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Confirmed Trade: [VGK/CGY/PHI] Noah Hanifin (75% retained), Mikhail Vorobyov to VGK; 2026 1st , 2025 cond. 3rd, Daniil Miromanov to CGY; 2024 5th to PHI

Three On Zero said:
Your “cap hit” is accrued through the season, once your salary is paid your cap hit is 0. How do you think teams accrue cap space at the TDL for expensive players at cheaper hits?

A player entering the post season has a cap hit of 0 because they are not being paid to play hockey anymore.

You can’t predict injuries, so yes every team has LTIR available to them.
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That is true. I don't know if there's an easy fix on that side of things because of how cap hits work on a day to day basis which complicates things.

Regardless, the system needs some sort of revamp. Its way too easy to exploit the return time from injury to gain this advantage and not all teams get the same opportunity to benefit from it.
Ted Hoffman said:
That's the player's choice. It's not the team's choice forced on the player.


Going backwards, but in order for this to be explained:

Teams in the regular season are restricted to no more than 23 players on the Active Roster. To add a player to the 23, someone has to come off via trade, assignment to outside the NHL, release of the player [only allowed in very select situations], or assigning someone to Injured Reserve.

LTIR is a subset of Injured Reserve that can only be utilized when (1) a player is going to miss at least 10 games and 24 days, and (2) the team is sufficiently close to the cap that it can't recall a player without going over the cap.

In the playoffs, there is no limit on the Active Roster; thus, there's no need for IR - and if IR doesn't exist, LTIR doesn't exist either. It could theoretically exist, but it would be pointless: it doesn't impact adding players to the Active Roster, and currently the cap does not exist in the playoffs [there is no daily accrual, because team's aren't in the playoffs the same amount of time].


I have no clue; I'm not Mark Stone, nor am I an NHL player. Ask him or an NHL player.


I'm sure sports ethics literature is littered with riveting stories about this. What this has to do with reality and the "knowledge" that teams are making up injuries and faking their severity and duration to game the cap, examples of which are still to this day nonexistent, I don't know.


Again, because players decide this. Not teams. This is like saying "I can't believe people sign themselves out of hospitals AMA" [which happens] and then arguing "doctors should be able to force people to get treatment for [whatever] even if the person doesn't want it," which no one in their right mind would think is OK.


You're ... so ... close to getting it.

Are we testing him daily for that? Are we doing that for every player who has an injury that might get healed around the playoffs? Should we have shot x-rays on Patrick Kane's collarbone in 2015 to find the exact day it was healed, then stamped "No Longer Broken" on a piece of paper and handed it to him and had him escorted to the dressing room for the next game and put under guard to make sure he dressed and played?

I'm trying to understand how far we're taking this "need" to "make sure" players are really healed and not faking injuries vs. their rights as a medical patient and the potential long-term health hazards of subjecting them to repeated tests and procedures, so that we make sure guys are playing when they're supposed to and not a moment later.


So, we'll either test the shit out of him because it's easy to determine when he's good to go, or it will be like art: we'll know if he's healthy when we feel it in our spirit, or something.
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You're kind of just outlining the problems with LTIR altogether. Maybe LTIR just shouldn't exist and we shouldn't allow teams to have cap relief when a player gets injured. Too bad. There's not much more to debate on the majority of your post. I think you realize how easy it is to exploit a return to play date due to the complexities of what goes into a player returning to play. It just makes LTIR altogether a complete joke.

They're going to be testing him regardless to make sure his spleen is healed to offer their medical opinion on whether he's safe to return or not. I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter if fans think its unfair that the salary cap is not some "even playing field" that it was sold as back in 05-06 because the league clearly doesn't care. It won't be until owners, GMs or players start speaking out about it that anything actually changes. We'll see how much truth there is into the report by Friedman that several NHL GMs might be asking questions to the league and asking them to investigate if Stone returns for playoffs.

For the record, I had no issue with Vegas last season because the lineup they actually iced was cap compliant. This season would be another story if Stone is back for playoffs.
 
bringbacktheskate604 said:
For the record I'm ok with what Vegas is doing but this post is completely irrelevant. Vancouver is in LTIR but we cant add anyone because our guy is back before the playoffs. People are pissed if Stone and now possibly Alex both come back for the playoffs while getting tu use their 12 million to add Mantha Hanifin etc and then get them back for the playoffs.

A simple fix is players not playing game 82 cant return for the playoffs if LTIR was used with their cap that's a fair way to do it.
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This does seem like the correct fix, but the league isn’t interested in fixing this.

Leafs should load manage Tavares for the rest of the season and spend that money improving the team for the rest of the year and slot Tavares back in for the playoffs.

They could get a decent RD and a second line center for $11m, maybe a goalie if the can get retention on those players.
 
McFlyingV said:
That is true. I don't know if there's an easy fix on that side of things because of how cap hits work on a day to day basis which complicates things.

Regardless, the system needs some sort of revamp. Its way too easy to exploit the return time from injury to gain this advantage and not all teams get the same opportunity to benefit from it.

You're kind of just outlining the problems with LTIR altogether. Maybe LTIR just shouldn't exist and we shouldn't allow teams to have cap relief when a player gets injured. Too bad. There's not much more to debate on the majority of your post. I think you realize how easy it is to exploit a return to play date due to the complexities of what goes into a player returning to play. It just makes LTIR altogether a complete joke.

They're going to be testing him regardless to make sure his spleen is healed to offer their medical opinion on whether he's safe to return or not. I guess at the end of the day it doesn't matter if fans think its unfair that the salary cap is not some "even playing field" that it was sold as back in 05-06 because the league clearly doesn't care. It won't be until owners, GMs or players start speaking out about it that anything actually changes. We'll see how much truth there is into the report by Friedman that several NHL GMs might be asking questions to the league and asking them to investigate if Stone returns for playoffs.

For the record, I had no issue with Vegas last season because the lineup they actually iced was cap compliant. This season would be another story if Stone is back for playoffs.
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You’ll never get a resolution that the fans will be happy with. This is something engrained into the CBA. The players will likely not want to change it, you’re better off embracing the fact that maybe you’re team will be in a position to utilize it at some point
 
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Three On Zero said:
You’ll never get a resolution that the fans will be happy with. This is something engrained into the CBA. The players will likely not want to change it, you’re better off embracing the fact that maybe you’re team will be in a position to utilize it at some point
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Just get rid of the cap, it’s a joke
 
McFlyingV said:
That would be my solution honestly.


Partially, but it would also reward good drafting and asset management.
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Until top draft picks start refusing to sign because they don’t want to be on teams that aren’t competitive
 
Strangle said:
So what? You either let everyone take steroids or you let no one take steroids. You can’t just let some people take steroids and pretend like it’s against the rules
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But in this specific scenario everyone can take steroids. Just some use more than others
 
IceNeophyte said:
Hanifin is a UFA and refused to sign. Flames aren't going to the playoffs. What's your solution?
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So the TOP Defenseman on the trading deadline block gets a bottom 5 1st round pick and a 26 yr old Defensive who can't get a spot on the roster and has played a total of 29 games in 3 seasons is the best you can get?

Calgary overplayed their hand and they got screwed. Hence why I say they are clueless in what they are doing.

To me, Calgary got a better deal from Dallas for a 34 yr old Tanev. While they didn't get a 1st (which no team was going to), they got a 2nd and 3rd and a better younger Defensive prospect.
 
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IceNeophyte said:
Sounds like you have knowledge his physicians and team leaders don't
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Technically you are correct and we don't actually know that Stone will play in the playoffs.


The problem isn't whether or not Stone is actually injured. He is.

The problem isn't that Vegas can use LTIR space to replace him. They can. That's the whole point of LTIR. It exists for a reason.


The problem is that the possibility of Vegas using Stone AND his replacement simultaneously in the playoffs exists. That's the problem.





Anyway, good trade for Vegas pretty much regardless of what they actually gave up. I like the team and they look a lot scarier right now then they did not too long ago.
 
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Glorydays22 said:
So the TOP Defenseman on the trading deadline block gets a bottom 5 1st round pick and a 26 yr old Defensive who can't get a spot on the roster and has played a total of 29 games in 3 seasons is the best you can get?

Calgary overplayed their hand and they got screwed. Hence why I say they are clueless in what they are doing.

To me, Calgary got a better deal from Dallas for a 34 yr old Tanev. While they didn't get a 1st (which no team was going to), they got a 2nd and 3rd and a better younger Defensive prospect.
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We don’t even know what the whole deal is yet.
 
Glorydays22 said:
So the TOP Defenseman on the trading deadline block gets a bottom 5 1st round pick and a 26 yr old Defensive who can't get a spot on the roster and has played a total of 29 games in 3 seasons is the best you can get?

Calgary overplayed their hand and they got screwed. Hence why I say they are clueless in what they are doing.

To me, Calgary got a better deal from Dallas for a 34 yr old Tanev. While they didn't get a 1st (which no team was going to), they got a 2nd and 3rd and a better younger Defensive prospect.
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Hanifin also somewhat controls where he gets traded to and can hold an extension as bait for others to not sign him. He kind of has Conroy over a barrel
 
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