Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[TheBeard]

He missed all of them in 2022.

Not sure why it’s so hard to understand that guys will play with injuries in the playoffs. His previous coach mentioned that Stone hurt his back against Montreal in the conference finals. He had a horrible series and still played. But according to some people if you play it means you are 100%.

He didn’t miss any in 2022.

Also, if you’re acknowledging he’s not playing when he’s healthy, just when he thinks he can go then it’s fairly clear he’s purposely waiting until his return isn’t a cap inconvenience. The choice isn’t any doctor’s but his.

 

[Vegas07]

He didn’t miss any in 2022.

Also, if you’re acknowledging he’s not playing when he’s healthy, just when he thinks he can go then it’s fairly clear he’s purposely waiting until his return isn’t a cap inconvenience. The choice isn’t any doctor’s but his.

How many playoff games did he play in 2022? There you go. He never returned for game 1 or game 2 or game anything. He didn’t play again until several months AFTER the playoffs. And he missed around half the season. Where is the advantage there?

I’m acknowledging that he has played when he was hurt.

 

[TheBeard]

How many playoff games did he play in 2022? There you go. He never returned for game 1 or game 2 or game anything. He didn’t play again until several months AFTER the playoffs. And he missed around half the season. Where is the advantage there?

I’m acknowledging that he has played when he was hurt.

So he’s not playing then on the advice of doctors, he’s playing when he ultimately decides he wants to play.

 

[Vegas07]

So he’s not playing then on the advice of doctors, he’s playing when he ultimately decides he wants to play.

No that doesn’t follow. You can do both-listen to doctors and make a decision about playing. And when the games are more important, players are more likely to play thru pain.

Not the same as faking injuries when you are 100% because it’s convenient, which is what many of the replies are saying here.

Also, the possibility remains that he could miss every playoff game again, for the second time in three years. How convenient.

 

[LTIR]

He missed all of them in 2022.

Not sure why it’s so hard to understand that guys will play with injuries in the playoffs. His previous coach mentioned that Stone hurt his back against Montreal in the conference finals. He had a horrible series and still played. But according to some people if you play it means you are 100%.

We will just see game 1 of playoffs if Stone is miraculously ready.
I would rather find out he is damaged for good or retired than see him play game 1.

Fixed to avoid ban

 

[Chips]

Front-loading the Kovalchuk contract was great team managment. New Jersey found a loop hole and created more oppurtunity for themselves. Every team could have done the same thing.

But, the NHL voided the contract and made rule changes. How is this any different?

Because it’s a different concept, a different issue. The owners had a problem with that. They looked at LTIR after both the Blackhawks and Bolts and ultimately didn’t care



The Kovalchuk thing was wayyyy different, signing a massive contract nobody expected him to play out anywhere near the end that would jump from 11 mil per year to league minimum for several years.

 

[LTIR]

You guys really think doctors will declare Stone healthy 2 weeks before the playoffs

 

[Vegas07]

We will just see game 1 of playoffs if Stone is miraculously ready.
I would rather find out he is damaged for good or retired than see him play game 1.

Fixed to avoid ban

Is it miraculous if he is still hurt? Obviously it’s far more surprising if he is 100%.

Of course every critic here knows that he will return for game 1 and many say he will be 100%. I haven’t read a single comment here saying he will return at 50% or 75% or even 90%.

 

[Vegas07]

I wonder what the gm would think of fans comments lol.

“I don’t know how much more time that he’ll miss beyond that,” McCrimmon said. “It's really an unknown for us. These are different type of injuries than what hockey players normally sustain. It's impossible to know what the timeline is.”

“It's a little bit of a tough one to pinpoint in terms of circling the date on the calendar,” McCrimmon said. "I don't think this puts him in that risk in any way longer term, but it is going to take the time that it is going to take."

Stone out rest of regular season for Golden Knights with lacerated spleen | NHL.com

Timeline unclear for return of forward, who missed final 39 games last season before Cup run

www.nhl.com

 

[LTIR]

Is it miraculous if he is still hurt? Obviously it’s far more surprising if he is 100%.

Of course every critic here knows that he will return for game 1 and many say he will be 100%. I haven’t read a single comment here saying he will return at 50% or 75% or even 90%.

As long as he isn't practicing with the team at full speed without a no contact jersey for a couple weeks before the playoffs, ppl may buy it.

If he is good enough to return at 75 then he should be playing regular games at 75.

 

[Sysreq]

You guys really think doctors will declare Stone healthy 2 weeks before the playoffs

Per: Return to Play After Liver and Spleen Trauma

Two professional hockey players with grade III spleen injury were managed conservatively with serial CTs until radiographic and clinical findings suggested complete healing. They returned to full-contact hockey within 2 months without any complications. Athletes who choose splenectomy often return to activity much sooner. Athletes with splenic injury have returned to unrestricted activity 3 weeks after splenectomy.

So yeah, definitely reasonable he'll be back by the start of the play-offs. April 22 will be almost exactly 60 days since he was injured. Exactly what the paper describes.

 

[a mangy Meowth]

You can say what you want about the legitimacy of Stone's untimely injury history and sudden reappearance for the first meaningful games, but I think the general public has made clear that, regardless of whether it's actually against the rules, it's certainly at least against the spirit of competition in the eyes of many. Nobody in the Vegas fanbase is going to convince people otherwise, regardless of how in depth you go into the medical details. The optics are just that bad.

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Hilarious that there are people who actually think Stone's injuries are legitimate and that he isn't exaggerating the severity to circumvent cap. He's literally done this for 3 years in a row.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Hilarious that there are people who actually think Stone's injuries are legitimate and that he isn't exaggerating the severity to circumvent cap. He's literally done this for 3 years in a row.

Yup. It makes sense that Vegas fans are defensive about it. It's a new franchise, it's a greasy way to win -- but it's within the rules (if you accept that a miraculous recovery to full health is consistent with "bona fide" injury).

Plus, it's not like Dallas's Cup which was only won by ignoring an actual rule (toe in the crease). They gamed the rule and won. Full credit for that.

The other group defending it is the kind of guy who reps Vegas because he thinks it's what "tough guys" do -- like getting a skull tattoo, buying a big truck and never using the back half of it for anything, or having poker, strip clubs and cigars play a big role in your personality.

 

[TheBeard]

No that doesn’t follow. You can do both-listen to doctors and make a decision about playing. And when the games are more important, players are more likely to play thru pain.

Not the same as faking injuries when you are 100% because it’s convenient, which is what many of the replies are saying here.

Also, the possibility remains that he could miss every playoff game again, for the second time in three years. How convenient.

So hypothetically then, if it was game 82 last year and Vegas needed to win it to get in, would Stone have played in that game?

 

[Wallet Inspector]

I kinda hate that Vegas' justification for Ottawa to be punished over Dadonov's NTC was because they couldn't activate Stone off of LTIR, and now there's a chance that he is deliberately being left on it this year until the playoffs.

 

[joepeps]

Tampa and the Leafs are spending more than Vegas but don't look that deep

what are you talking about... Toronto isn't pretending to have injuries to bring them back in the playoffs.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Would making teams actually disclose injuries mitigate some of the suspicion?

 

[Elvs]

Because it’s a different concept, a different issue. The owners had a problem with that. They looked at LTIR after both the Blackhawks and Bolts and ultimately didn’t care

The Kovalchuk thing was wayyyy different, signing a massive contract nobody expected him to play out anywhere near the end that would jump from 11 mil per year to league minimum for several years.

I get what you are saying and I understand that pretty much the only thing the owners care about is money, and not so much of the integrity of the game. But just because the owners doesn't have an issue with something, doesn't mean fans can't have.

By accepting what Vegas are doing, the league is paving the way for teams to fake injuries or at the very least prolong them. In my humble opinion, when players are being payed millions of dollars to play hockey, they better ****ing suit up if they are healthy. But maybe that's just me.

 

[Spawn]

How many playoff games did he play in 2022? There you go. He never returned for game 1 or game 2 or game anything. He didn’t play again until several months AFTER the playoffs. And he missed around half the season. Where is the advantage there?

I’m acknowledging that he has played when he was hurt.

Am I missing something here?

Vegas didn’t make the playoffs in 2022. Stone has played every game the Knights have played in the playoffs since he joined the team.

He did however join the team late in that season with Vegas needing to do a bunch of LTIR juggling to get him back into the lineup in order to try and help them make the playoffs.

 

[Leafs1991]

I get what you are saying and I understand that pretty much the only thing the owners care about is money, and not so much of the integrity of the game. But just because the owners doesn't have an issue with something, doesn't mean fans can't have.

By accepting what Vegas are doing, the league is paving the way for teams to fake injuries or at the very least prolong them. In my humble opinion, when players are being payed millions of dollars to play hockey, they better ****ing suit up if they are healthy. But maybe that's just me.

You can't fake injuries...

 

[TheSuperElite]

captain of the Vegas Cheating Knights cheats his way to cup wins

 

[canadianmagpie]

Just limit the amount of cap space you get from a player on IR. Take the average contract in the NHL, which is $3.5 million, and then provide up to that amount for someone on IR. So someone on the league minimum only provides that relief and someone like Stone only provides up to $3.5 million.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Why is Gary Bettman allowing Vegas to abuse the cap?

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

You can't fake injuries...

You can get a doctor to give just about any diagnosis you want. There are also injuries that lend themselves to this with a high degree of uncertainty or subjectivity to the diagnosis. For instance, if Stone has a lacerated spleen -- and I think this was actually already pointed out -- there are different degrees of injury there, and depending on whether or not a doctor is feeling generous, you might have a grade that requires six weeks of healing or one you could play through in a week.

And given that the NHL doesn't want a player safety scandal or to piss off the NHLPA, it's not like the league is going to bring in Dr. Nutup to tell these guys they're fine to play through a little pain.