Prospect Info: Vitali Kravtsov: Part VIII

[Oscar Lindberg]

Let him play the entire season with Traktor

Don’t do this thing where you drag him over to North American half way through the season like they did with Lias

The NHL isn’t starting in December anyways so by the time Traktor is done he can come. I doubt he’d make the big squad out of training camp anyways

 

[Leetch3]

whether or not he can be recalled is kind of a non-issue for me...the nhl season might not start to Jan. the khl season ends in like march. so the odds were very small to begin with that he would be called before the end of the khl season anyway

 

[kovazub94]

If Traktor ends up being as bad as they have been the last few seasons, him staying the full season isn't really going to be that beneficial.

Yes, he does get to play sooner than if he just waited for whenever NA hockey starts up, but that doesn't matter if it's just spending time playing for a crap team.

I don't think they will be bad, but it is a legitimate hesitancy.

Last season was severely undermined by an extremely bad head coaching hire. Previous GM was almost openly in cahoots with a powerful players agent. Shouldn’t be the case this season. New GM. Returned HC under whom they had the most recent success (Conference Finals). They also made IMO very good roster moves. Traktor could be a dark horse out of the gate in the Eastern Conference.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Who knows but this is what I think at this point

 

[Irishguy42]

Last season was severely undermined by an extremely bad head coaching hire. Previous GM was almost openly in cahoots with a powerful players agent. Shouldn’t be the case this season. New GM. Returned HC under whom they had the most recent success (Conference Finals). They also made IMO very good roster moves. Traktor could be a dark horse out of the gate in the Eastern Conference.

Oh I know that and I do expect it to go well.

It's still a hesitancy, but between now and whenever NA hockey starts back up is going to be a lonnnnnnnnng time, so plenty of time to evaluate how well things will go.

 

[EdJovanovski]

This guy is wrong half the time lol I wouldn’t put much stock in this

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

This guy is wrong half the time lol I wouldn’t put much stock in this

 

[LiveLongandProspal]

So.....yeah

 

[EdJovanovski]

He’s probably misinterpreting what they said, I think they can recall him once Traktor’s season ends

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

The Rangers and Traktor probably have a handshake agreement not to recall him until their season is over, unless something comes up where they absolutely need him

So technically the Rangers could recall him anytime they want, but won’t. Which also makes sense if it’s true he wants to stay in the KHL the entire season

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

He’s probably misinterpreting what they said, I think they can recall him once Traktor’s season ends

They can recall him whenever they want because he’s under contract with the Rangers, any sort of agreement with Traktor is essentially a handshake deal.

Now, does that mean that they’ll pull him from Traktor for training camp? Not necessarily

 

[NYSPORTS]

Let him play the entire season with Traktor

are they playing in front of fans?

 

[barriers]

The Rangers own his rights as much as Traktor does and now he's under contract with both. The agreement between the NHL and the KHL to respect each other's contracts is a handshake agreement and not a legal one and the Rangers won't be able to force their will with anyone. If NYR tries to recall him against Traktor's wishes it's just going to cause problems neither league likely wants to deal with.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The problem is that Larry Brooks, Vince Mercogliano and others are all getting their info from someone in the Rangers organization.

Meanwhile reliable sources in the KHL are saying the opposite. I am not going jump to any conclusions. I trust sources on both sides of this argument. And Vince repeating his statement isn't going to change the fact that there are conflicting reports.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

If NYR tries to recall him against Traktor's wishes it's just going to cause problems neither league likely wants to deal with.

Pretty much how I read it. Rangers aren't going to want to kick the hornets nest on this. Add in Kravstov wanting to stay in Russia the entire season, no reason for NY to force the issue

are they playing in front of fans?

No idea

 

[barriers]

The problem is that Larry Brooks, Vince Mercogliano and others are all getting their info from someone in the Rangers organization.

Meanwhile reliable sources in the KHL are saying the opposite. I am not going jump to any conclusions. I trust sources on both sides of this argument. And Vince repeating his statement
isn't going to change the fact that there are conflicting reports.

Vince Mercogliano's statement and argument should hold even less weight since it's exceptionally dumb. His stance is that NYR can recall Kravtsov anytime because he is under contract with them and they hold his rights. Meanwhile, he is going to play for Traktor, who he is under contract with and they hold his rights.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Pretty much how I read it. Rangers aren't going to want to kick the hornets nest on this. Add in Kravstov wanting to stay in Russia the entire season, no reason for NY to force the issue

As far as I know, based on the fact that there's no transfer agreement and a mutual understanding that the NHL and KHL respect each other's contracts, players in the KHL or NHL can't switch unless there's a mutual agreement to either a loan or termination of the existing contract.

Rangers and Kravtsov agreeing to a loan made it possible for him to sign a KHL contract. Now, that contract could be mutually terminated, but unless that happens, Kravtsov is bound to that KHL contract which expires on April 30th.

And again, nothing against Vince, because he's a solid source, and I know he talks to the Rangers organization about this, but it would be foolish to completely disregard the stories coming out of Russia that the loan is for the full season. Gillian Kemmerer, a journalist who works in Russia, the Traktor organization and the KHL have said the loan is for a full season.

Vince Mercogliano's statement and argument should hold even less weight since it's exceptionally dumb. His stance is that NYR can recall Kravtsov anytime because he is under contract with them and they hold his rights. Meanwhile, he is going to play for Traktor, who he is under contract with and they hold his rights.

Yes, and to the IIHF, KHL rights are just as important as NHL rights. There's a memorandum of understanding between the NHL and KHL that they respect each others contracts. That's all I can find regarding official wording.

 

[vorky]

He’s probably misinterpreting what they said, I think they can recall him once Traktor’s season ends

It is not correct to call it a recall if speaking about the KHL.

What is a recall? When a player under NHL contract is playing in the AHL but his NHL team wants him back in a certain time. I am sure there are rules between both leagues regulating this. So, the AHL club has no right to say "no, the player is not going anywhere, he is staying with us." Because there are rules regulating this kind of moves.

But it is no like that with the KHL because the NHL clubs honour the players´ contracts with the KHL clubs. There are no rules between both leagues regulating the recall situation. It is all about agreement between two clubs.

Moreover, the KHL contracts do not include an out-clause even though North American journalists and agents say so. The out-clause means that a player can sign in another league without consent from his previous club. It has been happening all days between the NHL and Swedish, Finnish etc clubs due to the NHL Transfer Agreement. But it is not a case for the KHL.

Earlier I said about the agreement between two clubs. In Kravtsov case, it is as follows. NYR, Traktor & Kravtsov agreed that he will spend all season in the KHL. If NYR wanted him back, so NYR/Traktor/Kravtsov would need to agree again about his earlier comeback. And that is not a recall as we can see in the AHL or Swedish, Finnish clubs.

Traktor has said many times - our crucial condition is to have Kravtsov for the entire season. Otherwise, we do not need him at all. And all parties agreed on this.

His KHL expires on April 30. Kravtsov/Traktor may agree to terminate his contract earlier, for example when Traktor is eliminated from the Gagarin Cup. But again, it is not a recall, it is the agreement between Kravtsov and Traktor, even NYR has nothing to do with this. Because NYR agreed with Traktor to loan him to the KHL for the entire season. It is very similar to soccer where players are loaned for half of season (July-December) or all season (July-June). You can not demand the player´s comeback after a few weeks or a month (if the original agreement defined half-season or all-season loan).

Because the KHL also honours the NHL contracts, the KHL by-laws claimed during last NHL lock-out that a player with valid NHL contract may sign in the KHL for a period of the NHL lockout but these KHL contracts are voided per se at the moment of resuming the NHL season. But it is NOT a case for this season and all those loans.

And North American journalists can say whatever they want. They have no clue about the rules. Or they are saying what their audience wants to hear.

 

[vorky]

The Rags own his rights as much as Traktor does and now he's under contract with both. The agreement between the NHL and the KHL to respect each other's contracts is a handshake agreement and not a legal one and the Rangers won't be able to force their will with anyone. If NYR tries to recall him against Traktor's wishes it's just going to cause problems neither league likely wants to deal with.

Exactly

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

The problem is that Larry Brooks, Vince Mercogliano and others are all getting their info from someone in the Rangers organization.

Meanwhile reliable sources in the KHL are saying the opposite. I am not going jump to any conclusions. I trust sources on both sides of this argument. And Vince repeating his statement isn't going to change the fact that there are conflicting reports.

Didn’t kravtsov’s agent confirm the Rangers could recall him?

I personally don’t think they will barring some sort of extreme injury situation or something and have probably promised Traktor as much

 

[vorky]

As far as I know, based on the fact that there's no transfer agreement and a mutual understanding that the NHL and KHL respect each other's contracts, players in the KHL or NHL can't switch unless there's a mutual agreement to either a loan or termination of the existing contract.

Rangers and Kravtsov agreeing to a loan made it possible for him to sign a KHL contract. Now, that contract could be mutually terminated, but unless that happens, Kravtsov is bound to that KHL contract which expires on April 30th.

And again, nothing against Vince, because he's a solid source, and I know he talks to the Rangers organization about this, but it would be foolish to completely disregard the stories coming out of Russia that the loan is for the full season. Gillian Kemmerer, a journalist who works in Russia, the Traktor organization and the KHL have said the loan is for a full season.

Exactly.

Yes, and to the IIHF, KHL rights are just as important as NHL rights. There's a memorandum of understanding between the NHL and KHL that they respect each others contracts. That's all I can find regarding official wording.

Here I would add. The holding NHL rights to a player means exactly nothing outside the NHL. It is a system within the NHL. As well as holding the KHL rights to a player means the same, so nothing, outside the KHL.

Only what is important is a valid contract with a club. And Kravtsov has a valid contract with both, the NHL & the KHL club.

 

[Kovalev27]

No traktor doesn’t own his rights anymore than the Rangers. That’s not accurate. The Rangers own his rights and are loaning him to Traktor. His contract with NYR supersedes anything else and they have final say.

 

[Kovalev27]

Exactly.


Here I would add. The holding NHL rights to a player means exactly nothing outside the NHL. It is a system within the NHL. As well as holding the KHL rights to a player means the same, so nothing, outside the KHL.

Only what is important is a valid contract with a club. And Kravtsov has a valid contract with both, the NHL & the KHL club.

except that you’re wrong and the original nhl contract is a business contract. He is only even allowed to sign that Traktor loan contract because the NHL team allowed him to do so under certain terms. He didn’t just sign a second contract that has the same weight as the first that’s not how contracts work.

 

[vorky]

except that you’re wrong and the original nhl contract is a business contract. He is only even allowed to sign that Traktor loan contract because the NHL team allowed him to do so under certain terms. He didn’t just sign a second contract that has the same weight as the first that’s not how contracts work.

First, it is not a business contract. It is an employment contract.

Yes, both teams agreed on certain terms. So, a loan for the entire season.

Both contracts, NHL & KHL, have the same value/weight.

 

[Kovalev27]

First, it is not a business contract. It is an employment contract.

Yes, both teams agreed on certain terms. So, a loan for the entire season.

Both contracts, NHL & KHL, have the same value/weight.

you are dead wrong my friend sorry. The original Guaranteed contract Takes precedent. It is not a simple employment contract it’s a guaranteed pro contract. The secondary Contract is only allowed to be signed due to the loan agreement and only because the original team That owns that First contract allowed it to do so. That’s just basic. To say they both have same value and weight is flat out wrong information.