

I would rather go after Karlsson even though it’s most likely for one year.

I understand why some are against going all-in for next season. I like both scenarios. I just think that Karlsson could hoist the Cup next spring in Hawk jersey.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Well, you were talking about them moving Anisimov. Moving Hossa’s contract to a cap floor team is very realistic, not exactly a pipedream scenario. Same for the cap ceiling which is a number straight from the NHL in December, before Vegas went to a Stanley Cup Final. 78-79 might be a conservative number at this point. 80 seems pretty reasonable. I don’t think any of this is a dream scenario. Dream scenario would be trading Seabrook with no retainment to fit in Tavares.

 

[Toews2Bickell]

Cap hell only matters when the players that put you in it suck. See Detroit. Cap hell is fine when the players are elite. See Hawks 2010-2015.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Well, you were talking about them moving Anisimov. Moving Hossa’s contract to a cap floor team is very realistic, not exactly a pipedream scenario. Same for the cap ceiling which is a number straight from the NHL in December, before Vegas went to a Stanley Cup Final. 78-79 might be a conservative number at this point. 80 seems pretty reasonable. I don’t think any of this is a dream scenario. Dream scenario would be trading Seabrook with no retainment to fit in Tavares.

It is though. You're talking everything going perfectly the Hawks way in a very imperfect world and putting the Hawks in cap hell again, while not putting this team over the top to contender status.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Cap hell only matters when the players that put you in it suck. See Detroit. Cap hell is fine when the players are elite. See Hawks 2010-2015.

Do you not see how it's very bad to have 4 salaries accounting for nearly half your salary cap? It eliminates your ability to field a deep team, unless you get lucky, and all your draft picks hit and develop into outstanding players while on ELCs, like the Hawks had for the 2009-2015 run. Possible? Sure. Probable? Nah. So much had to go right for the Hawks to do what they did. I think the management can do it again, but not by signing another 10m contract and eliminating your flexibility for depth.

I'd much prefer they continue to build this team back up through the draft and some quality, shrewd FA signings, and not a single elite player at a 9-10m cap hit.

Question. Do you think Tavares alone makes this team a Cup contender? If your answer is no, then it's a terrible waste of 10m in cap space. Because you have holes everywhere and no cap money/flexibility to fill them.

 

[BobbyJet]

I'd argue you're terribly underrating the current talent on the roster. Coaching is a big, big deal.

As long as Q is at the helm we won't know for certain the real talent, the potential of which seems to be untapped under the current coaching staff. But that said, the back end is especially vulnerable - needs stability in the short term or the pain will continue.

 

[Robsker]

adding a single big FA makes no sense. the hawks are at least 5 players away from being really competitive. They Need a 1st pairing D-man, they need 2 2nd pairing D-men, they need a scoring top-6 forward and they need a goalie. Five guys. 5 Guys young, with speed and energy. Tying up Cap space w/ another big salary would be beyond foolish. The Hawks system under this coach is not likely to enable any roster the Hawks assemble to be a playoff team next year --- or even close to a playoff team. So... the Hawks take their lumps this next season finishing last in the division (or 2nd to last) and then the following year, with a new coach and hopefully some of the younger guys more developed, the Hawks start trending up.

For this year, seek after multiple, cheap, young and hopeful kids and develop them. Accelerate guys from the Rock and see what they have. that is, this next season is a training grounds for the future --- and tying up a great deal of $ in a single contract reduces flexibility.

If the Hawks were a player away, sure. But the Hawks are 5 players away. No Tavares. No Karlsen. No thanks.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Tavares would be a more impactful UFA than Hossa was, and he's arguably the best UFA signing of the last 10 years.

We're not talking Paul Stastny here. He's an excellent player and would give us a filthy 1-2 punch at center and give us one of the best top 6's in the league

DBC-Toews-Saad
Schmaltz-Tavares-Kane