Prospect Info: Vitali Kravtsov: Part VIII

[Amazing Kreiderman]

No traktor doesn’t own his rights anymore than the Rangers. That’s not accurate. The Rangers own his rights and are loaning him to Traktor. His contract with NYR supersedes anything else and they have final say.

NHL rights do not affect contracts in the KHL though. Rangers giving Kravtsov permission to sign a KHL deal is one thing, but the deal between player and club in the KHL is not something that is affected by NHL rights, although it can be part of negotiations for the loan. Clauses need to be added to such a contract.

It would help if Traktor or the KHL would clarify this. Until then, we simply do not know

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I gotta be honest I don't see why fans are getting so worked up over this

He's going to be playing hockey in the second best league in the world, it's not like he's sitting around doing nothing. And we all know with Quinn, he wasn't going to make the team outta camp sooooo yeah

 

[Kovalev27]

NHL rights do not affect contracts in the KHL though. Rangers giving Kravtsov permission to sign a KHL deal is one thing, but the deal between player and club in the KHL is not something that is affected by NHL rights, although it can be part of negotiations for the loan. Clauses need to be added to such a contract.

It would help if Traktor or the KHL would clarify this. Until then, we simply do not know

this has already been agreed to by both organizations. There is no transfer agreement so to speak but there is an agreement on honoring existing contracts. Otherwise the nhl could poach whoever they want whenever they want and vice versa. So to say traktors contract has same weight value as his nhl contract is just not accurate. He’s on loan to traktor. And has to sign a KHl contract to play. But he is on loan. So that makes it very clear who owns his actual contractual rights.

 

[barriers]

you are dead wrong my friend sorry. The original Guaranteed contract Takes precedent. It is not a simple employment contract it’s a guaranteed pro contract. The secondary Contract is only allowed to be signed due to the loan agreement and only because the original team That owns that First contract allowed it to do so. That’s just basic. To say they both have same value and weight is flat out wrong information.

They're both guaranteed pro contracts. His NHL contract is just paper in the eyes of Russian law and his KHL contract means nothing in America. That’s just basic.

They both have the same value and weight.

 

[nyr2k2]

First, it is not a business contract. It is an employment contract.

Yes, both teams agreed on certain terms. So, a loan for the entire season.

Both contracts, NHL & KHL, have the same value/weight.

The KHL contract has the "same value" insofar that the NHL and loan agreement allows it to. His original contract is with the NHL and that will take precedent, up to the point that whatever loan agreement affords Traktor rights to him.

The terms under which the KHL team has any say over his status at all would be dictated by the loan. I don't know why there are such conflicting reports as to what that loan agreement allows for, but if the Rangers are of the belief that they can recall their player from a loan, I am inclined to believe that.

I guess we'll see.

 

[Kovalev27]

They're both guaranteed pro contracts. His NHL contract is just paper in the eyes of Russian law and his KHL contract means nothing in America. That’s just basic.

They both have the same value and weight.

sorry but that’s not accurate don’t know what else to tell you. If it were then no loan agreement would even be necessary. They could just sign him without NYR permission. That’s not the case.

both leagues have an agreement to honor each other’s contracts. Been that way for years. That’s different from a transfer agreement. So that’s just flat out not accurate.

 

[barriers]

sorry but that’s not accurate don’t know what else to tell you. If it were then no loan agreement would even be necessary. They could just sign him without NYR permission. That’s not the case.

both leagues have an agreement to honor each other’s contracts. Been that way for years. That’s different from a transfer agreement. So that’s just flat out not accurate.

That's exactly what the case is. The only thing stopping each league from poaching talent from one another is a goodwill agreement. Any KHL team could sign any NHL player (and vice-versa) regardless of contract status legally. There is only a handshake agreement to not do so.

 

[nyr2k2]

That's exactly what the case is. The only thing stopping each league from poaching talent from one another is a goodwill agreement. Any KHL team could sign any NHL player (and vice-versa) regardless of contract status legally. There is only a handshake agreement to not do so.

So is your suggestion that the KHL has or will obliterate their handshake agreement to accommodate Traktor or Kravtsov? I seriously doubt that the KHL has any intention of doing so. Which, would render this discussion of "everything is equal" to be largely moot.

 

[Kovalev27]

This is so silly. Make it sound like they shook hands over a beer

both leagues has SIGNED agreements that have been extended periodically over the past 10 years to honor each other’s contracts and both leagues take it very seriously.

Kravtsov is ON LOAN because the Rangers have decided to loan him to Traktor. Now that he signed his Traktor contract it does not mean Traktor has the equal right to do what they want with him. It’s absurd to think that.

for the record Vince has confirmed with the Team and Kravtsov’s agent. Not sure why anyone would think Traktor is now in charge of this kids future thats not how loan agreements work. If the Rangers want him back he will come back that’s all there is to it or they can decide he can’t play at all. Up to them.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

This is so silly. Make it sound like they shook hands over a beer

both leagues has SIGNED agreements that have been extended periodically over the past 10 years to honor each other’s contracts and both leagues take it very seriously.

Kravtsov is ON LOAN because the Rangers have decided to loan him to Traktor. Now that he signed his Traktor contract it does not mean Traktor has the equal right to do what they want with him. It’s absurd to think that.

for the record Vince has confirmed with the Team and Kravtsov’s agent. Not sure why anyone would think Traktor is now in charge of this kids future thats not how loan agreements work. If the Rangers want him back he will come back that’s all there is to it or they can decide he can’t play at all. Up to them.

Because Traktor, the KHL and another reliable source (Gillian Kemmerer, who covers the KHL) are saying the loan is for the whole season. It's not that I don't trust Vince. I'm just stuck between 2 different sources who claim the exact opposite. I rather wait for this to be cleared up than to "choose sides".

If these were claims by some Russian fan, I wouldn't care but actual reliable sources are saying this. Time will tell.

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Because Traktor, the KHL and another reliable source (Gillian Kemmerer, who covers the KHL) are saying the loan is for the whole season. It's not that I don't trust Vince. I'm just stuck between 2 different sources who claim the exact opposite. I rather wait for this to be cleared up than to "choose sides".

If these were claims by some Russian fan, I wouldn't care but actual reliable sources are saying this. Time will tell.

If his agent wasn't agreeing with the, I guess, NA side of this, I'd be right there with you, but he'd be the guy between the two sides and he's taken one, so that's good enough for me

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

If his agent wasn't agreeing with the, I guess, NA side of this, I'd be right there with you, but he'd be the guy between the two sides and he's taken one, so that's good enough for me

Where did his agent say this?

 

[GoAwayGiannone]

Where's Rangerboy when you need him?

 

[Kovalev27]

My guess is Rangers did agree to allow him to stay thru the end of the regular season. Considering the nhl may not even start till January.

But contractually they have the right to recall him as they and the player see fit Again as is their right. Doesn’t mean they will but they can and that’s all this is about.

And I’m sure the agent And the NYR confirmed that. And considering Vince talked to the NYR (who do have final say period) I’ll take it from him over the Russian reporter who did not.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

My guess is Rangers did agree to allow him to stay thru the end of the regular season. Considering the nhl may not even start till January.

But contractually they have the right to recall him as they and the player see fit Again as is their right. Doesn’t mean they will but they can and that’s all this is about.

And I’m sure the agent And the NYR confirmed that. And considering Vince talked to the NYR (who do have final say period) I’ll take it from him over the Russian reporter who did not.

The problem here is that both teams are telling a different story. And I don't really consider one side more reliable than the other. To me, they're equal.

Maybe we can get confirmation in the next few days. Traktor's first game is on Thursday

 

[Kovalev27]

The problem here is that both teams are telling a different story. And I don't really consider one side more reliable than the other. To me, they're equal.

Maybe we can get confirmation in the next few days. Traktor's first game is on Thursday

I mean I don’t know how you can say that but to each their own. I’d trust the New York Rangers when it comes to what they confirm about their own players to the media.

 

[nyr2k2]

The problem here is that both teams are telling a different story. And I don't really consider one side more reliable than the other. To me, they're equal.

Maybe we can get confirmation in the next few days. Traktor's first game is on Thursday

I don't know that "he will play here all season" and "we can recall him" necessarily conflict. The Rangers could have reserved the right to recall him but also told Traktor that they would allow him to play there for the full KHL season.

 

[cwede]

He's there.
Maybe at some point he's not. We'll find out when something changes.

 

[kovazub94]

My guess is Rangers did agree to allow him to stay thru the end of the regular season. Considering the nhl may not even start till January.

But contractually they have the right to recall him as they and the player see fit Again as is their right. Doesn’t mean they will but they can and that’s all this is about.

And I’m sure the agent And the NYR confirmed that. And considering Vince talked to the NYR (who do have final say period) I’ll take it from him over the Russian reporter who did not.

This is semantics then. Sounds like the ability (or rights, whatever) to keep Kravtsov for the full season was the sticking point for Traktor. However it’s formally documented Kravtsov will stay there full season and de facto the only way the Rangers will have him returning to NA is if Traktor agrees to let him go. Otherwise there will be issues at the NHL / KHL level and neither leagues nor clubs would allow the situation to escalate to that level. Everything else is just a formality.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I mean I don’t know how you can say that but to each their own. I’d trust the New York Rangers when it comes to what they confirm about their own players to the media.

We have no official statement from the NY Rangers, only from a beat writer (who isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer). I take official statements from the KHL & Traktor more seriously than hearsay from a beat writer (who is often wrong), until NYR refute it I am leaning toward what the KHL & Traktor claim.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

Just because Kravstov is loaned for the entire season doesn’t mean the Rangers can’t recall him if requested.

Why would the Rangers agree to terms that prevent them from having complete control? They wouldn’t. It doesn’t make sense for them to handcuff themselves.

 

[Tawnos]

I don't know that "he will play here all season" and "we can recall him" necessarily conflict. The Rangers could have reserved the right to recall him but also told Traktor that they would allow him to play there for the full KHL season.

Yeah, this is my feeling. If circumstances change, he can be recalled. In fact, they’d be stupid to agree to anything else. What if there’s a massive Covid outbreak in Russia and they could get him out of there. Are people really saying they couldn’t do it because of the terms of this loan agreement? That’s an extreme example, yes, but it illustrates the point. Kravtsov’s contract with the Rangers supersedes everything else.

And no, we don’t need to hear from Traktor or the KHL on this. We need to hear from JG or JD.

 

[kovazub94]

Just because Kravstov is loaned for the entire season doesn’t mean the Rangers can’t recall him if requested.

Why would the Rangers agree to terms that prevent them from having complete control? They wouldn’t. It doesn’t make sense for them to handcuff themselves.

What incentive would there be for Traktor to accommodate the Rangers and in the process potentially exposing themselves to losing an important player in the middle of a playoff race?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

The problem here is that both teams are telling a different story. And I don't really consider one side more reliable than the other. To me, they're equal.

Maybe we can get confirmation in the next few days. Traktor's first game is on Thursday

If the Rangers believe that they can recall him and Traktor tries to disagree, I can tell you right now that would create a major issue and teams would stop loaning players to the KHL.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

What incentive would there be for Traktor to accommodate the Rangers and in the process potentially exposing themselves to losing an important player in the middle of a playoff race?

Have fun ever having a player loaned again, then.