Proposal: Varlamov for Koskinen +

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CupHolders

Really Fries My Bananas!
Aug 8, 2006
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If the islanders are okay with locking up $9 Million between their two guys I guess whatever advantage with getting Koskinen and his expiring contract is pretty much gone. fair enough.

I did notice that the Islanders have around $10 Million on the IR and LTIR right now. They also have three relatively small contracts and Cal Clutterbuck ($3.5) coming off the books next year. Do Islander fans see any cap crunch coming? At first glance it looks that way.

As per the bolded… it’s not really clear. Most conventional opinion by fans on this site would be that there is an opportunity to better allocate cap space from the goalie position to somewhere else in the lineup.

But a I can’t say the Isles organization may have the same view. They like to have depth including at the goalie position.

Trotz has mentioned (I paraphrase) that until a goalie gets 70 games, you don’t really know what you have. So I’m not certain they are as quick to make Sorokin the number one as much as us Isles fans are.

Also, I have a hard time seeing Lou writing off the season until after the Isles finally play somewhat of a normalized schedule. This whole year has been starts and stops due to road trip and COVID.

As for the Isles cap, Hickey (currently buried) and Clutterbuck will be coming off this offseason. No major UFA re-signings are required.

So to summarize, I’m not criticizing the mindset of moving Varlamov to open space elsewhere. I’m merely contending that Varlomov is not necessarily considered as a backup or struggling by the Isles… as some of the narrative would suggest in this thread.

What does that mean for him being traded and for what? :dunno:
 

McSuper

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One of many “we want your player but he’s also garbage and not worth much” threads.


Just because one fan post a thread it doesn't mean all that teams fan base agrees . The OP never said he is garbage . He said it thought it would help the NYI with cap . Why do fans twist what some people posts ? Like I said this needs to be revisited in the off season .With Koskinen out of the picture makes it easier .
 
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CupHolders

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I don't think I have seen any of this "misinformation" you're talking about in this thread.

Quite literally, every Oiler fan has been open saying Varlamov is better than Koskinen by a fair bit. People have noted his stats this season are down, but no one is arguing he wouldn't be the starter on the Oilers.

At this point, I am 100% certain people are reading maybe the first page of the thread, and then replying as if they've read the whole thread.

Deal. Only. Makes. Sense. If. NYI. Want. Cap. Flexibility. - Oilers fans



100%. I don't reckon Oilers fans are actively looking to aquire a goalie that's "the same/worse" than Koskinen for an extra year and a high pick lol

Misinformation in the sense that some are assuming or stating he is a backup. Clearly the goal is for Sorokin to become the franchise goalie.

But nothing thus far suggests that they are anything but a tandem. The numbers from the outside look like Varlamov is a backup. But that was because of time missed injured.
 

Figgy44

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Same goes for your guy. Flames aren't exactly tearing up the league, are they?

I don't think that comment necessarily has to be interpreted as an insult. I think he's right. With how Holland has idiotically painted himself into a corner, any other GM would easily attempt to leverage a round upgrade for a goalie that's an upgrade for Edmonton. If I were an Oiler fan, I'd rage at Holland vs the concept that almost all other GM could leverage up a hell of a premium on releasing a goalie to Edmonton, especially when Holland has tipped his hand constantly.

If dumping Koskinen's salary costs a 3rd and and Varly straight up with worth a 3rd (ie: Price to acquire Varly would be two thirds or a late 2nd ish) because I have no dire need to move Varly (and I'm gangster Lou in real life), I'm good playing my poker hand where I bend Holland over or end up with nothing deal wise with Edmonton...

I'm either demanding a higher 2nd rounder as a premium, or a conditional first from Edmonton with a conditional pick going the other way.

Something like:

Koskinen + mid 2nd for Varly
or
Koskinen + Conditional 1st (Mid/late) for Varly + Conditional 2nd (conditions on both being Varly plays at least a combined 20 games for playoffs and regular season and Oilers make it to the WC finals)

Lou can also eat cap to make the assets work. A similar deal could possibly be forwarded to someone like Colorado (ie: If they don't want to ride Kuemper and Frank into the playoffs or if injury occurs)


Holland went all in on Markstrom this off season and missed. Flames didn't stop at Markstrom, we went after guys like Vladar who was changing hands as well. This was a pretty damn active off season for goaltenders. Holland could have aimed at Grubauer as well IMO but his activity on goaltenders was inexplicably low. His solution was 2 years of Smith, but Oilers fans already understand this: 1 year, sure. But two years? It was predictable all along and once Smith crumpled into a dusty heap, all GMs getting calls on goalies are probably like:

 
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CupHolders

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I don't think that comment necessarily has to be interpreted as an insult. I think he's right. With how Holland has idiotically painted himself into a corner, any other GM would easily attempt to leverage a round upgrade for a goalie that's an upgrade for Edmonton. If I were an Oiler fan, I'd rage at Holland vs the concept that almost all other GM could leverage up a hell of a premium on releasing a goalie to Edmonton, especially when Holland has tipped his hand constantly.

If dumping Koskinen's salary costs a 3rd and and Varly straight up with worth a 3rd (ie: Price to acquire Varly would be two thirds or a late 2nd ish) because I have no dire need to move Varly (and I'm gangster Lou in real life), I'm good playing my poker hand where I bend Holland over or end up with nothing deal wise with Edmonton...

I'm either demanding a higher 2nd rounder as a premium, or a conditional first from Edmonton with a conditional pick going the other way.

Something like:

Koskinen + mid 2nd for Varly
or
Koskinen + Conditional 1st (Mid/late) for Varly + Conditional 2nd (conditions on both being Varly plays at least a combined 20 games for playoffs and regular season and Oilers make it to the WC finals)

Lou can also eat cap to make the assets work. A similar deal could possibly be forwarded to someone like Colorado (ie: If they don't want to ride Kuemper and Frank into the playoffs or if injury occurs)


Lou went all in on Markstrom this off season and missed. Flames didn't stop at Markstrom, we went after guys like Vladar who was changing hands as well. This was a pretty damn active off season for goaltenders. He could have aimed at Grubauer as well IMO. His solution was 2 years of Smith, but Oilers fans already understand this: 1 year, sure. But two years? It was predictable all along and once Smith crumpled into a dusty heap, all GMs getting calls on goalies are probably like:



Lou went after Markstrom? Lou.. Lamoriello? Nah.

@OG Eberle can I edit my previous reply and submit this as misinformation. :sarcasm:
 
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CupHolders

Really Fries My Bananas!
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I made an error and then I fixed it. I meant Holland, not Lou.

I caught it within a few minutes of posting, but good job grabbing the evidence lightning fast before I could ninja edit it.

Lol… happens to all of us from time to time. It just really stood out because the whole transition from Lehner to Varlamov was big debate on the Isles board at the time.

It was clear to most that it was all done to setup an eventual situation with Sorokin.

So for Lou to just throw that on the side after Sorokin’s rookie year…
 
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TFHockey

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I don't think that comment necessarily has to be interpreted as an insult. I think he's right. With how Holland has idiotically painted himself into a corner, any other GM would easily attempt to leverage a round upgrade for a goalie that's an upgrade for Edmonton. If I were an Oiler fan, I'd rage at Holland vs the concept that almost all other GM could leverage up a hell of a premium on releasing a goalie to Edmonton, especially when Holland has tipped his hand constantly.

If dumping Koskinen's salary costs a 3rd and and Varly straight up with worth a 3rd (ie: Price to acquire Varly would be two thirds or a late 2nd ish) because I have no dire need to move Varly (and I'm gangster Lou in real life), I'm good playing my poker hand where I bend Holland over or end up with nothing deal wise with Edmonton...

I'm either demanding a higher 2nd rounder as a premium, or a conditional first from Edmonton with a conditional pick going the other way.

Something like:

Koskinen + mid 2nd for Varly
or
Koskinen + Conditional 1st (Mid/late) for Varly + Conditional 2nd (conditions on both being Varly plays at least a combined 20 games for playoffs and regular season and Oilers make it to the WC finals)

Lou can also eat cap to make the assets work. A similar deal could possibly be forwarded to someone like Colorado (ie: If they don't want to ride Kuemper and Frank into the playoffs or if injury occurs)


Holland went all in on Markstrom this off season and missed. Flames didn't stop at Markstrom, we went after guys like Vladar who was changing hands as well. This was a pretty damn active off season for goaltenders. Holland could have aimed at Grubauer as well IMO but his activity on goaltenders was inexplicably low. His solution was 2 years of Smith, but Oilers fans already understand this: 1 year, sure. But two years? It was predictable all along and once Smith crumpled into a dusty heap, all GMs getting calls on goalies are probably like:



I am totally okay with Koskinen and a 2nd for Varlamov as I see Var as a noticeable upgrade on what we have. Skinner will one day be a full time NHL goaltender. He just isn't quite ready yet.

I totally agree, as do most Oiler fans, that Holland squandered all of the amazing cap space that was available to him this past off season.

A lot of fans go on about how GMs are going to bend each other over. In most cases they ignore the fact that the other team also is struggling. Yes the NYI got hosed by NHL scheduling this season. A 13 game road trip to START the season? I've never seen that before. Brutal. It put them behind the proverbial eight ball.

A lot of fans are "certain" the Islanders move up from dead last in the Metro and they probably will, but they need to make up a lot of points to make the playoffs and the runway to do so is getting shorter and shorter. So there some pressure on the Islanders to do something as well. It works both ways.

Maybe the Oilers bend the Islanders over who are desperate to make a deal and get to the show? Probably not but you see my point.
 
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LeapOnOver

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Varlamov is a backup with significantly worse stats than the starter. This trade does make Isles worse.... which will upgrade your 1st rounder. And, it clears out some cap space to be aggressive with in the offseason.

If you wait to get your next Leddy for this trade you'll be waiting a long while

Besides, this trade wont happen. This isnt a knock on the Isles. Koskinen has a NTC and he will only waive to go to a different playoff team

You have no idea what you are talking about. Varlamov is not now, and probably years away if ever from being a backup. You have to wonder why the Oilers always suffer at goal, perhaps fans mental attitude creeps into management. Varlamov would be a stud in Edmonton just like he has been in NY.
 
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ManofSteel55

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Aug 15, 2013
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I don't think that comment necessarily has to be interpreted as an insult. I think he's right. With how Holland has idiotically painted himself into a corner, any other GM would easily attempt to leverage a round upgrade for a goalie that's an upgrade for Edmonton. If I were an Oiler fan, I'd rage at Holland vs the concept that almost all other GM could leverage up a hell of a premium on releasing a goalie to Edmonton, especially when Holland has tipped his hand constantly.

If dumping Koskinen's salary costs a 3rd and and Varly straight up with worth a 3rd (ie: Price to acquire Varly would be two thirds or a late 2nd ish) because I have no dire need to move Varly (and I'm gangster Lou in real life), I'm good playing my poker hand where I bend Holland over or end up with nothing deal wise with Edmonton...

I'm either demanding a higher 2nd rounder as a premium, or a conditional first from Edmonton with a conditional pick going the other way.

Something like:

Koskinen + mid 2nd for Varly
or
Koskinen + Conditional 1st (Mid/late) for Varly + Conditional 2nd (conditions on both being Varly plays at least a combined 20 games for playoffs and regular season and Oilers make it to the WC finals)

Lou can also eat cap to make the assets work. A similar deal could possibly be forwarded to someone like Colorado (ie: If they don't want to ride Kuemper and Frank into the playoffs or if injury occurs)


Holland went all in on Markstrom this off season and missed. Flames didn't stop at Markstrom, we went after guys like Vladar who was changing hands as well. This was a pretty damn active off season for goaltenders. Holland could have aimed at Grubauer as well IMO but his activity on goaltenders was inexplicably low. His solution was 2 years of Smith, but Oilers fans already understand this: 1 year, sure. But two years? It was predictable all along and once Smith crumpled into a dusty heap, all GMs getting calls on goalies are probably like:


Holland tried on goalies and failed. Trying and failing is worse than not trying. For 2 gosh darn summers in a row, he tried and failed.
 

Figgy44

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Holland tried on goalies and failed. Trying and failing is worse than not trying. For 2 gosh darn summers in a row, he tried and failed.

I think it's salt on the wounds to think that Oilers management can trick you guys in thinking that Holland's attempts at a goalie are even worth mentioning as an attempt... I almost imagine Holland's inquiry into a goalie are like those cliche old person trapped in answering machine type of attempts at a phone call.
 

Patagonia

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Holland tried on goalies and failed. Trying and failing is worse than not trying. For 2 gosh darn summers in a row, he tried and failed.

Oilers could have easily signed Grubs . He only wanted money after years being the backup, he was a successful Starter with the AVS and their high powered fast game similar to the Oilers. Salary differences between COL vs SEA is less than $500K per, many thought with all the Oilers cap easily outbid every team.

I believe this season is nearly lost and should consider the offseason. It would be extremely costly with every team knowing the desparation.
 

SeanMoneyHands

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Koskinen is pretty much untradable unless the Oilers throw in a pick or a decent player on top. They're best off letting his contract expire this summer and just sign someone like Korpisalo.
 

ManofSteel55

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I think it's salt on the wounds to think that Oilers management can trick you guys in thinking that Holland's attempts at a goalie are even worth mentioning as an attempt... I almost imagine Holland's inquiry into a goalie are like those cliche old person trapped in answering machine type of attempts at a phone call.
I think it depends on which time we are talking about. I think he went hard for Markstrom and lost out because he would have rather played in Calgary (or he stopped increasing his price). I think he went hard at Kuemper but was outbid by Sakic. At the time, it looked like too much for Kuemper, but Kuemper instead of an injured Smith probably would have made a big difference to this part of the season so it may have been worth it. We don't really know how hard he went after other guys though. We don't know if he talked to Carolina about Ned before the move to Detroit was finalized. I know we would look a lot better with Ned in the lineup as part of an Ethan Bear trade over Foegle (and I like Foegle, so that's not a shot at him), and I can't imagine Carolina would rather have had that mid round pick for Ned than Bear, or Bear and a pick for Ned and Foegle. We don't know what kind of offer he made Ullmark. We don't know a lot of things, other than that Holland has failed to upgrade the goaltending for the Oilers for two years now, and the only reason we weren't screaming like this last year was that Mike Smith played far above what was expected last year.
 

Figgy44

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I think it depends on which time we are talking about. I think he went hard for Markstrom and lost out because he would have rather played in Calgary (or he stopped increasing his price). I think he went hard at Kuemper but was outbid by Sakic. At the time, it looked like too much for Kuemper, but Kuemper instead of an injured Smith probably would have made a big difference to this part of the season so it may have been worth it. We don't really know how hard he went after other guys though. We don't know if he talked to Carolina about Ned before the move to Detroit was finalized. I know we would look a lot better with Ned in the lineup as part of an Ethan Bear trade over Foegle (and I like Foegle, so that's not a shot at him), and I can't imagine Carolina would rather have had that mid round pick for Ned than Bear, or Bear and a pick for Ned and Foegle. We don't know what kind of offer he made Ullmark. We don't know a lot of things, other than that Holland has failed to upgrade the goaltending for the Oilers for two years now, and the only reason we weren't screaming like this last year was that Mike Smith played far above what was expected last year.

The Oilers extended Mike Smith a week before Grubauer (July 21) signed in Seattle (July 28) last season. That was kinda idiotic too. Basically nearly no one bid on a pretty good goaltender that the Oilers desperately needed. The German connection between Grubauer and Draisaitl might have helped the Oilers too... but now that I think about it, is this around the same time he went on that screwy LTIR/salary cap math mumbling interview going back and forth with Klefbom's cap hit that everyone was laughing about? Dude was wonky that summer.

If I were an Oiler fan, I would be livid looking at these main sequences:

- Loses AA to FA after paying a premium for him.
- Extends RNH 5.125 AAV x 8 (fair move)
- Salary considered a premium league wide, Oilers need it for a few moves but should have enough.
- July 12 adds cap by adding Keith (considered an overpay by many); left with around 10 mil cap space with 10 forwards and 7 dmen
- July 21 extends Smith 2.2 AAV 2 years
- August 6, extends Nurse 9.25 AAV x 8

- Grubauer signs in Seattle July 28

The answer was fricken right there with zero acquisition cost! And don't tell he couldn't get the cap to work. There's no way he couldn't have sent a 2nd with the 3.7 AAV ish cap (difference between his and Smith's contract) to Seattle to fit Grubauer.

But honestly speaking, I seem to recall that when Holland was in Detroit, there was always this tire kicking meme of him going around prior to TDL and then variations of him sitting on his hands post TDL. The MO seems to be unchanged even in Edmonton. I don't think the tire kicking is as much of an indication of anything. Acquisition wise, Holland hasn't seemed to commit to any form of a big deal in the last decade. AA might be the closest. He's certainly sold a few players in the last decade for a haul though (so at least that's kinda hopeful for you guys if things get truly that bad).
 

WetcoastOrca

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I think Holland has painted himself into a corner and will have to overpay for a goalie. He’s been actively looking the last two years and has struck out despite the fact that many quality goalies have changed hands. He’s desperate at this point and can’t really waste another prime year of McDrai especially if he misses the playoffs. If Varly is available he needs to make a move, even if it’s an over pay.
 

ManofSteel55

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The Oilers extended Mike Smith a week before Grubauer (July 21) signed in Seattle (July 28) last season. That was kinda idiotic too. Basically nearly no one bid on a pretty good goaltender that the Oilers desperately needed. The German connection between Grubauer and Draisaitl might have helped the Oilers too... but now that I think about it, is this around the same time he went on that screwy LTIR/salary cap math mumbling interview going back and forth with Klefbom's cap hit that everyone was laughing about? Dude was wonky that summer.

If I were an Oiler fan, I would be livid looking at these main sequences:

- Loses AA to FA after paying a premium for him.
- Extends RNH 5.125 AAV x 8 (fair move)
- Salary considered a premium league wide, Oilers need it for a few moves but should have enough.
- July 12 adds cap by adding Keith (considered an overpay by many); left with around 10 mil cap space with 10 forwards and 7 dmen
- July 21 extends Smith 2.2 AAV 2 years
- August 6, extends Nurse 9.25 AAV x 8

- Grubauer signs in Seattle July 28

The answer was fricken right there with zero acquisition cost! And don't tell he couldn't get the cap to work. There's no way he couldn't have sent a 2nd with the 3.7 AAV ish cap (difference between his and Smith's contract) to Seattle to fit Grubauer.

But honestly speaking, I seem to recall that when Holland was in Detroit, there was always this tire kicking meme of him going around prior to TDL and then variations of him sitting on his hands post TDL. The MO seems to be unchanged even in Edmonton. I don't think the tire kicking is as much of an indication of anything. Acquisition wise, Holland hasn't seemed to commit to any form of a big deal in the last decade. AA might be the closest. He's certainly sold a few players in the last decade for a haul though (so at least that's kinda hopeful for you guys if things get truly that bad).
Yeah, Smith felt like a panic move from the get-go. He then kept blaming having Koskinen under contract as a reason he couldn't upgrade.

Trust me, I'm livid about a few other things as well.

1) Not claiming Nedjelkovic on waivers
2) Not being able to make a trade for Nedjelkovic when we needed a goalie desperately.
3) Not going for Grubauer

As per your list above:
I don't mind the AA deal. I defended the trade for him at the time, and I wish we had more time to see if he could fit, but I also recognize that he was overpaid at the time so we shouldn't have traded 2nd rounders for him. Losing him to FA was probably better than re-signing him for a raise.
The RNH extension is fine.
The Keith trade would have been excellent with some retention on the deal. I still think he made the team better by upgrading from Caleb Jones to Keith, but he murdered too much cap space while doing it. The real issue with this trade was that they gave Chicago the cap space to overpay Seth Jones, which led to the #1 defenseman market being obliterated last year, precisely when we needed to extend Nurse.
Signing Smith would have been fine. Signing him for 2 years was awful.
Signing Nurse had to happen. He's evolved into a #1 defenseman. The first we've really had since Pronger left 15 years ago. As I mentioned above, it kills me that they contributed to the Jones deal, which led to Nurse's price skyrocketing. Switch up the order of events. Sign Nurse earlier, and I wonder if they could have saved 1.5 M on his deal. If he didn't have Jones and Werenski to use as comparables, there's no way he's getting his huge raise. And for the record, if he plays like he did last year, I have no issue with that salary. It makes things tight, but based on last year, he was worth that contract.
Signing Nurse was great. Not signing him long term earlier was the mistake.
 
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Figgy44

A toast of purple gato for the memories
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Damn, I forgot the Keith thing contributed to the Jones/Nurse explosions as well.

I agree the AA and RNH moves were fair moves. But everything after that seemed in completely the wrong order and focus after that with the Keith move facilitating multiple self inflicted foot shooting incidents. The Nurse thing I agree the Oilers had to do, it was just inexplicably odd that Holland didn't insist on maxing out at 8.99 AAV and doing it early. The Keith and Smith moves seemed desperate for an inexplicable reason. Why the hell would you focus on roster building in that manner? It's so weird.

Not trying to rub salt in the wounds, but Nedjelkovic played in Plymouth from 2012-2015 and won a bunch of accolades during that time. Holland should have absolutely known about him. But if I want to guess why maybe he didn't want to acquire him... IIRC, the reasons Carolina moved on from Ned were similar to the reasons Holland moved on from Mrazek (some type of rumor of attitude concerns IIRC). I wonder if that scared him off.
 

Nico Hischier

Registered User
Nov 22, 2017
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Think it would take someone like pulujarvi to get varlamov and also think Oilers should do it. Do I think it’s fair value... no it’s an overpayment but one that would be worth it especially if you get to sign evander Kane
 

johnnystormcgy

Registered User
May 26, 2007
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Oilers will need to trade a premium for an goalie. Everyone is aware of their situation and will bend Holland over.

Yup, I suspect he would have made a trade already if he could.

If the they do get a decent goalie, the return is going to make Oilers fans squeal.
 

Czechboy

Češi do toho!
Apr 15, 2018
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Oilers will need to trade a premium for an goalie. Everyone is aware of their situation and will bend Holland over.
So false!

Holland's been bent over for the last decade on 2 different clubs.

Let me know when he actually stands up.haha
 

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