W/C Mikko Rantanen (2015, 10th, COL) II

[Gsus]

Simply because Aho is way better as a player. I am not at all impressed with Rantanen's inefficient play at the top top level. Aho has scored with ease in every other top level that he has played at, except the world cup (but there the whole team was inefficient anyway).

I couldn't care less how majestic or sexy the gameplay, skating or whatever looks like when a player like Rantanen is playing, as long as he is so damn inefficient at the top level. And he is already physically a very well developed young player, unlike Aho or Laine are.

It just bothers me when some people seriously lift Rantanen in their comments to the same level that Laine and Aho are at already. He is not there definitely now and I'm practically sure he will never be even close to the player that both Laine and Aho will become. I have simply nothing else against Rantanen, except that he is damn inefficient at top level play. With last night he has already 11 games in the NHL with 0+0. He just lacks the intensity and the hunger that really good players have.

That really tells nothing. It just tells that he wasn't ready a year ago. Then he went to A and was the rookie of the year in there. This year will show more, so now that he's ready we should look how this season progresses. Adding two small sample sizes together is silly.

He's coming back from injury and for sure isn't a 100% right now. Give him time and he will show you something. I don't care who ends up having more points with him and Aho, but you are pretty much going to eat your words when he starts to produce at NHL level. Shouldn't take long.

 

[Snowsii]

I wonder what role he will fit in. You have Rantanen, Puljujärvi, Tolvanen, Vesalainen, all potential 1st/2nd liners. How good is he at goal scoring?

He'll most likely be 3rd / 4th liner in Finnsh nat team @ 2022 Olympics ( All four lines are scoring units, as hockey seems to be going that direction)

His size and two-way game, makes him excellent "shutdown" player and on top of that.. He can also score.

 

[93LEAFS]

Rantanen has looked fine at the NHL this season from what I saw. He seems capable of making smart quick passes and getting into good positions. He has a great opportunity playing with Mackinnon, although it will be interesting to see how their games mesh. I think we can discount what happened in the NHL last year, it is quite clear he wasn't put in a position to succeed. Playing 4th line or defensive minutes with Soderberg isn't a great way to break someone in on the D+1 season. Luckily for Avs fans, whatever the hell Roy's approach was he decided to leave with.

 

[Ippenator]

That really tells nothing. It just tells that he wasn't ready a year ago. Then he went to A and was the rookie of the year in there. This year will show more, so now that he's ready we should look how this season progresses. Adding two small sample sizes together is silly.

He's coming back from injury and for sure isn't a 100% right now. Give him time and he will show you something. I don't care who ends up having more points with him and Aho, but you are pretty much going to eat your words when he starts to produce at NHL level. Shouldn't take long.

I definitely hope I'm wrong and you are right. Rantanen is in fact a very likeable player, because of his open and quite charismatic personality. He has also some serious skills and the strength and size that should help him a lot in the NHL. But I also see it that way, that if he would be a real top class talent, he would have managed to score at least some points in his first 11 NHL games, or the men's WHC he played at last spring. Aho and Laine have scored like crazy when you combine their WHC and NHL scoring. Rantanen is 2 years older than Laine and 1 year older than Aho, and he is physically so much ahead of either of them, that it really has to come up to what their real talents are as complete hockey players.

But as I have already mentioned, I truly hope that I am wrong with all this, and Mikko proves that he is after all a superstar caliber talent.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

I also see it that way, that if he would be a real top class talent, he would have managed to score at least some points in his first 11 NHL games, or the men's WHC he played at last spring. Aho and Laine have scored like crazy when you combine their WHC and NHL scoring. Rantanen is 2 years older than Laine and 1 year older than Aho, and he is physically so much ahead of either of them, that it really has to come up to what their real talents are as complete hockey players.

He was on the 4th line last season, how many points was he supposed to score with those minutes and linemates? You're looking way too much at numbers.

 

[Makkeli]

Seriously Ippenator, have you watched any of those 11 games Rantanen has played? Or are you just watching stats and then you make these stupid claims? You haven't mentioned even once that you had watched those games, so I guess you are just looking at stats so maybe you should watch some of his games?

 

[Visul]

The first two games indicate that he will start producing soon. He seems to be even more explosive skater than last season and also looks huge on ice. When Mikko and MacKinnon will get used to each other better they will be dangerous duo. They have shown some flashes already.

Like 93LEAFS said his last season's NHL stats (or Worlds stats) are irrelevant to where he really stands atm. Everybody should know that.

 

[Ippenator]

Seriously Ippenator, have you watched any of those 11 games Rantanen has played? Or are you just watching stats and then you make these stupid claims? You haven't mentioned even once that you had watched those games, so I guess you are just looking at stats so maybe you should watch some of his games?

I have watched 8 of his 11 NHL games (both of his games this season) and all of his games in the Finnish national team. So for sure I have seen him play. I said that I will not care at all how good a player looks while he plays, if he is still statistically achieving nothing. I don't look for flashy plays, but for real results. One and one dekes and all the fancy stuff don't mean anything to me if the player can't deliver his stats, goals and wins.

Every single real top class forward talent I have followed has managed to score points in their first 20 NHL and national team games. Rantanen has done what? 1 assist in about 20 combined NHL and national team games. Aho has almost 20 points in the same amount of games and Laine has over 20 points in the same amount of games.

Rantanen fan boys can hide as much as they want behind his smaller minutes, but the fact is still that Laine and Aho have earned and gained their bigger minutes by being way better than Rantanen. And this way it goes with all the real top class talents. And this is the biggest reason why I don't see Rantanen even close to the class that Laine and Aho are at. Remember that Aho is one year younger and Laine even two years younger than Rantanen. And both of them are still way behind Rantanen with their physical development, but way ahead of him as productive hockey players at the top level.

 

[BB88]

Simply because Aho is way better as a player. I am not at all impressed with Rantanen's inefficient play at the top level. Aho has scored with ease in every other top level that he has played at, except the world cup (but there the whole team was inefficient anyway).

I couldn't care less how majestic or sexy the gameplay, skating or whatever looks like when a player like Rantanen is playing, as long as he is so damn inefficient at the top level. And he is already physically a very well developed young player, unlike Aho or Laine are.

It just bothers me when some people seriously lift Rantanen in their comments to the same level that Laine and Aho are at already. He is not there definitely now and I'm practically sure he will never be even close to the player that both Laine and Aho will become. I have simply nothing else against Rantanen, except that he is damn inefficient at top level play. With last night he has already 11 games in the NHL with 0+0. He just lacks the intensity and the hunger that really good players have.

This is just a ridiculous post, not surprisingly though.

Aho wouldn't have done anything in the NHL last year either, and Rantanen dominated AHL in his rookie season.

He seems to be build for NA game, he's been one of the best forwards for Colorado in these 2 games. But I guess you are again ignoring the fact that he is returning from injury. I like Aho a lot, he makes lots of smart plays, has offensive gift, skates well, quick edge work but so does Rantanen, and he will always have size advantage, he will be a nightmare to go 1on1 because of his size, strenght& ability to protect the puck.
Rantanen is coaches dream, he's the hardest working player on the ice.

 

[Goulet17]

I don't know, it has always seemed stranged to me how a couple of posters are so negative towards Rantanen. It's almost as if they feel threatened, as if Rantanen playing well somehow lessens the perception of other Finnish players like Laine or Aho.

Giving Rantanen praise does not mean that others are any less enamored with Laine or Aho. They should not be mutually exclusive concepts.

Sometimes I feel like Aho's relatives are posting on this board.

 

[Ippenator]

I don't know, it has always seemed stranged to me how a couple of posters are so negative towards Rantanen. It's almost as if they feel threatened, as if Rantanen playing well somehow lessens the perception of other Finnish players like Laine or Aho.

Giving Rantanen praise does not mean that others are any less enamored with Laine or Aho. They should not be mutually exclusive concepts.

Sometimes I feel like Aho's relatives are posting on this board.

When Rantanen plays well at the top level I will be among the first ones to give him recognition. Until that I have my strong doubs on him. He has never delivered statistically and with the real meaningful results at the top level. As I mentioned already many times, for me hockey is first of all about results. If someone looks good in many ways but is still consistently inefficient, I don't see that kind of a player as a very good player at all.

Rantanen has not been able to deliver in an impressive way anywhere else than in the AHL, and that means practically nothing in the NHL. Pulkkinen was even more impressive in the AHL, and he can do almost nothing in the NHL. I have a bad feeling that Rantanen will not be much more efficient than him in the NHL. But as I have said before, I would be very happy, if he proves me wrong.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I don't give a crap what Laine and Aho are doing, this is the Rantanen thread. I'm sure you can start a comparison thread if that's what you want to discuss.

I have watched every single one of the games Rantanen has played since coming over to North America. He is a special player and I watched him countless times craft magic on that horrible AHL team. So I really don't care about these hollow arguments. I'm not looking for him to get love from the echo chamber, I care about him helping the Avs win.

If MacKinnon could bury a puck right now Rantanen would already have a couple assists. He also should have had one last night on the PP too. He's getting quality minutes with good linemates, first unit pp time and has created a lot of scoring chances, shots on goal, good possession metrics and looks good to the eye test. Also made a huge back check that saved a goal last night. There is nothing to worry about at all.

 

[Avs44]

When Rantanen plays well at the top level I will be among the first ones to give him recognition. Until that I have my strong doubs on him. He has never delivered statistically and with the real meaningful results at the top level. As I mentioned already many times, for me hockey is first of all about results. If someone looks good in many ways but is still consistently inefficient, I don't see that kind of a player as a very good player at all.

Rantanen has not been able to deliver in an impressive way anywhere else than in the AHL, and that means practically nothing in the NHL. Pulkkinen was even more impressive in the AHL, and he can do almost nothing in the NHL. I have a bad feeling that Rantanen will not be much more efficient than him in the NHL. But as I have said before, I would be very happy, if he proves me wrong.

And what are you basing this fear on? 11 games at the NHL level, 9 of which were on the Avs' fourth line? You should probably go look up what "consistent" means, because I don't think the sample size you're using is even close to large enough to make a statement like that.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Don't understand how anyone who actually watched any games could say anything negative about Rantanen. He was Colorado's best forward in his first game and was second best to Duchene in his second game.

 

[93LEAFS]

When Rantanen plays well at the top level I will be among the first ones to give him recognition. Until that I have my strong doubs on him. He has never delivered statistically and with the real meaningful results at the top level. As I mentioned already many times, for me hockey is first of all about results. If someone looks good in many ways but is still consistently inefficient, I don't see that kind of a player as a very good player at all.

Rantanen has not been able to deliver in an impressive way anywhere else than in the AHL, and that means practically nothing in the NHL. Pulkkinen was even more impressive in the AHL, and he can do almost nothing in the NHL. I have a bad feeling that Rantanen will not be much more efficient than him in the NHL. But as I have said before, I would be very happy, if he proves me wrong.

Rantanen scored more as a 19-year-old in the AHL than Pulkkinen did as a 21-year-old. Looking at this, most guys who score at a comparable rate to Rantanen as an U-20-year-old in the recent era have fared quite well. Nylander looks pretty good right now, plus there is Pastrnak, Bergeron, Hudler, Palmieri, Okposo and Spezza. There are some notable busts like Filatov, and Schroeder. I'd ignore the guys with less than 20 games as that is way too small a sample size.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/leagu...&leagueteam=&sort=u20&nation=&name=&order=PPG

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

Flavour of the month crowd..
You know, on Halloween in 1992 they were lining up to give the Calder trophy to Eric Lindros.
70-odd goals later all first votes went to a Salami

Nothing Rantanen has done or not done so far, in any way diminishes his likelihood of being an average 10th overall pick type of player. He is going on to be good, his entire career.

 

[Ippenator]

Rantanen scored more as a 19-year-old in the AHL than Pulkkinen did as a 21-year-old. Looking at this, most guys who score at a comparable rate to Rantanen as an U-20-year-old in the recent era have fared quite well. Nylander looks pretty good right now, plus there is Pastrnak, Bergeron, Hudler, Palmieri, Okposo and Spezza. There are some notable busts like Filatov, and Schroeder. I'd ignore the guys with less than 20 games as that is way too small a sample size.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/leagu...&leagueteam=&sort=u20&nation=&name=&order=PPG

Good post here. You have a good point. I will wait and see and rest my case so far. I will give him also the recognition he deserves if he after all shows that he can after all be an efficient player at the top top level.

 

[klozge]

He's really good. Looks even bigger on the ice than he already is. He just commands respect. Also very smart, very complete although he obviously still has to learn a few things. I had high expectations this year but he even managed to surprise me in his first two games of the season.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Kid was our best forward against Winnipeg on Friday night I thought. And although I didn't get to watch the game last night, I read a lot of Avs fans talk about him being ridiculously good again last night.



One thing I did notice from the highlights of last night was that he had some good chances and just couldn't bury them. It looks to me like he's putting to much pressure on himself right now trying to bury that first one.



I have little doubt that one he finds the back of the net for the 1st time(Which will be very, very soon given how he's playing) and that weight gets lifted he's going to come on really strong.



Still confidently believe he'll be a contender for the Calder come March month.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

I definitely hope I'm wrong and you are right. Rantanen is in fact a very likeable player, because of his open and quite charismatic personality. He has also some serious skills and the strength and size that should help him a lot in the NHL. But I also see it that way, that if he would be a real top class talent, he would have managed to score at least some points in his first 11 NHL games, or the men's WHC he played at last spring. Aho and Laine have scored like crazy when you combine their WHC and NHL scoring. Rantanen is 2 years older than Laine and 1 year older than Aho, and he is physically so much ahead of either of them, that it really has to come up to what their real talents are as complete hockey players.

But as I have already mentioned, I truly hope that I am wrong with all this, and Mikko proves that he is after all a superstar caliber talent.

His first six games he really wasn't ready, especially in the role they put him in. So he got sent down and later called back up. There is more than half of your short 11 game sample size. Then after being called up he was not put in a scoring role at all, so judging his numbers there is pointless. He did look good though and was only sent back down after 3 games so that his contract would slide. This year he has played 2 games.

 

[cgf]

Simply because Aho is way better as a player. I am not at all impressed with Rantanen's inefficient play at the top level. Aho has scored with ease in every other top level that he has played at, except the world cup (but there the whole team was inefficient anyway).

I couldn't care less how majestic or sexy the gameplay, skating or whatever looks like when a player like Rantanen is playing, as long as he is so damn inefficient at the top level. And he is already physically a very well developed young player, unlike Aho or Laine are.

It just bothers me when some people seriously lift Rantanen in their comments to the same level that Laine and Aho are at already. He is not there definitely now and I'm practically sure he will never be even close to the player that both Laine and Aho will become. I have simply nothing else against Rantanen, except that he is damn inefficient at top level play. With last night he has already 11 games in the NHL with 0+0. He just lacks the intensity and the hunger that really good players have.

You don't care about it because you don't watch Mikko play. That's fine, but don't pretend to know anything about the player when you clearly don't.

He was on the 4th line last season, how many points was he supposed to score with those minutes and linemates? You're looking way too much at numbers.

Nonsense. It's Rantanen's fault that a noted goal scorer like Cody McCleod didn't convert on even 1 of the many chances Mikko fed him during their 9 minutes of icetime.

 

[eddie416]

You don't care about it because you don't watch Mikko play. That's fine, but don't pretend to know anything about the player when you clearly don't.

Give the thread a more careful read before attacking people

I have watched 8 of his 11 NHL games (both of his games this season) and all of his games in the Finnish national team. So for sure I have seen him play.

Everyone is allowed their opinion

 

[cgf]

Give the thread a more careful read before attacking people



Everyone is allowed their opinion

He can claim whatever he wants, but his comments speak loudly to the truth of those claims.

 

[BB88]

You don't care about it because you don't watch Mikko play. That's fine, but don't pretend to know anything about the player when you clearly don't.

I'm really struggling with this Rantanen hasn't produced on top level while Aho has produced easily thinking.

Rantanen scored 28 points in 56 games in Liiga in his draft year, got A on his chest during the season, Aho scored 11 points in 27 games on that same year.
Rantanen scored 60 points in 52 games in his +1 year on new league, while Aho scored 45 points in 45 games in Liiga on his +1 year.

How does that make Aho to be on the highest tier of Finnish players and Rantanen on the secondary tier.

 

[cgf]

I'm really struggling with this Rantanen hasn't produced on top level while Aho has produced easily thinking.

Rantanen scored 28 points in 56 games in Liiga in his draft year, got A on his chest during the season, Aho scored 11 points in 27 games on that same year.
Rantanen scored 60 points in 52 games in his +1 year on new league, while Aho scored 45 points in 45 games in Liiga on his +1 year.

How does that make Aho to be on the highest tier of Finnish players and Rantanen on the secondary tier.

Well Aho never spent 9 games at the NHL level getting less than 10 minutes a game next to grinders...