Speculation: Vancouver Canucks are asking for Kadri + Bozak or Kadri + Gardiner for Luongo

[zeke]

I still think Bozak + Franson is a fair deal. Or Bozak + MacArthur.

 

[masarume]

I believe this deal won't get done unless we throw in:

a 1st, Gardiner, or Kadri

Players with value like Bozak and Franson are plentiful around the league. That won't be what makes or breaks the deal.

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

I posted this in another thread, felt the need to post it here.


If Kadri is traded this will go against everything the fan base and management swore they would never support and repeat from past days. Giving up on prospects for older guys that will only come in and perform for a couple of years is not the way to go. Kadri has done everything that has been asked, was the best player in the 09 training camp but was sent down and crushed, asked to go to juniors and dominate, did that. Asked to make the world junior team and be among their best forwards, he started out as the 13th forward and found his way on the top line and won silver and put up 8 points in 6 games being the third best forward after Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle. Went deep into the playoffs in junior. Asked to get stronger and put on weight, which hindered his 2010 camp, so was sent down and asked to dominate in the AHL, did that. Called up to a struggling Leafs team and asked to provide a spark while only playing 10 minutes a night. 2011 camp was asked to get leaner and faster and that there would be a spot for him, gets hurt, loses his spot to Matt Frattin whom while I like, wasn't producing. Asked to stay in the minors and dominate while waiting for a call up, did so, scores 3 goals in 4 games, cools off in the next 7 or 8 games, only receiving 10-12 minutes of ice time in which Matthew Lombardi and Tim Connolly taking up his minutes with little to no offensive output and gets demoted. Sent down and asked to keep playing hard work on some things and promises the kid a call up. Carter Ashton gets on the team at the deadline, and with one call up left for the team to use, call up Carter Ashton over Nazem Kadri who was blazing in the AHL having 11 points in his last 6 games only to see Carter Ashton in 10 games provide no points averaging 14 minutes a game on the first line with a -10. Nazem gets called up for two games with the emergency recall in which he scores a goal and provides the shootout winner. Now asked to get stronger and leaner this summer, Kadri decides to take matters into his own hands by working with Gary Roberts who does charge his players roughly $15,000 for a summer workout program I know because one of my buddies is apart of bio steel, only to be told he has among the highest body fats on the Toronto Marlies which is happens to be one of the fittest and fastest teams in the AHL, starts of slow, gets benched, finds his game and takes the league into his hands and is at a point per game pace doing everything he has been told and removing the deficiencies in his game for example the neutral zone turnovers, inconsistent defensive play, and bonehead penalties, only to be possible trade bait for a 34 year old declining goalie? If he does get traded, I hope he terrorizes the Leafs every couple of months the Canucks play the Leafs, because this is the same sad story with Boyes, Rask, Neidermayer, the list goes on. This kid has everything you can want in a prospect, the hands, the shot, the vision, playmaking ability, was a leader in Kitchener was a leader in London is a young leader with the Marlies, is always among the best players on the ice wherever he goes, is an offensive spark plug, dynamite on the powerplay and always made the Leafs powerplay better when he was called up, has the speed, seriously what more does the fanbase and brass want from a guy? He is young, he'll be inconsistent, he'll occasionally do take out, he'll have the odd beer, but who are we to scrutinize every little thing this kid does when all he does is follow everything asked of him to do.

If this wasnt coming from a super Kadri fan i would of been with it.People need to see Kadri for what he is way over hyped the moment he was drafted Toronto fan has put him on a high rock as being the second coming of a Superstar.What has he shown in the AHL that has been anywhere near showing that he is dominating enough to fully be put in the top 6 line up .?

He just seems like a kid who is going all on his offense skill against boy and once he comes up to the NHL against real men he gets rubbed off like a 12 year old.

Now on the Roberto Luongo trade, We have not had a goalie like him since Ed Belfour a reliable stable goaltender who stables the team in knowing he will make the save when it is needed.Only a few goaltenders have been more consistent then Luongo over the past 6 years even being at 33 years old Goaltenders of his caliber don't get rust in till age 38 (Roloston,Graham,Joseph,Khabibulin) so taking a chance on him would be the best option not only for this team , but also the next 5 years as they are the most important in the Teams past 15 years.

Nazem Kadri for him i would do in a heartbeat no questions asked you have to give some to get some and when we drafted him i shook my head and said WHO?

 

[pspot]

I believe this deal won't get done unless we throw in:

a 1st, Gardiner, or Kadri

Players with value like Bozak and Franson are plentiful around the league. That won't be what makes or breaks the deal.

the value is that Van doesn't have 10+ tied up in goalies and major cap issues next year

they're window to win the cup is quickly closing and they are heading for a wall next year where they will lose most of their depth and have to resign a key player in Edler

 

[ACC1224]

I believe this deal won't get done unless we throw in:

a 1st, Gardiner, or Kadri

Players with value like Bozak and Franson are plentiful around the league. That won't be what makes or breaks the deal.

They may be plentiful around the League but interest in Luongo isn't.

Bozak + 2nd or Macarthur or Franson is fair.

 

[Anthrax442]

actually, 5.3 is pretty cheap for a top goalie.

It's not the 5.3 now. It's the length and the repercussions of the deal that suck.

 

[topched]

As far as the whole Kadri thing goes:

This is NOT like "trading away futures" or "moving young players to get older" and it doesn't go against philosophy.

This isn't like the Leafs drafting Morgan Rielly and trading him away, or the way it was when they moved Tuuka Rask. Nonis and co. know exactly what they have in Kadri. They've got a very clear indication of what he brings, how he's developed and have a well informed opinion on what he will be at the NHL level.

If they move him it is because they don't believe in his ability to fill the role they envisioned when he was drafted.

 

[InterceptSchenn]

As far as the whole Kadri thing goes:

This is NOT like "trading away futures" or "moving young players to get older" and it doesn't go against philosophy.

This isn't like the Leafs drafting Morgan Rielly and trading him away, or the way it was when they moved Tuuka Rask. Nonis and co. know exactly what they have in Kadri. They've got a very clear indication of what he brings, how he's developed and have a well informed opinion on what he will be at the NHL level.

If they move him it is because they don't believe in his ability to fill the role they envisioned when he was drafted.

Perfectly said.

 

[Liferleafer]

As far as the whole Kadri thing goes:

This is NOT like "trading away futures" or "moving young players to get older" and it doesn't go against philosophy.

This isn't like the Leafs drafting Morgan Rielly and trading him away, or the way it was when they moved Tuuka Rask. Nonis and co. know exactly what they have in Kadri. They've got a very clear indication of what he brings, how he's developed and have a well informed opinion on what he will be at the NHL level.

If they move him it is because they don't believe in his ability to fill the role they envisioned when he was drafted.

1 question, where does he fit? He's not a center he's a winger. JVR, Kessel, Lupul,Kuli,Mac,Frattin....i agree mac can go, but that still leaves JVR, Kessel, Lupul and Kuli as your top 6. Kadri is not a 3rd/4th line checker so he just doesnt have a place.

Would i deal him and another piece (Bozak) for Luongo? In a heartbeat.

 

[achtungbaby]

I posted this in another thread, felt the need to post it here.


If Kadri is traded this will go against everything the fan base and management swore they would never support and repeat from past days. Giving up on prospects for older guys that will only come in and perform for a couple of years is not the way to go. Kadri has done everything that has been asked, was the best player in the 09 training camp but was sent down and crushed, asked to go to juniors and dominate, did that. Asked to make the world junior team and be among their best forwards, he started out as the 13th forward and found his way on the top line and won silver and put up 8 points in 6 games being the third best forward after Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle. Went deep into the playoffs in junior. Asked to get stronger and put on weight, which hindered his 2010 camp, so was sent down and asked to dominate in the AHL, did that. Called up to a struggling Leafs team and asked to provide a spark while only playing 10 minutes a night. 2011 camp was asked to get leaner and faster and that there would be a spot for him, gets hurt, loses his spot to Matt Frattin whom while I like, wasn't producing. Asked to stay in the minors and dominate while waiting for a call up, did so, scores 3 goals in 4 games, cools off in the next 7 or 8 games, only receiving 10-12 minutes of ice time in which Matthew Lombardi and Tim Connolly taking up his minutes with little to no offensive output and gets demoted. Sent down and asked to keep playing hard work on some things and promises the kid a call up. Carter Ashton gets on the team at the deadline, and with one call up left for the team to use, call up Carter Ashton over Nazem Kadri who was blazing in the AHL having 11 points in his last 6 games only to see Carter Ashton in 10 games provide no points averaging 14 minutes a game on the first line with a -10. Nazem gets called up for two games with the emergency recall in which he scores a goal and provides the shootout winner. Now asked to get stronger and leaner this summer, Kadri decides to take matters into his own hands by working with Gary Roberts who does charge his players roughly $15,000 for a summer workout program I know because one of my buddies is apart of bio steel, only to be told he has among the highest body fats on the Toronto Marlies which is happens to be one of the fittest and fastest teams in the AHL, starts of slow, gets benched, finds his game and takes the league into his hands and is at a point per game pace doing everything he has been told and removing the deficiencies in his game for example the neutral zone turnovers, inconsistent defensive play, and bonehead penalties, only to be possible trade bait for a 34 year old declining goalie? If he does get traded, I hope he terrorizes the Leafs every couple of months the Canucks play the Leafs, because this is the same sad story with Boyes, Rask, Neidermayer, the list goes on. This kid has everything you can want in a prospect, the hands, the shot, the vision, playmaking ability, was a leader in Kitchener was a leader in London is a young leader with the Marlies, is always among the best players on the ice wherever he goes, is an offensive spark plug, dynamite on the powerplay and always made the Leafs powerplay better when he was called up, has the speed, seriously what more does the fanbase and brass want from a guy? He is young, he'll be inconsistent, he'll occasionally do take out, he'll have the odd beer, but who are we to scrutinize every little thing this kid does when all he does is follow everything asked of him to do.

Paragraphs are your friend. That was really tough to read on a phone.

 

[Zeroknowledge*]

Getting Luongo might get the Leafs to the playoffs and that's a "BIG MIGHT" but will they go beyond the first round? Doubtful... MLSE is doing this as a business trade, hoping they get playoff revenues out of a round and HOPEFULLY 2, just a dumb inevitable trade.

Canadian teams in general and especially the big 4 (MTL, TOR, VAN and CGY) need to swallow their pride and learn how to proprely rebuild a team in the modern day NHL, shortcuts might buy you a year or 2 of finishing 7th or 8th but then after trading many picks and prospects they miss the playoffs and use the same shortcuts again and hope that maybe just maybe they will finish 7th or 8th next year.

You'd think the Leafs learned from this but hearing the Luongo rumors prove to the contrary, The Flames are headed to the bottom of the western conference and if they fail once again to trade Iginla and Kiprusoff for prospects this year will only prove that Button is an incompetent GM. The Canucks are solid now and you'd hope the Habs don't take any shortcuts this year by trading prospects and picks at the deadline if they're flirting with the playoffs.

 

[fahad203]

remember the situation with Anson Carter back 5 years ago? he priced himself out of a deal?

I think you'll see the same. Van asking too much from every team. Season will start, some goalies and teams will start winning, there will be no need for Loungo.

40 + million dollar left on a guranteed contract, you have two buy outs, but you still have to pay him that money.

Let them trade Lou to Florida.

 

[topched]

1 question, where does he fit? He's not a center he's a winger. JVR, Kessel, Lupul,Kuli,Mac,Frattin....i agree mac can go, but that still leaves JVR, Kessel, Lupul and Kuli as your top 6. Kadri is not a 3rd/4th line checker so he just doesnt have a place.

Would i deal him and another piece (Bozak) for Luongo? In a heartbeat.

I agree with you. Its tough to gauge what the Leafs opinion of him is. Does Eakins think he can be a top 6 NHL forward? Carlyle?

One thing is for certain, we have an abundance of top 6 winger depth. Between Lupul, Kessel, and JVR. We've also got a 2nd line centre in place for the next handful of years in Grabo.

I truly think that Nonis can go out and get a better winger to play in the top six... Corey Perry is one example. We've got so much salary coming off the books that it makes sense to try and upgrade that way. Not to mention we've got to account for the resurgance of Kuli to a degree.

Kadri's value has already hit its peak and it will continue to decline. I would easily move him in a package for a guy like Bernier for example, or another similar goaltending prospect. Even a young Dman, maybe Ryan Ellis?

 

[CerebralDevil]

Well there is a reason obviously why Carter and Colborne are not at camp. Eakins has a huge influence here and has probably said that these two need to know how to use their bodies better to play in the NHL.

 

[Liferleafer]

I agree with you. Its tough to gauge what the Leafs opinion of him is. Does Eakins think he can be a top 6 NHL forward? Carlyle?

One thing is for certain, we have an abundance of top 6 winger depth. Between Lupul, Kessel, and JVR. We've also got a 2nd line centre in place for the next handful of years in Grabo.

I truly think that Nonis can go out and get a better winger to play in the top six... Corey Perry is one example. We've got so much salary coming off the books that it makes sense to try and upgrade that way. Not to mention we've got to account for the resurgance of Kuli to a degree.

Kadri's value has already hit its peak and it will continue to decline. I would easily move him in a package for a guy like Bernier for example, or another similar goaltending prospect. Even a young Dman, maybe Ryan Ellis?

Yup, if i can fill a need with Kadri, i pull the trigger. Goalie, 1C, top 6 winger, shutdown D. I know it would have to be a package, but dealing from strength to fill a weakness is how you better your team.

 

[masarume]

I don't understand why people think Luongo's contract is like a time bomb.
If they don't trade him by season's end the Canucks are done.

I understand that they'll lose depth, but they are losing that depth one way or another. That's how teams operate in the Cap system. The important thing is that they get value back for pieces they don't need; in this case that would be Luongo. Getting rid of him too soon for too little is a wrong move on their part.

I'd love for us to get Luongo if all we have to give up is Bozak. But it seems impossible to me that a smart GM would decide that's a good move at this point in the season.

edit: to clarify, if we have to give up Kardi, Gardiner or a 1st, I'd rather stay away from Luongo. He might be what fans wants, but he's not what the team needs.

 

[p.l.f.]

Gardiner should not be in discussions for anyone less than a 1C coming back. Lolongo and his contact will do more harm.

i can see this

 

[Rockinz]

actually, 5.3 is pretty cheap for a top goalie.

he WAS a top goalie...

now he is a backup on the nucks

3 years of Lu is fine if MLSE is ready to use an amnesty buyout after 3 years.

This way we get him till he is 37 and no repercussions of his contract.

 

[Liferleafer]

he WAS a top goalie...

now he is a backup on the nucks

3 years of Lu is fine if MLSE is ready to use an amnesty buyout after 3 years.

This way we get him till he is 37 and no repercussions of his contract.

Pretty sure there won't be an amnesty in 3 years. Has to be in the next 2.

 

[iArts]

Why is everybody so sure that Lu only has 2-3 more good years left?

Brodeur was great for a while. Kiprusoff is still very good. The list goes on and on.
Not to mention that who cares if he doesn't pan out and we have to buy him out? We are the richest ****ing team in the world, for ****s sake.

 

[Roboholic]

Many reports have claimed the deal is done and will happen as soon as the CBA is approved by the NHLPA.

I personally don't buy it, but if true, when could the trade be announced? Saturday morning at some point? Once the players have finished voting?

Has anyone read anything regarding when GM's can start making moves?

 

[masarume]

Pretty sure there won't be an amnesty in 3 years. Has to be in the next 2.

Where did you hear this? I'm not being confrontational; more curious.

I assumed the amnesty would be similar to the NBA. I believed theirs is essentially applicable to any contract signed before the lockout. If you choose to hold on to it, the longer you wait, the less contracts there will be available to the team TO amnesty as they all eventually expire.

 

[topched]

Where did you hear this? I'm not being confrontational; more curious.

I assumed the amnesty would be similar to the NBA. I believed theirs is essentially applicable to any contract signed before the lockout. If you choose to hold on to it, the longer you wait, the less contracts there will be available to the team TO amnesty as they all eventually expire.

Its been widely reported. The new CBA includes 2 amnesty clauses to be used at the end of the 2013 season and the end of the 13/14' season.

A google search will give you confirmation.

 

[satyr9]

Where did you hear this? I'm not being confrontational; more curious.

I assumed the amnesty would be similar to the NBA. I believed theirs is essentially applicable to any contract signed before the lockout. If you choose to hold on to it, the longer you wait, the less contracts there will be available to the team TO amnesty as they all eventually expire.

Mess had a link at one point, one next year, one the year after, not like the NBA amnesty at all. At least I think I remember that right.

 

[p.l.f.]

According to Adrian Dater of the Denver Post, hockey analyst and former NHL player Enrico Ciccone of TVA Sports, and confirmed by TSN's James Duthie on Twitter, the Philadelphia Flyers are interested in acquiring the services of the veteran goaltender.

Duthie tweeted that the Flyers have inquired about the Canucks goalie, and are in a position where they could buy out current netminder Ilya Bryzgalov in June.

On Thursday, Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren shot down the rumours.

"That made me chuckle," Holmgren told the Daily News. "It's safe to say those rumours aren't true. They have no basis or merit."