Confirmed Trade: [VAN/CGY] Elias Lindholm for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond. 2024 4th

[Ita]

People need to stop calling Garland a cap dump. He has been very effective this year. The only players who are underperforming relative to their cap hits on the team are Mikheyev and Myers.

 

[Raistlin]

If the Canucks value Raty and EP2 more than Brzustewicz their front office are idiots. Since their front office aren't idiots it's likely they had to give up Bru to get the player they wanted. I could see a world where they value Podkolzin more highly based on their timeline. But if they valued Raty and EP2 more then they are dumb.

Depends on what you value. Seems to me you prefer boom/bust prospects. Raty and Ep2 are both prospects that has high floors, their ceiling is not as high as HB, but HB has a 50/50 chance to not be able to translate his game to the NHL. EP2 has advanced size, snarl and defensive conscience he showcased in the WJC, he is earmarked for at least a 3rd pair role in a couple years. Raty is a bottom 6C that lacks speed. He is arguably higher in the depth chart depending on who you ask.

 

[Three On Zero]

If the Canucks value Raty and EP2 more than Brzustewicz their front office are idiots. Since their front office aren't idiots it's likely they had to give up Bru to get the player they wanted. I could see a world where they value Podkolzin more highly based on their timeline. But if they valued Raty and EP2 more then they are dumb.

Raty no, EP2 is a complete different defenceman than Brz. EP2 is more defensive orientated

Brz has a long road to make the team based on what he provides

 

[Double Dion]

Raty no, EP2 is a complete different defenceman than Brz. EP2 is more defensive orientated

Brz has a long road to make the team based on what he provides

Good prospects in Sweden in their draft +2 seasons are playing in the SHL. He's presently been demoted to the 3rd best swedish league and isn't really doing anything impressive even there. He's not very good. Brz might be in the league for 10 games next season. The fact that we are even having this conversation shows how little you understand the euro leagues. Raty is a better prospect than EP2.

 

[Petey O]

People need to stop calling Garland a cap dump. He has been very effective this year. The only players who are underperforming relative to their cap hits on the team are Mikheyev and Myers.

Some people just don't watch players and make judgements on them. It's really dumb. Sometimes it's okay to just not post or admit you aren't too familiar with the player.

 

[Double Dion]

Depends on what you value. Seems to me you prefer boom/bust prospects. Raty and Ep2 are both prospects that has high floors, their ceiling is not as high as HB, but HB has a 50/50 chance to not be able to translate his game to the NHL. EP2 has advanced size, snarl and defensive conscience he showcased in the WJC, he is earmarked for at least a 3rd pair role in a couple years. Raty is a bottom 6C that lacks speed. He is arguably higher in the depth chart depending on who you ask.

I don't think EP2 is going to play. He's just ok in the 3rd best Swedish league right now. I'd be stunned if Brz doesn't play. It would be more surprising to me than him being an all-star.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

Happy Birthday Kuzmenko!

But a reminder that Kuzmenko is only 14 months younger than Lindholm. Lindholm is about as likely/unlikely to bounce back to his best form as Kuzmenko is.

 

[Double Dion]

Happy Birthday Kuzmenko!

But a reminder that Kuzmenko is only 14 months younger than Lindholm. Lindholm is about as likely/unlikely to bounce back to his best form as Kuzmenko is.

View attachment 814744
View attachment 814745

Lindholm was shooting 6%. Kuzmenko was shooting over 27%. It's almost guaranteed Kuzmenko will never score like that again. It's almost guaranteed Lindholm will score more.

 

[Three On Zero]

Good prospects in Sweden in their draft +2 seasons are playing in the SHL. He's presently been demoted to the 3rd best swedish league and isn't really doing anything impressive even there. He's not very good. Brz might be in the league for 10 games next season. The fact that we are even having this conversation shows how little you understand the euro leagues. Raty is a better prospect than EP2.

That’s quite the hot take LOL

 

[Phrasing]

I don't think EP2 is going to play. He's just ok in the 3rd best Swedish league right now. I'd be stunned if Brz doesn't play. It would be more surprising to me than him being an all-star.

This smells of state watching. I’ve seen both. You’re selling EP2 low and Brz high. Go visit the Canucks forum and look up historic posts on both or ask other people who have watched both. Most. Fans are really high on EP2, some more than Brz.

 

[Three On Zero]

This smells of state watching. I’ve seen both. You’re selling EP2 low and Brz high. Go visit the Canucks forum and look up historic posts on both or ask other people who have watched both. Most. Fans are really high on EP2, some more than Brz.

Not to mention EP2 looked fantastic at the world jrs.

 

[Double Dion]

This smells of state watching. I’ve seen both. You’re selling EP2 low and Brz high. Go visit the Canucks forum and look up historic posts on both or ask other people who have watched both. Most. Fans are really high on EP2, some more than Brz.

To be fair, I've only viewed EP2 in the WJHC. I'm guessing that's the only place you've watched him too. He didn't defend well at all at that tournament. He doesn't produce offense. He was kind of physical, but not overly. What else is there to look at besides actual production? He hasn't ever really produced and was a bit of a reach where you guys took him.

Not to mention EP2 looked fantastic at the world jrs.

No he didn't. He was very poor at the WJHC. By far Sweden's worst defenseman.

 

[Donner]

Pretty good return for Calgary. Lindholm, seemingly like many players on that roster, wanted out of Calgary. So to get a 1st, solid roster player and solid prospects is a good deal given the circumstances

Kuz seems like a one year wonder though. Shot 28%. Could be like Kubalik. Great first year due to high shooting % and meh after that

 

[Double Dion]

Pretty good return for Calgary. Lindholm, seemingly like many players on that roster, wanted out of Calgary. So to get a 1st, solid roster player and solid prospects is a good deal given the circumstances

Kuz seems like a one year wonder though. Shot 28%. Could be like Kubalik. Great first year due to high shooting % and meh after that

That's a really good comparable. If we get 20-25 goals out of him with his defensive deficiencies and can flip him for a 2nd or 3rd next year I'd call that the high mark. Could go worse than that too.

 

[Jay26]

If the Canucks value Raty and EP2 more than Brzustewicz their front office are idiots. Since their front office aren't idiots it's likely they had to give up Bru to get the player they wanted. I could see a world where they value Podkolzin more highly based on their timeline. But if they valued Raty and EP2 more then they are dumb.

I've said this before: I don't think it's really about which prospect has more value. It's about what prospect the Canucks could afford to give up. As good as Brew is - and he's a very good prospect - the Canucks could afford to trade him given they already have the absolute best in the league in terms of his skillset in Quinn Hughes. It also has to do with the timeline, as you mentioned. Brew is probably a more long term guy than someone like Willander, or certainly Podkolzin.

 

[strattonius]

If the Canucks value Raty and EP2 more than Brzustewicz their front office are idiots. Since their front office aren't idiots it's likely they had to give up Bru to get the player they wanted. I could see a world where they value Podkolzin more highly based on their timeline. But if they valued Raty and EP2 more then they are dumb.

EP2 looks like a better prospect and most the Canuck board would agree with that. You can run around calling people idiots all you want but we have EP2 ranked higher. He has a big frame, plays very solid positioning and because of this he has a more transferable skillset to make the NHL. Both prospects have catapulted up the ranks since being drafted.

 

[Hoglander]

Dion has said that Brzu defends like Tanev. If Brzu was producing like he is, and was as good as Tanev defensively, he'd be arguably the best prospect in all of hockey.

So either you believe that the people that managed the U.S. junior team are idiots for leaving out the worlds' top prospect, and that the Canucks had no idea how good their prospect was and threw him in a deal for a rental... or you can use your eyes/ brain and see that this player has warts that are likely to hamper his ability to translate his game, like:

Below average NHL size for a dman.
Underwhelming speed and acceleration.
Doesn't have a big point shot.
Underwhelming physicality/compete level.

His only real translateable skill is that he's a very good puck-mover. You need that in order to be a high end dman, which is why there is potential, but the overall package is lacking. He also has his stats inflated by teammates that are scoring at insane rates, like Juolevi had at the Wjc's.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I don't think EP2 is going to play. He's just ok in the 3rd best Swedish league right now. I'd be stunned if Brz doesn't play. It would be more surprising to me than him being an all-star.

Is that a typing error or something?? If not please go ahead and tell me what the 2cnd best Swedish league is.
EP was loaned to the allsvenskan because he wasn't playing much on a good SHL team. There's a whole shitload of decent young prospects in the SHL that would better off in just about any other league. Rather than playing 2-6 mins a night in the SHL. They might even be better off in Sweden's 3rd best league, whatever the hell that is.

 

[Phrasing]

To be fair, I've only viewed EP2 in the WJHC. I'm guessing that's the only place you've watched him too. He didn't defend well at all at that tournament. He doesn't produce offense. He was kind of physical, but not overly. What else is there to look at besides actual production? He hasn't ever really produced and was a bit of a reach where you guys took him.


No he didn't. He was very poor at the WJHC. By far Sweden's worst defenseman.

Assumptions are the mother of all mistakes

 

[Szechwan]

To be fair, I've only viewed EP2 in the WJHC. I'm guessing that's the only place you've watched him too. He didn't defend well at all at that tournament. He doesn't produce offense. He was kind of physical, but not overly. What else is there to look at besides actual production? He hasn't ever really produced and was a bit of a reach where you guys took him.


No he didn't. He was very poor at the WJHC. By far Sweden's worst defenseman.

Yikes. Pretty much every analyst thought EP2 had a great tourny. You are on an island here

 

[andora]

Yikes. Pretty much every analyst thought EP2 had a great tourny. You are on an island here

Dont make him double down

 

[sting101]

This smells of state watching. I’ve seen both. You’re selling EP2 low and Brz high. Go visit the Canucks forum and look up historic posts on both or ask other people who have watched both. Most. Fans are really high on EP2, some more than Brz.

Exactly it's kinda funny a Flames fan trying to tell us who's dumb ranking Raty Podkolzin and EP2 above a kid lighting up a junior league. Even Sawyer Mynio is having a better year at 18 than Hunter did at the same age. It's obviously impressive and a good sign he's putting up these numbers but James Wisniewski put up the same numbers and Anthony DeAngelo did better and took 3 teams before he could be a useful PP player and still sucks at defending. I watched DeAngelo in SSmarie and he was a more dynamic skater and had a harder shot. Many of us watched HB at Canuck camps and had concerns and team USA had enough concerns he couldn't crack the U20 roster.

Raty for example put up a more impressive PPG in Liiga at 19 and was drafted higher. He's being groomed as a 3C has good size a heavy shot and excellent positioning his skating became an issue when compared with NHLers and he's working at that. Bzustewicz will have these same adjustments its naive to not think so

Podkolzin and EP2 are just so much farther ahead in their physical developments. EP2 had 22 pts in his last 18 junior aged games and has been an anchor on Swedens national sides. He's born the same year as HB and almost nobody who watched these 2 play at our camps had Hunter pegged as a better prospect. Podkolzin mentally needed a reset and he's getting it he will be a valuable middle six player.

I've had these arguments with many teams fans regarding WHL players i watch regularly. It's such a massive step and pro players are so much stronger and faster. Josh Brook was a player Habs fans were drooling over with his 75pts in 59 games as a 19yr old. I cautioned them and they thought i didn't know what i was talking about....Where is he now? Hunter is better IMO but he's on a team with a lot of support and has much to prove don't act like you know more than the Canuck scouts do or even the fans.

Brzustewisc has excellent potential nobody is denying that. Slow cook him and you could have a good one but he's a project wasn't even one of our top5 prospects. These are the facts

 

[bringbacktheskate604]

Exactly it's kinda funny a Flames fan trying to tell us who's dumb ranking Raty Podkolzin and EP2 above a kid lighting up a junior league. Even Sawyer Mynio is having a better year at 18 than Hunter did at the same age. It's obviously impressive and a good sign he's putting up these numbers but James Wisniewski put up the same numbers and Anthony DeAngelo did better and took 3 teams before he could be a useful PP player and still sucks at defending. I watched DeAngelo in SSmarie and he was a more dynamic skater and had a harder shot. Many of us watched HB at Canuck camps and had concerns and team USA had enough concerns he couldn't crack the U20 roster.

Raty for example put up a more impressive PPG in Liiga at 19 and was drafted higher. He's being groomed as a 3C has good size a heavy shot and excellent positioning his skating became an issue when compared with NHLers and he's working at that. Bzustewicz will have these same adjustments its naive to not think so

Podkolzin and EP2 are just so much farther ahead in their physical developments. EP2 had 22 pts in his last 18 junior aged games and has been an anchor on Swedens national sides. He's born the same year as HB and almost nobody who watched these 2 play at our camps had Hunter pegged as a better prospect. Podkolzin mentally needed a reset and he's getting it he will be a valuable middle six player.

I've had these arguments with many teams fans regarding WHL players i watch regularly. It's such a massive step and pro players are so much stronger and faster. Josh Brook was a player Habs fans were drooling over with his 75pts in 59 games as a 19yr old. I cautioned them and they thought i didn't know what i was talking about....Where is he now? Hunter is better IMO but he's on a team with a lot of support and has much to prove don't act like you know more than the Canuck scouts do or even the fans.

Brzustewisc has excellent potential nobody is denying that. Slow cook him and you could have a good one but he's a project wasn't even one of our top5 prospects. These are the facts

I'm so glad that others see what I see in regards to our prospects. Podz, Raty, and EP2 are not only better prospects imo, they are far more important now that are window is open. Every Abby game I've watched I'm left impressed with those two. Podz is a fuc*ing bull who is finally getting the type of minutes he pretty much hadn't gotten since he was drafted.
The second he came over he should have been in the AHL but Utica was a mess. I've been pumping his tires and fighting with George leafer since we drafted him lol. I honestly think he's gonna be a huge part of our team.

Raty, gets shit on for his skating but it looks like he's been making strides (pun intended) lol. The rest of his game tho pretty much locks him as at least a 3c. He's a lot more cerebral than I thought and he's impressed me at both sides of the ice. He could be on our pp2 right now.
EP2 has size, skates real well, is physical, reminds me of Ohlund.
I hope Brew turns in to a solid piece for the flames he seems like a nice kid but fit wise plus timeline, he was the most expendable of the bunch. Seems like both teams got their guy.

Edit. Sorry non nuck fans, thought this thread was from our forum.

 

[DFAC]

It's sad to see Hunter get traded away but I think having Hughes and Willander made him a bit redudant. It was always going to be difficult for an offensive dman to get any PP time in Vancouver so the Canucks did well by trading from a position of strength.

Also getting Kuz's $5.5m off the books next year is huge moving forward - we'll see if Kuz can bounce back. If he can - the Flames can probably trade him for a decent haul at next year's deadline.

Could turn out to be a rare win-win trade.

 

[Double Dion]

I'm so glad that others see what I see in regards to our prospects. Podz, Raty, and EP2 are not only better prospects imo, they are far more important now that are window is open. Every Abby game I've watched I'm left impressed with those two. Podz is a fuc*ing bull who is finally getting the type of minutes he pretty much hadn't gotten since he was drafted.
The second he came over he should have been in the AHL but Utica was a mess. I've been pumping his tires and fighting with George leafer since we drafted him lol. I honestly think he's gonna be a huge part of our team.

Raty, gets shit on for his skating but it looks like he's been making strides (pun intended) lol. The rest of his game tho pretty much locks him as at least a 3c. He's a lot more cerebral than I thought and he's impressed me at both sides of the ice. He could be on our pp2 right now.
EP2 has size, skates real well, is physical, reminds me of Ohlund.
I hope Brew turns in to a solid piece for the flames he seems like a nice kid but fit wise plus timeline, he was the most expendable of the bunch. Seems like both teams got their guy.

Edit. Sorry non nuck fans, thought this thread was from our forum.

https://thehockeynews.com/nhl/vancouver-canucks/analysis/vancouver-canucks-top-10-prospects-january-2024-edition

This is from what is the 2nd most respected prospect news site. It's from January. Saying Raty and EP2 are even in the same league is just silly.