Vegas about to circumvent cap again? UPD: Mark Stone back practicing.

[TheBeard]

No one is staying in Canada now.

This is bad for the league if even Canadians would rather go make more money in a tax-free state. If the goal of the NHL was to have 10 teams with 400 million dollar payrolls then they're well on their way.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

1. I don't care what u or the owners says... I said what I would do to make the league better and grow.

I'm just going to stop right here.

Do you do this with everything in life? Bitch about what you'd do, regardless of what anyone else thinks or how much it makes no sense, violates existing laws and regulations, etc., and then get pissed that it doesn't happen? Because that's pretty much everything in your post: I would ______, everyone who doesn't like that can go f*** themselves, f*** what a CBA would say about it, f*** what the NHLPA would say about it, f*** what the owners would say about it, I'm going to rule as NHL Emperor and make all of this happen.

And if you think that's a solution to anything, I've got ... really, really bad news for you.

 

[TheBeard]

Except in a salary cap league no team is good enough to withstand major injuries.

So basically a team with a player on LTIR can't really take advantage of the space if they're coming back at some point in the regular season. They're actually being punished for better health.

 

[joepeps]

I would use the term utilize it's more neutral but to be sure go all in on your opinion here.

Like I said before they aren't breaking any rules so the upset is kind of ridiculous in a way.

I don't know I don't follow twitter as a lot of stuff on social media is garbage and meant to drive reactions.

I'm sure most Vegas fans thought great player X is injured and their first thought was I hope he gets healthy.


Sure I bet the Blacks Hawks intentionally made sure that Hall would be injured and that Corey Perry would go sideways.

Tanking is a BS conspiracy that some hockey fans, many of them follow social media no doubt to reinforce their narrow thinking, that doesn't even make senses for 2 reasons.

1. There is a lottery in place and
2. the difference between 1st pick and second isn't always Mario/Muller

There is always a SC team and a last place team every year, you being a San Jose fan must realize that the Sharks aren't tanking they are a horrible team that needs to rebuild and that doesn't happen at a snap of the fingers, especially is a closed salary cap league.


Who said it would be an entire free market no slaray cap, I said luxury tax with revenue sharing for all teams from the luxury tax.

That way if something like Covid or injuries came up there is some flexibility for teams to be competitive.

Why bring up the Dodgers, which small market baseball folded recently?

Also there is a salary cap in the NHL, why isn't there a cap on tickets prices, especially in the playoffs, or parking or beer?

Fans have been duped by the salary cap by billionaires who indeed are smarter at making tons of money it seems.

They don't get it because they listen to NHL and other who say it won't work.

It works for MLB. Soccer has and open market and no cap and it works and teams don't fold .. why???! Because they make money by selling player and developing.... Omg what a concept.

Arizona can draft we'll be competitive or not and when players get good, sell them to other teams for money and that's the business model.. then use that money to get better while accumulating more draft and young talent to sell until your sustainable....

Or you can just be Arizona now and have the league fund you for 20 years, be shit and lose money and not win anything either

I'm just going to stop right here.

Do you do this with everything in life? Bitch about what you'd do, regardless of what anyone else thinks or how much it makes no sense, violates existing laws and regulations, etc., and then get pissed that it doesn't happen? Because that's pretty much everything in your post: I would ______, everyone who doesn't like that can go f*** themselves, f*** what a CBA would say about it, f*** what the NHLPA would say about it, f*** what the owners would say about it, I'm going to rule as NHL Emperor and make all of this happen.

And if you think that's a solution to anything, I've got ... really, really bad news for you.

Don't read anything else because it proves you wrong...

 

[Three On Zero]

Where is there anyone commending Vegas aside from their own fans? The closest I've seen is acknowledgement that its technically within the rules, but the majority still recognize its not really in the spirit of the salary cap and want the loophole closed

Not hard to find, none of these are Vegas fans

 

[wetcoast]

Breaking rules? Nope. Exploiting the loose interpretation of intent? Yes.

Once again should teams just say well injuries happen and stuff happens and not try to imporve their team?

The LTIR is there for players that are actually injured and can't play.

I can assure you the immediate reaction was a mixture of both concern and excitement simply because Vegas fans have gone through this song and dance so much with taking advantage of the LTIR opportunity. They expect it at this point as if that's part of every team's normal season.

Like I said I think most fans don't think this way, maybe a cynical few.

Tanking is NOT a BS conspiracy. IT may be among the players, but certainly not in the front office who have long term plans in place. Front offices know when it's best to take high risk and when it's best to take low risks. SJ picking up Blackwood to be a 1A and Zadina to be a top 6 forward were done because either it works out and they have pieces or it doesn't and the team sucks with them.

What other FA's did San Jose pass over to sign those guys?

what advantage would the sahrks ahve long trem with Karlsson instead of another #1 draft pick.

Maybe you think it's tanking, i call it reality as every year there is a team in last place and usually it's a mixture of starting with a poor roster, injuries and disappointments, teams cant FA their way out of it and it also doesn't make sense.

Too many people think running an NHL franchise is like running their fantasy team.

It's a win win situation for the team, but they're certainly not making moves to maximize the potential of their team. If you DON'T think Chicago tanked last year then I have a couple bridges to sell you.

Okay exactly what moves could the Black Hawks realistically have done or the Sharks?

The rev sharing of a luxury tax is a small drop in the hat in terms of what the big markets make in terms of off the field revenue. The only people that end up happy with the results of revenue sharing are the owners and the fans of the teams paying. The money the smaller markets get doesn't go back into the team's future.

The big markets are always going to make boatloads of money.

Do you think the Leafs or NYR have less revenue because of the salary cap, it's the players and fans that lose and people who think they know economics more than billionaires who probably laugh at cost controls when they all believe in a total free market as far as running their teams outside of salaries.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

So basically a team with a player on LTIR can't really take advantage of the space if they're coming back at some point in the regular season. They're actually being punished for better health.

"It's not fair that we get punished for having good health; it would be more fair to punish teams who have a ton of injuries that they can't control."

I want to say I'm fathomed by this kind of "logic" that people are displaying all over this thread, but I'm so not. If anything I'm really disappointed that so many people can't put in 15 seconds of critical thinking to ask why might this not make any sense?

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Okay exactly what moves could the Black Hawks realistically have done or the Sharks?

They should have been forced to have a better team.

Oh, ignore the fact that throughout NHL history owners have intentionally put out shitty teams for no other reason than "I can" and "that saves me money," and ignore that Article 5 explicitly gives owners the power to run their teams in whatever manner they see fit (pursuant to following all the other items outlined in the CBA), Bettman should have made them spend more money and put together better teams.

Also: Gary Bettman is a dictator who ignores all the owners and does whatever he wants, someone needs to reign that bastard in and put him in check and the owners really need to fire him and put in someone else who'll be dictator but also listen to them and do whatever they want.

 

[TheBeard]

"It's not fair that we get punished for having good health; it would be more fair to punish teams who have a ton of injuries that they can't control."

I want to say I'm fathomed by this kind of "logic" that people are displaying all over this thread, but I'm so not. If anything I'm really disappointed that so many people can't put in 15 seconds of critical thinking to ask why might this not make any sense?

Injuries have always been part of the game. Of every sport. Health used to be a big part of why teams win the ultimate prize. Vegas seems to have an insane amount of injury issues throughout the season, yet I can't think of a single time they had any sort of real injury in any of their playoff runs. Can you?

 

[wetcoast]

So basically a team with a player on LTIR can't really take advantage of the space if they're coming back at some point in the regular season. They're actually being punished for better health.

You act like the players on LTIR are playing or something and they aren't.

That hurts any team when a regular player is injured.

It's like having the spare in the trunk and not suing it for a flat tire and instead paying full dollar for a tow.

 

[TheBeard]

The big markets are always going to make boatloads of money.

Do you think the Leafs or NYR have less revenue because of the salary cap, it's the players and fans that lose and people who think they know economics more than billionaires who probably laugh at cost controls when they all believe in a total free market as far as running their teams outside of salaries.

But what does that have to do with a luxury tax? All the luxury tax is is hush money for the owners to not make a stink about the lack of parity. It would have zero influence on the actual playing field.

You act like the players on LTIR are playing or something and they aren't.

That hurts any team when a regular player is injured.

It's like having the spare in the trunk and not suing it for a flat tire and instead paying full dollar for a tow.

There's a big difference between having a player on LTIR and a player on LTIR knowingly for the regular season. You still have to be cap compliant when the player on LTIR is healthy and able.

Okay exactly what moves could the Black Hawks realistically have done or the Sharks?

They both did exactly what they should have because tanking is a thing. It's not a shock they're the two worst teams in the league by like 10 points.

 

[wetcoast]

Injuries have always been part of the game. Of every sport. Health used to be a big part of why teams win the ultimate prize. Vegas seems to have an insane amount of injury issues throughout the season, yet I can't think of a single time they had any sort of real injury in any of their playoff runs. Can you?

Like the thread and most of your posts on this thread it's a nice idea but reality states otherwise.

A complete list of man games lost by NHL team so far this season

Injuries take a major toll on an NHL team. For some, it can be the difference between making the post season and ending up in the draft lottery when everything is said and done. With that in mind, the Twitter account NHLInjuryViz has compiled a list of the man games lost per team in the NHL this...

www.markerzone.com

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

The amount of idiotic pearl clutching about this is insufferable.

The fact that some honestly believe pro athletes will willingly sit out significant portions of seasons is unbelievable. If you believe that then you have 2 brain cells and they're fighting for 3rd place.

It boils down to Canadian fans being mad a southern team is better than them

 

[TheBeard]

Too many people think running an NHL franchise is like running their fantasy team.

And many seem to think Front Offices don't have long term visions in terms of drafting high and building a future.

I'm legit shocked if you truly don't think the Hawks purposely tanked to get Bedard. They literally traded away anyone with talent - from Debrincat and Dach to Strobe to McCabe. They probably would have traded Kane earlier but he had that pesky NMC and wasn't ready to go. Out of all the goalies they could have put in nets, they opted to go with Petr Mrazek and Alec Stalock.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Injuries have always been part of the game. Of every sport. Health used to be a big part of why teams win the ultimate prize. Vegas seems to have an insane amount of injury issues throughout the season, yet I can't think of a single time they had any sort of real injury in any of their playoff runs. Can you?

I'm not going to spend all night long on this - maybe someone else will indulge you - but ... this one seems particularly memorable, and I would call it a "real injury" though YMMV:

Reports: Golden Knights goalie Brossoit undergoing testing for injury

There was no update on Laurent Brossoit on Tuesday, after the Vegas Golden Knights goalie had to be helped off the ice in Monday's Game 3 victory over Edmonton.

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[Three On Zero]

Injuries have always been part of the game. Of every sport. Health used to be a big part of why teams win the ultimate prize. Vegas seems to have an insane amount of injury issues throughout the season, yet I can't think of a single time they had any sort of real injury in any of their playoff runs. Can you?

Adin Hill? 4th string goalie?

 

[TheBeard]

Like the thread and most of your posts on this thread it's a nice idea but reality states otherwise.

A complete list of man games lost by NHL team so far this season

Injuries take a major toll on an NHL team. For some, it can be the difference between making the post season and ending up in the draft lottery when everything is said and done. With that in mind, the Twitter account NHLInjuryViz has compiled a list of the man games lost per team in the NHL this...

www.markerzone.com

Vegas had a rough go with injuries this year. Theodore lost like 30 games, Stone's gonna miss about 30, Eichel missed about 15-20, Carrier's been out most of the year, at a point they were down both Thompson and Hill in nets. Dorofeyev is just skating now after being out about 6 weeks.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

And many seem to think Front Offices don't have long term visions in terms of drafting high and building a future.

I'm legit shocked if you truly don't think the Hawks purposely tanked to get Bedard. They literally traded away anyone with talent - from Debrincat and Dach to Strobe to McCabe. They probably would have traded Kane earlier but he had that pesky NMC and wasn't ready to go. Out of all the goalies they could have put in nets, they opted to go with Petr Mrazek and Alec Stalock.

A bad team trading short term assets for long term ones isn't tanking, its smart management.

 

[Edmonton East]

Don't worry, Vegas fans are assuring us that nobody cares about this sort of stuff and it's stupid to want the league to enforce rules.

Well, they are gonna have to address it now. Because otherwise every contender is gonna abuse this next year. They are making it so obvious now that a rule change is needed or next year will be wild.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

It's clear adding that city of satanic indulgence to the NHL was a mistake.

Hopefully Bettman will do what needs to be done and contract the Golden Knights

 

[TheBeard]

I'm not going to spend all night long on this - maybe someone else will indulge you - but ... this one seems particularly memorable, and I would call it a "real injury" though YMMV:

Reports: Golden Knights goalie Brossoit undergoing testing for injury

There was no update on Laurent Brossoit on Tuesday, after the Vegas Golden Knights goalie had to be helped off the ice in Monday's Game 3 victory over Edmonton.

www.sportsnet.ca

That's all you've got? Broissoit?

A bad team trading short term assets for long term ones isn't tanking, its smart management.

Tanking is smart management. It doesn't look good for the league but it's a smart move by teams. Sharks are currently doing their own version of it. Bringing in Kyle Burroughs and Jan Ruuta as your marquee additions to an already league-worst defense isn't exactly setting yourself up for success.

 

[Curufinwe]

Your team has to be good enough to withstand major injuries in the first place

Which Vegas was not in 2021-22.

 

[joepeps]

But what does that have to do with a luxury tax? All the luxury tax is is hush money for the owners to not make a stink about the lack of parity. It would have zero influence on the actual playing field.


There's a big difference between having a player on LTIR and a player on LTIR knowingly for the regular season. You still have to be cap compliant when the player on LTIR is healthy and able.


They both did exactly what they should have because tanking is a thing. It's not a shock they're the two worst teams in the league by like 10 points.

Actually. More variety of teams have won the cup pre salary cap than most cap for 20 year span...

So it's fake parity... The same teams are winning the cup lol

 

[JLo217]

The amount of idiotic pearl clutching about this is insufferable.

The fact that some honestly believe pro athletes will willingly sit out significant portions of seasons is unbelievable. If you believe that then you have 2 brain cells and they're fighting for 3rd place.

It boils down to Canadian fans being mad a southern team is better than them

Uhhhh.... This has 100% happened lol. And has nothing to do with Canada vs. US. Players have retired early and taken jobs to help their teams out.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

That's all you've got? Broissoit?

Let me double-check the question here:

Injuries have always been part of the game. Of every sport. Health used to be a big part of why teams win the ultimate prize. Vegas seems to have an insane amount of injury issues throughout the season, yet I can't think of a single time they had any sort of real injury in any of their playoff runs. Can you?

I'm only a math major, I only do math for a living, but by my count - and maybe someone else can double-check this for me:

Reports: Golden Knights goalie Brossoit undergoing testing for injury

There was no update on Laurent Brossoit on Tuesday, after the Vegas Golden Knights goalie had to be helped off the ice in Monday's Game 3 victory over Edmonton.

www.sportsnet.ca

Would at least be a "single time they had any sort of real injury in any of their playoff runs."

So, you're welcome. Now you can think of one. If that's not sufficient for you, please state how many injuries you need to have evidence of and what kind of proof [if any] you need to substantiate those injuries so that anyone else attempting to respond know exactly what threshold they're expected to meet, lest you shift the goalposts some more.

That will not be, me, though, because ... and I'll say it again:

I'm not going to spend all night long on this - maybe someone else will indulge you