Confirmed Trade: [VAN/CGY] Elias Lindholm for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond. 2024 4th

[bringbacktheskate604]

To be fair, I've only viewed EP2 in the WJHC. I'm guessing that's the only place you've watched him too. He didn't defend well at all at that tournament. He doesn't produce offense. He was kind of physical, but not overly. What else is there to look at besides actual production? He hasn't ever really produced and was a bit of a reach where you guys took him.


No he didn't. He was very poor at the WJHC. By far Sweden's worst defenseman.

Wow he was not anything like you described and was playing so well he got promoted and led all swedish dmen in ice-time. It's odd because I've caught you twice now making shit up. The first one was you lied about what you claimed Lindholm was worth.

Now your shitting on a prospect you specifically wanted to be included in a deal for Lindholm. Seems odd that you would specifically want a player in a deal for your best trade chip and then once the deal is done and he wasn't included you blatantly make shit up to make the guy you got look like the better prospect.

Is winning a trade that important that you would make shit up?

Go and read the GDT from the swedish games from the tourny, all you will see are positive posts about him.
A dman who led d in ice-time at least until the semi not sure about the final was the 2nd last dman on the team to have a goal scored against, Willander was the first and was always on the ice in crucial defensive moments.

Be better dude.

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/vancouver-canucks/analysis/vancouver-canucks-top-10-prospects-january-2024-edition

This is from what is the 2nd most respected prospect news site. It's from January. Saying Raty and EP2 are even in the same league is just silly.

I don't care about what others think, that same site also gushed over the kings prospect pool and predicted the leafs were going to be a dynasty 5 years ago.

And like Ive said in several posts, EP is a guy that fits what we will need going forward like Raty and Podz. I never said they were equal talent wise.
It's the reason in our interaction before the trade I said Brew was the guy I hoped was the one traded.
Unlike you I don't need to make things up or bring up prospect rankings even tho they added nothing to do with the point I was making.

 

[sting101]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/vancouver-canucks/analysis/vancouver-canucks-top-10-prospects-january-2024-edition

This is from what is the 2nd most respected prospect news site. It's from January. Saying Raty and EP2 are even in the same league is just silly.

I'm sorry man but that list is brutal. Ty Young at honourable mention pretty much says it all. he's not even the Cougars best goalie this year. Nobody who is respected on our site and puts in time watching our prospects has him that high. Tristen Nielson is at best a AAA AHL player. He's not in my top 10 nor many others. He says Klimovich is projected as a btm 6 winger when it's pretty much top6 or bust as he's dynamic and toolsy with a wicked shot and hands but has poor defensive reads and puck management.

Where he has Kudraytsev and Brzustewicz just screams of stat watching. The writer is from Vancouver and it makes sense.

Where the F is Raty? Where is McWard? I get that he graduated Podkolzin. This is from January and many agreed

• https://forums.hfboards.com/threads/the-2023-2024-prospects-thread-pt-2.2943577/post-193261176
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• #822

Now that it's 2024 and we're half way (sort of) thought i would elicit some discussion regarding top10 Canuck prospects. This is my current list after watching the U20s

1 - Jonathon Lekkerimaki - 1st line RW PP1
2 - Tom Willander - top4 RD PK1
3 - Aatu Raty - 3C 3LW
4 - Elias Pettersson - 3/2LD PK1
5 - Vasily Podkolzin - 3/4W
6 - Arshdeep Bains - 3/4LW
7 - Hunter Brzustewicz - 3/4RD PP2
8 - Arturs Silovs - GK2
9 - Cole McWard - 3/4RD
10 - Sawyer Mynio - 3/4LD

Dropped Klimovich due to injury and a poor pre season.
Willander could very easily be 1 but i need to see some offensive progression and my list is upside shown not asset value related

Reactions:bh53, Bitz and Bites, alternate and 4 others

 

[Double Dion]

Wow he was not anything like you described and was playing so well he got promoted and led all swedish dmen in ice-time. It's odd because I've caught you twice now making shit up. The first one was you lied about what you claimed Lindholm was worth.

Now your shitting on a prospect you specifically wanted to be included in a deal for Lindholm. Seems odd that you would specifically want a player in a deal for your best trade chip and then once the deal is done and he wasn't included you blatantly make shit up to make the guy you got look like the better prospect.

Is winning a trade that important that you would make shit up?

Go and read the GDT from the swedish games from the tourny, all you will see are positive posts about him.
A dman who led d in ice-time at least until the semi not sure about the final was the 2nd last dman on the team to have a goal scored against, Willander was the first and was always on the ice in crucial defensive moments.

Be better dude.

What a ridiculous post. Dude was -2 in the tournament got walked twice directly leading to goals and didn't put up any offense. Yes he was excellent.

You aren't quoting me correctly at all. HB was the prospect I wanted. I wanted either a 2nd OR EP2 added to the deal. He was never the main component. Post the quote, don't invent me saying something I never did.

I'm sorry man but that list is brutal. Ty Young at honourable mention pretty much says it all. he's not even the Cougars best goalie this year. Nobody who is respected on our site and puts in time watching our prospects has him that high. Tristen Nielson is at best a AAA AHL player. He's not in my top 10 nor many others. He says Klimovich is projected as a btm 6 winger when it's pretty much top6 or bust as he's dynamic and toolsy with a wicked shot and hands but has poor defensive reads and puck management.

Where he has Kudraytsev and Brzustewicz just screams of stat watching. The writer is from Vancouver and it makes sense.

Where the F is Raty? Where is McWard? I get that he graduated Podkolzin. This is from January and many agreed

• Prospect Info: - The 2023-2024 Prospects Thread Pt. 2
• Add bookmark
• #822

Now that it's 2024 and we're half way (sort of) thought i would elicit some discussion regarding top10 Canuck prospects. This is my current list after watching the U20s

1 - Jonathon Lekkerimaki - 1st line RW PP1
2 - Tom Willander - top4 RD PK1
3 - Aatu Raty - 3C 3LW
4 - Elias Pettersson - 3/2LD PK1
5 - Vasily Podkolzin - 3/4W
6 - Arshdeep Bains - 3/4LW
7 - Hunter Brzustewicz - 3/4RD PP2
8 - Arturs Silovs - GK2
9 - Cole McWard - 3/4RD
10 - Sawyer Mynio - 3/4LD

Dropped Klimovich due to injury and a poor pre season.
Willander could very easily be 1 but i need to see some offensive progression and my list is upside shown not asset value related
View attachment 814839
Reactions:bh53, Bitz and Bites, alternate and 4 others

That's a preseason list dude. Talk about disingenuous. Based on the posters in this thread I wouldn't trust this group of posters to tell me what color the sky is.

 

[sting101]

That's a preseason list dude. Talk about disingenuous. Based on the posters in this thread I wouldn't trust this group of posters to tell me what color the sky is.

Nah it's from a month ago.

Hope he works out but your just kidding yourself if you think he's ahead of the players mentioned who have done more and have more pro ready bodies and skills. Most realized even with his junior stats that he was a project.

 

[Double Dion]

Nah it's from a month ago.

Hope he works out but your just kidding yourself if you think he's ahead of the players mentioned who have done more and have more pro ready bodies and skills. Most realized even with his junior stats that he was a project.

Oh, so October 2023 is a month ago? You realize it shows when the thread was made right?

 

[ohnoeszz]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/vancouver-canucks/analysis/vancouver-canucks-top-10-prospects-january-2024-edition

This is from what is the 2nd most respected prospect news site. It's from January. Saying Raty and EP2 are even in the same league is just silly.

I'm sorry man but that list is brutal....

That's a preseason list dude. Talk about disingenuous. Based on the posters in this thread I wouldn't trust this group of posters to tell me what color the sky is.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/vancouver-canucks/analysis/vancouver-canucks-top-10-prospects-january-2024-edition

This is from what is the 2nd most respected prospect news site. It's from January. Saying Raty and EP2 are even in the same league is just silly.

Yeah. Silly to think the #3 and #5 prospects are in the same league lol. If you actually read what they said about EP it doesn't line up at all with anything you've written about him:

"Elias Pettersson, or D-Petey as he is known in Vancouver, is having a solid campaign in Sweden. Not only is he playing a pivotal role for Västerås IK, but he has been one of Sweden's most important defenders at this year's World Juniors. Whether it is throwing big hits or clearing the front of the net, he plays a physical game and understands how to use his size to his advantage. "

 

[Double Dion]

Yeah. Silly to think the #3 and #5 prospects are in the same league lol. If you actually read what they said about EP it doesn't line up at all with anything you've written about him:

"Elias Pettersson, or D-Petey as he is known in Vancouver, is having a solid campaign in Sweden. Not only is he playing a pivotal role for Västerås IK, but he has been one of Sweden's most important defenders at this year's World Juniors. Whether it is throwing big hits or clearing the front of the net, he plays a physical game and understands how to use his size to his advantage. "

This is the same fanbase that predicted Kuzmenko hitting 40 goals this year despite everyone else saying 27% is unsustainable. I said he had a bad tournament. He did. He was -2 playing for Sweden. He got walked multiple times. It's REALLY hard being -2 playing for Sweden. I haven't watched his games in Sweden. Brzustewicz is the frontrunner for the Red Tilson award in his D+1 season. They aren't comparable.

 

[Bond]

I'm so glad that others see what I see in regards to our prospects. Podz, Raty, and EP2 are not only better prospects imo, they are far more important now that are window is open.

This is why it is a win/win. Flames took a gamble on a player that broke out while the Canucks kept the prospects that fit their timeline better. I think Podkolzin and Raty top out as middle six guys if they make it and the Flames don’t need more middle six guys in the near future.
Don’t have much of an opinion on EP2 but if he projects more as a 4/6 guy then still like the swing by the Flames.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Flames already Killing Bruzstewic's development. He is now pointless in his last 5 games.

Kidding aside tho, im not sure what's going on with Bruz all of a sudden. I dont think he went 2 games without a point all season long.

He did miss a game on Jan 27th for " personal reason".... Hope all is well for him outside of hockey.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

This is the same fanbase that predicted Kuzmenko hitting 40 goals this year despite everyone else saying 27% is unsustainable. I said he had a bad tournament. He did. He was -2 playing for Sweden. He got walked multiple times. It's REALLY hard being -2 playing for Sweden. I haven't watched his games in Sweden. Brzustewicz is the frontrunner for the Red Tilson award in his D+1 season. They aren't comparable.

Did I mention Kuzmenko in my post? You provided a link to one of your favorite prospect sites, who have nothing but positive things to say about EP. Including wjc game reviews. You don't have to shit on EP for Hunter B to be a good prospect. They aren't comparable, you're right in one way, Hunter is way more boom or bust. Reminds me a lot Derrick Pouliot in his 19 year old season with Portland. Maybe nhl speed won't be too much for him like it was for Pouliot....maybe.

 

[Double Dion]

Did I mention Kuzmenko in my post? You provided a link to one of your favorite prospect sites, who have nothing but positive things to say about EP. Including wjc game reviews. You don't have to shit on EP for Hunter B to be a good prospect. They aren't comparable, you're right in one way, Hunter is way more boom or bust. Reminds me a lot Derrick Pouliot in his 19 year old season with Portland. Maybe nhl speed won't be too much for him like it was for Pouliot....maybe.

I'm not crapping on EP. I'm saying he struggled defensively and that's supposed to be his calling card at the WJHC. I considered EP their 5th best prospect. For me, Lekkerimaki, Willander, Brzustewicz, Podkolzin, EP2. In that order. I do think Lekkerimaki and Willander are close. I don't think any of the other ones are even close.

 

[UrbanImpact]

I'm not crapping on EP. I'm saying he struggled defensively and that's supposed to be his calling card at the WJHC. I considered EP their 5th best prospect. For me, Lekkerimaki, Willander, Brzustewicz, Podkolzin, EP2. In that order. I do think Lekkerimaki and Willander are close. I don't think any of the other ones are even close.

You think EP struggled defensively in the world jrs? we must have been watching 2 different tournaments then.

Are you thinking of ASP?

EP was one of the anchors of that Defence, and played a textbook shutdown and physical role. Huge on the penalty kill as well. Of course he was on some goals against but he played like 20+min a night and wasnt sheltered at all much like ASP was.

 

[Double Dion]

You think EP struggled defensively in the world jrs? we must have been watching 2 different tournaments then.

Are you thinking of ASP?

EP was one of the anchors of that Defence, and played a textbook shutdown and physical role. Huge on the penalty kill as well. Of course he was on some goals against but he played like 20+min a night and wasnt sheltered at all much like ASP was.

I'm not saying EP2 sucks. I'm saying I watched him get walked twice. You can youtube it and watch for yourself. I'm saying comparisons to Ohlund are ridiculous. People forget Ohlund was a top pairing defenseman for a decade plus. I think EP2 plays, but a bottom pairing role. He's physical, but he's not Ohlund physical. He skates well in straight lines, but he doesn't have the first step and close Ohlund did. He got walked almost as many times as Ohlund would in full seasons in that tournament.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Interesting to listen to Seravalli's podcast.

Apparently Boston really really wanted Lindholm but only if Lindholm was willing to extend long term. Calgary may have been asking Lindholm about this to open up more suitors and Lindholm may have said no he is not interested in extending with anyone at this time.

Rangers and Avs were apparently really in on the Lindholm sweepstakes as well.

Sounds like Calgary really targeted and preferred Hunter Bruz over any other prospects available.

 

[Double Dion]

Interesting to listen to Seravalli's podcast.

Apparently Boston really really wanted Lindholm but only if Lindholm was willing to extend long term. Calgary may have been asking Lindholm about this to open up more suitors and Lindholm may have said no he is not interested in extending with anyone at this time.

Rangers and Avs were apparently really in on the Lindholm sweepstakes as well.

Sounds like Calgary really targeted and preferred Hunter Bruz over any other prospects available.

Of course. Brzustewicz is a high end prospect. Better than anyone Boston has. I had it as a coin flip between him and Ritchie for the Avs.

 

[UrbanImpact]

I'm not saying EP2 sucks. I'm saying I watched him get walked twice. You can youtube it and watch for yourself. I'm saying comparisons to Ohlund are ridiculous. People forget Ohlund was a top pairing defenseman for a decade plus. I think EP2 plays, but a bottom pairing role. He's physical, but he's not Ohlund physical. He skates well in straight lines, but he doesn't have the first step and close Ohlund did. He got walked almost as many times as Ohlund would in full seasons in that tournament.

lmao, why are you comparing 19 yr old EP to Prime Ohlund.

Bruz and Pettersson are 100% on same tier of prospects when they were both with Canucks.

Lekki, Willander, Hoglander - 1st tier
Podkolzin- 2nd tier
Bruz, Bains, Pettersson, Solivs 3rd tier

Thats how Canuck prospects were viewed as and rightfully so.

 

[Double Dion]

lmao, why are you comparing 19 yr old EP to Prime Ohlund.

Bruz and Pettersson are 100% on same tier of prospects when they were both with Canucks.

Lekki, Willander, Hoglander - 1st tier
Podkolzin- 2nd tier
Bruz, Bains, Pettersson, Solivs 3rd tier

Thats how Canuck prospects were viewed as and rightfully so.

Hoglander isn't a prospect.

Multiple Canucks fans compared him to Ohlund. I have Brzustewicz way ahead of everyone except Lekkerimaki and Willander. His ceiling is probably higher than even those guys, just a lower floor.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Hoglander isn't a prospect.

Multiple Canucks fans compared him to Ohlund. I have Brzustewicz way ahead of everyone except Lekkerimaki and Willander. His ceiling is probably higher than even those guys, just a lower floor.

Offensive defencemen prospects are hard to gauge. Canucks most recent prospect with similar upside was Rathbone, and we saw how that went (not saying Brew is the same, just that offensive dmen can easily bust).

Canucks’ prospects in terms of value to our roster, would have Willander, Lekkerimaki, and Pettersson ahead of Brew. Raty and Silovs are debatable. Brew wouldn’t be put in a position to succeed here with Hughes and Hronek getting all the offensive zone starts and PP time.

 

[Raistlin]

you base your whole evaluation of EP2 on the two times he was walked? he is a highly valued prospect that had a very good tournament. We are real people that was also watching, far more than just that game.

lol, why is this jabroni arguing with our whole fanbase where Brzu rank amoung our prospects? if you stat watch, you will value him above Willander. if you actually look at them play, Brzu falls out of the top 5. Long story short, hes has too many question marks to value him higher. AND this is a rank of a canucks propsect in canucks' system right? he plays a very redundant role with 43 here. that is also why cooler heads prevails when viewing this propsect and fans are not blinded by the gaudy numbers right away. Just take a breath and watch him play for half a year, you'll recognise what all of us are saying and realize you're just being antagonistic.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Two things can be true.. The Canucks had Brzu outside of their top 5, and that Calgary had him as their clearcut #3.

Separate organizations can value different things, and for multiple reasons.

 

[EquivalentStay]

Hoglander isn't a prospect.

Multiple Canucks fans compared him to Ohlund. I have Brzustewicz way ahead of everyone except Lekkerimaki and Willander. His ceiling is probably higher than even those guys, just a lower floor.

Nonsense, this is all nonsense

 

[Double Dion]

Two things can be true.. The Canucks had Brzu outside of their top 5, and that Calgary had him as their clearcut #3.

Separate organizations can value different things, and for multiple reasons.

The two things aren't true at the same time. Brzustewicz is a much better prospect.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Weird argument..

But anyway outside of Jonathon Lekkerimaki and Tom Willander, Hunter Brzustewicz would have been my pick (and I suspect most Flames fans pick) to have "taken" from Vancouver.

A lot of speculation at the time was one of Raty or Pod would be coming back and the consensus on Flames boards was Brzustewicz would be the preferred guy over them at the time.

Hoglander nobody figured was available.