Value of: Vlasic to Montreal

[KevinRedkey]

Vlasic and his sweetheart contract are an integral part to his cup contending team. I would assume it would take a massive over-payment to get him out of San Jose this year. He's pretty much as unavailable as it gets.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Patches is clearly ahead of Couture over the past few seasons. 2nd most GWGs, 3rd most goals in the NHL in the past few seasons.

I'll take the one that scored 30 points in 24 playoff games last year, though.

I agree with every other Sharks fan/outsider that says only Galchenyuk+Sergachev would make me interested. I also understand why that would be bad for Montreal and why they wouldn't do it. But even that trade wouldn't make the Sharks better this season, which is likely our last of true contention.

But for argument's sake, what makes you think that Vlasic would be anything but a slam-dunk to sign? Playing next to Weber (which he loves), playing in front of Price (which he would be insane to not love), playing in Montreal for an up and coming sort of team, I can't see how he wouldn't want to keep playing there if he already had a year or two there under his belt.

 

[Legend123]

I'll take the one that scored 30 points in 24 playoff games last year, though.

I agree with every other Sharks fan/outsider that says only Galchenyuk+Sergachev would make me interested. I also understand why that would be bad for Montreal and why they wouldn't do it. But even that trade wouldn't make the Sharks better this season, which is likely our last of true contention.

But for argument's sake, what makes you think that Vlasic would be anything but a slam-dunk to sign? Playing next to Weber (which he loves), playing in front of Price (which he would be insane to not love), playing in Montreal for an up and coming sort of team, I can't see how he wouldn't want to keep playing there if he already had a year or two there under his belt.

emmm when did I say it wouldnt be a slam dunk?? I said vlasic is not a given to resign given hes a UFA in 2 years time. Maybe he wants to test the market, maybe he didnt like the pressure or how he was handled in his time in mtl. Or maybe he struggled and wants a fresh start. Resigning UFAs is harder than resigning RFAs.
But yes, I would love Vlasic in mtl but not at the price of Galchenyuk.

 

[Nolan11]

While Vlasic is a non-starter, Paul Martin might be a better possibility for you to discuss. He was/is a good left-side partner for Burns. He has a limited NTC but I assume you are not on his no-fly list. If interested, make us an offer (and if EMELIN is in your offer, best start with 50% retained.)

 

[One Winged Angel]

I doubt you truly understand the Sharks perspective then. You may understand the perspective of the want for a return like that but you're not really understanding the Sharks' perspective on something like this. It's not saying Vlasic is worth that return or that he'd get that return. It's saying that his value to the team right now in the position that they're in is worth substantially more than what his value may be in a vacuum or under different circumstances. Sharks have forward depth to where Galchenyuk isn't as valuable to them on the trade market as it would be to other teams. Sharks have historically had issues developing top end defensemen and replacing someone like Vlasic in general is tough to do unless you're good at drafting and developing them. Sharks aren't really good at that relatively speaking.

No, I completely understand what you're saying. I actually illustrated it from the other side. I understand the hole it creates for SJ to get rid of Vlasic. 24+ minute per night defenders who are effective in those tough minutes are hard to come by and highly sought after come playoff time.

However, so are 22 year old 30 goal scorers on their 1st or 2nd NHL deals. Any competitive team that has either of these pieces (which I should have said those words, verbatim) is not going to give up piece(s) like that at the deadline when trying to compete for the cup.

I absolutely understand that Vlasic is more of a need for SJ with their incredible depth, as opposed to Galchenyuk.

 

[BillR10]

Where Patches wasnt even playing? lol

And also for you one postseason outmatches 5 years of NHL??? haha

Ok, so let's go back further if you want.

Couture points per game for career .75
Patches points per game for career .72

Couture has also centered the sharks shutdown line.

You actually thought patches was that much more valuable than couture?

Fyi, their value is close but I'd take the proven center over a wing any day of the week and twice on Sunday

 

[KevinRedkey]

Ok, so let's go back further if you want.

Couture points per game for career .75
Patches points per game for career .72

Couture has also centered the sharks shutdown line.

You actually thought patches was that much more valuable than couture?

Fyi, their value is close but I'd take the proven center over a wing any day of the week and twice on Sunday

This season + last year:
Couture: 0.68
Patches: 0.78

This season + last 2 years:
Couture: 0.76
Patches: 0.81

This season + last 3 years:
Couture: 0.78
Patches: 0.81

This season + last 4 years (4th year being the partial lockout):
Couture: 0.77
Patches: 0.82

I'm not trying to undercut your argument (I get it and partially agree), but using career stats is a little silly. The stats above are much more relevant than Couture having a better start to his career.

Personally, I think Patches has a slight edge offensively, as well as defensively on an individual basis. I think Couture plays the more important position and makes his linemates better as a whole. In terms of value, C > W si I'm inclined to say Couture is more valuable (contracts aside), but an argument could be made that Patches is the better player. They are very comparable in terms of wingers vs centers.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I have no problems giving Patches the slight edge offensively but there's nothing really there to suggest he is better defensively than Couture and even if we assumed they were equal defensively, the fact that Couture's a center and Patches is a winger tips that scale in his favor. In reality, Couture simply does more for his team than Patches and he's a better all-around player than Patches which is what I said in the first place.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I'm sorry, in what bizarro world is Max Pacioretty better than Logan Couture defensively?

 

[snipes]

As much as I value Vlasic, I certainly cant value him as much as Galchenyuk. Adding Sergechev is crazy.

Vlasic is the best Dman in the NHL in his own zone. I can't even believe what I'm reading, I hate the Sharks but that statement is just wow.

A player like Malkin or Benn would be close to fair value for Vlasic.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Vlasic is the best Dman in the NHL in his own zone. I can't even believe what I'm reading, I hate the Sharks but that statement is just wow.

A player like Malkin or Benn would be close to fair value for Vlasic.

Okay, that's a little over the top.

 

[snipes]

Okay, that's a little over the top.

How? Dmen have an all-time high value. Not saying a deal like that would ever happen, but one for one that's the ballpark Vlasic is in. Why do you think Team Canada values him so highly?

Galchenyuk certainly isn't pulling Vlasic one for one. Vlasic helps a team win hockey games, plain and simple. His defensive zone abilities are the best in the NHL, that has enormous value.

 

[Gecklund]

How? Dmen have an all-time high value. Not saying a deal like that would ever happen, but one for one that's the ballpark Vlasic is in. Why do you think Team Canada values him so highly?

Galchenyuk certainly isn't pulling Vlasic one for one. Vlasic helps a team win hockey games, plain and simple. His defensive zone abilities are the best in the NHL, that has enormous value.

I agree it's a little bit over the top. Vlasic is fantastic but Benn and Malkin are top 10 players in the league. Galchenyuk definitely has less value than Vlasic.

 

[snipes]

I agree it's a little bit over the top. Vlasic is fantastic but Benn and Malkin are top 10 players in the league. Galchenyuk definitely has less value than Vlasic.

Perhaps Backstrom type territory is more palatable? Maybe I'm biased, I value defensive zone shut down abilities very highly because I think it is highly conducive to winning and provides tangible, measurable results for a teams record.

Vlasic being a mainstay on Team Canada over players like Subban and Letang for example should give some insight into the value that hockey minds give to defensive defenceman who can dominate in their zone.

 

[Gecklund]

Perhaps Backstrom type territory is more palatable? Maybe I'm biased, I value defensive zone shut down abilities very highly because I think it is highly conducive to winning and provides tangible, measurable results for a teams record.

Vlasic being a mainstay on Team Canada over players like Subban and Letang for example should give some insight into the value that hockey minds give to defensive defenceman who can dominate in their zone.

I think Backstrom is more plausible. They value Vlasic more because they already have Keith and Doughty and they need players better in their zone

 

[snipes]

I think Backstrom is more plausible. They value Vlasic more because they already have Keith and Doughty and they need players better in their zone

No one is better in their own zone than Vlasic, his gap control is the best in the game. His ability to close off passing lanes and keep forwards to the outside is clinical.

Vlasic is also excellent on the breakout and moving the puck up ice under forecheck pressure. If you're not looking for it you can miss how good he is in his own zone, he's got full command in the defensive zone.

I was talking to another Sharks fan earlier, I'd take Vlasic over Burns 10 times out of 10. Not an insult to Burns, that's just how good I think Vlasic is. A player like Vlasic helps a team win more.

 

[Stuzchuk]

hey... just to give you an idea on who Marc-Edouard Vlasic is

-have been chosen as top shutdown defenseman for team Canada (with Weber)
-is on the first pairing in SJ
-is currently being considered by many hockey analyst as the best defensive DMan in the league
-is only 29 y/o

and you best offer is that.... WTF dude. Adam Larsson got NJ Taylor Hall... So my guess would be that you'll need a combination of Gallagher, Galchenyuk or Paccioretti with a 1st and/or good prospect to get him out of SJ

 

[weastern bias]

I'm sorry, in what bizarro world is Max Pacioretty better than Logan Couture defensively?

Some sort of fantasy land

 

[Legend123]

hey... just to give you an idea on who Marc-Edouard Vlasic is

-have been chosen as top shutdown defenseman for team Canada (with Weber)
-is on the first pairing in SJ
-is currently being considered by many hockey analyst as the best defensive DMan in the league
-is only 29 y/o

and you best offer is that.... WTF dude. Adam Larsson got NJ Taylor Hall... So my guess would be that you'll need a combination of Gallagher, Galchenyuk or Paccioretti with a 1st and/or good prospect to get him out of SJ

Dude we all know who he is. One of the best, as most of us have said, read plz. The problem is not the player but his contract. Trading a promising player like Galchenyuk for Vlasic benefits the team trading Galchy but that team loses on years of control on a young player and gets only a sure 2 year of Vlasic. Thats a big risk. Would you take that risk with Stone??
But for the Habs it actually hurts them horribly, they cant roll with Pleks and DD as the top 2 Cs, that would hurt my eyes. You gotta consider org needs. The habs have 4 good top 4 D as of now. They only have 4 good top 6 wingers. Habs should look at after a Center. So if its the shaks, its Marleau and not Vlasic.

 

[Legend123]

Some sort of fantasy land

SJS fans cant actually whos better without concrete evidence. Its obv fans will prefer their own player plus i doubt it that you watch the Habs and Patches play liike u watch ur sharks.
Btw patches was, i believe 5th in Selke trophy two seasons ago. Im curious what was Couture's highest rank for the selke (no idea, just asking).

 

[Pinkfloyd]

SJS fans cant actually whos better without concrete evidence. Its obv fans will prefer their own player plus i doubt it that you watch the Habs and Patches play liike u watch ur sharks.
Btw patches was, i believe 5th in Selke trophy two seasons ago. Im curious what was Couture's highest rank for the selke (no idea, just asking).

Honestly, how reliable do you think Selke voting really is for judging defensive ability for a player? I mean, Joe Thornton was 5th last year in Selke voting. He's not even the second best defensive forward on the Sharks. The only time that that even has a modicum of relevance in this type of conversation is when it's between two players who get the same kind of publicity. That is not the case in this situation.

 

[Phry]

Dude we all know who he is. One of the best, as most of us have said, read plz. The problem is not the player but his contract. Trading a promising player like Galchenyuk for Vlasic benefits the team trading Galchy but that team loses on years of control on a young player and gets only a sure 2 year of Vlasic. Thats a big risk. Would you take that risk with Stone??
But for the Habs it actually hurts them horribly, they cant roll with Pleks and DD as the top 2 Cs, that would hurt my eyes. You gotta consider org needs. The habs have 4 good top 4 D as of now. They only have 4 good top 6 wingers. Habs should look at after a Center. So if its the shaks, its Marleau and not Vlasic.

It should be noted that Marleau probably will be disappointing if aquired.

 

[Legend123]

It should be noted that Marleau probably will be disappointing if aquired.

i doubt he will disappoint more than Plekanec, whos an offensive blackhole. If you dont believe me, then you may have him for Marleau

 

[Legend123]

Honestly, how reliable do you think Selke voting really is for judging defensive ability for a player? I mean, Joe Thornton was 5th last year in Selke voting. He's not even the second best defensive forward on the Sharks. The only time that that even has a modicum of relevance in this type of conversation is when it's between two players who get the same kind of publicity. That is not the case in this situation.

well its from the opinion of experts who prob more than the both of us

 

[dcmanitopyes]

This season + last year:
Couture: 0.68
Patches: 0.78

This season + last 2 years:
Couture: 0.76
Patches: 0.81

This season + last 3 years:
Couture: 0.78
Patches: 0.81

This season + last 4 years (4th year being the partial lockout):
Couture: 0.77
Patches: 0.82

I'm not trying to undercut your argument (I get it and partially agree), but using career stats is a little silly. The stats above are much more relevant than Couture having a better start to his career.

Personally, I think Patches has a slight edge offensively, as well as defensively on an individual basis. I think Couture plays the more important position and makes his linemates better as a whole. In terms of value, C > W si I'm inclined to say Couture is more valuable (contracts aside), but an argument could be made that Patches is the better player. They are very comparable in terms of wingers vs centers.

Using a year where Couture broke his leg in every one of those averages is also a little silly.