Salary Cap: Value of nylanders next contract

  • PLEASE check any bookmark on all devices. IF you see a link pointing to mandatory.com DELETE it Please use this URL https://forums.hfboards.com/

ULF_55

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
86,282
17,943
Mountain Standard Ti
Visit site
Again though, in your scenario, the cap is rising more than your noted expenses. How is having more money than we have now to supplement those players going to drop us from top-tier to non-playoff? If we can do it now, why is doing it in 2 years impossible?

We should have some prospects filling some roles by then, and Dubas has shown to be really good at targeting quality depth for cheap in UFA, and leveraging his stars and team quality and history to get discounts. It's way too early to be making assumptions about what's going to happen, but there's panic every single year, and we always end up just fine. And it's really only tight for 1 year. And the cap is probably rising more than 4m in 2024.

I only disagree with highlighted, the Leafs have not ended up just fine.
They've ended up failing in each 1st. round of the important season.
Three parts to each year, pre-season, qualification-season, final-season.

Where Dubas has to prove himself is in building a winner, and maybe that involves moving Nylander, even though Nylander has not be the issue in final-season.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bax

notdoneyet

Registered User
Jun 19, 2006
4,342
1,963
Leafland
Again though, in your scenario, the cap is rising more than your noted expenses. How is having more money than we have now to supplement those players going to drop us from top-tier to non-playoff? If we can do it now, why is doing it in 2 years impossible?

We should have some prospects filling some roles by then, and Dubas has shown to be really good at targeting quality depth for cheap in UFA, and leveraging his stars and team quality and history to get discounts. It's way too early to be making assumptions about what's going to happen, but there's panic every single year, and we always end up just fine. And it's really only tight for 1 year. And the cap is probably rising more than 4m in 2024.
With the money we have left of course we can put together a team of minimum salaries but guys like bunting kerfoor engval
Brodie etc are gone to be replaced by more minimum players
This team should never be taking a year iff to regroup
The cap may go up but what if matthews wants 15 and willy wants marner money of 11

This year and next year are the last if the big four
 

Gilmour1996

Registered User
Oct 16, 2022
1,079
1,314
You can't compare him with players that are decent defensively either. Other teams might because they overlook his defensive deficiencies, but they will be in for a surprise when they try him in those situations and see the fly-bys, etc. I'd pay him 8M tops and if he doesn't like it he can go somewhere else.
 

Madap

Registered User
May 24, 2019
969
1,393
Toronto, ON, Canada
The players now have all the leverage. They can pretty much say to Dubas "This is the amount of money I'll stay for. Take it or leave it." And that's the only choice Dubas has. Take it or leave it.

When they were rfa's, DUBAS held all the leverage. "This is how much we're willing to pay you. Take it or leave it. Go play for peanuts in Europe if you like". When that happened, there was a literal online army of people using weird stats to make our players appear better than they really are so that they can rationalize their boy Dubas's overpayments.

If I tried making comparisons to players in Florida or Tenessee, I had thousands of posters SCREAMING at me about taxes. My inbox would be flooded. There were so many posts bellowing about taxes that the entirety of hfboards would usually crash for hours on end if I even thought about making comparisons to cities with no state tax.

And yet here we are in a thread where people are making direct comparisons to players in Florida and Tenessee. Not one PEEP about taxes. Nothing. Because these arguments only exist to push narratives.

In those old threads, proven 20 goal/60 point leaf players were being equated to proven 34/70 point players. Why is THIS no longer happening in reverse? Why are we no longer dismissing lower leaf stats as "less pp time"? Aren't the leafs /60 stats still better than these comparables people are making? WHY HAVE THESE ARGUMENTS DISAPPEARED??????

If Nylander is this good again next year, he will not accept a penny less than 11 mil. I'd be surprised if Matthews takes less than $15. And Marner (who sees himself as Matthews equal) is signing a year later where it is expected the cap to increase quite a bit. So he'll also get around $15, but it will be like 2% less cap percentage.

That's what will happen. You CANNOT just pretend all these arguments you've been making for years no longer apply.
I think you’re overreacting dude. Haven’t all of the big three outplayed their contracts? Marner maybe not but he’s close, and matthews NTC isn’t ideal but cap wise ain’t too bad really.

And I know what you’ll say, at the time they “weren’t worth it”. But maybe you just have to accept that Dubas is able to see their potential better than you and most other fans and knew they would be worth these contracts.

Finally, don’t stress about something that hasn’t happened yet. You have no idea how much they’ll ask for or what they are thinking. Maybe Matthews and Marner don’t want to take us to the woodshed given that they’re older and haven’t won anything. Nylander I can see playing hardball, but he’s also the one that Dubas clearly isn’t afraid of playing hardball right back with.
 

Dekes For Days

Registered User
Sep 24, 2018
20,927
15,735
I only disagree with highlighted, the Leafs have not ended up just fine.
We've been able to fill the roster spots and maintain a top-tier team each year. We've been fine in that regard, and been nowhere close to missing the playoffs (which is what was suggested would happen).
 

Dekes For Days

Registered User
Sep 24, 2018
20,927
15,735
With the money we have left of course we can put together a team of minimum salaries but guys like bunting kerfoor engval
Brodie etc are gone to be replaced by more minimum players
Even if all of them left, that would give us 11.7m for their replacements.
This team should never be taking a year iff to regroup
Every team has ups and downs, but also, it being tight for that one year doesn't mean we can't be competitive that year.
The cap may go up but what if matthews wants 15 and willy wants marner money of 11
Then the cap went up a lot more than we're expecting. It's easy to make up doomsday scenarios, but it's usually best not to panic until you have a reason to.
This year and next year are the last if the big four
Highly unlikely.
 

Dekes For Days

Registered User
Sep 24, 2018
20,927
15,735
Half the teams make the playoffs.
Yes, but half the teams aren't top-tier teams, and given that half the teams make the playoffs, it would be pretty hard for us to go from a top-tier team to missing the playoffs as a result of having 600k more money for the supplementary group than we do now.
 

ULF_55

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
86,282
17,943
Mountain Standard Ti
Visit site
Yes, but half the teams aren't top-tier teams, and given that half the teams make the playoffs, it would be pretty hard for us to go from a top-tier team to missing the playoffs as a result of having 600k more money for the supplementary group than we do now.

Yeah, for the Leafs to miss would take quite a feat.
Leafs just have "bad luck" in the playoffs, or the refs are out to get them, or they get themselves suspended, or ...
Being top-tier doesn't amount to anything in the post-season.
 

Dekes For Days

Registered User
Sep 24, 2018
20,927
15,735
Actually, it doesn't.
All teams start on equal footing, except for home-ice, which doesn't guarantee anything other than 2 home games, but even the worst post-season team has that.
Actually it does. Otherwise, you'd be arguing that team quality has no bearing on outcomes.
 

Antropovsky

Registered User
Jun 2, 2007
14,868
6,486
Why would you even compare a great winger with an underperforming center to make such a conclusion? They are about as related as a cat and dog.
Quality of team, linemates and coaching methods. Playoff performances. Barzal has been a good playoff performer.

Nylander has been Keefes whipping boy, imagine Nylander on a Trotz team?

Barzal has a career .87 ppg while Nylander has .81 ... Despite the slender roster and a defensive minded coach. Meanwhile Nylander who plays in a more offensive minded system and has played with Matthews and Tavares his entire career.

Can't look at players worth isolated from context. Same goes with Marner... Flip these players situation and how many "points" does Barzal get vs Marner. Barzal already has been a much better playoff performer, despite lesser linemates.
 

Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
16,376
11,467
Quality of team, linemates and coaching methods. Playoff performances. Barzal has been a good playoff performer.

Nylander has been Keefes whipping boy, imagine Nylander on a Trotz team?

Barzal has a career .87 ppg while Nylander has .81 ... Despite the slender roster and a defensive minded coach. Meanwhile Nylander who plays in a more offensive minded system and has played with Matthews and Tavares his entire career.

Can't look at players worth isolated from context. Same goes with Marner... Flip these players situation and how many "points" does Barzal get vs Marner. Barzal already has been a much better playoff performer, despite lesser linemates.
Picking Barzal was so random. I mean its almost as though you heard he was good once. Here is a tip...he isn't that good
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
41,872
34,160
St. Paul, MN
The Leafs are actually in a fairly fortunate position with Nylander in terms of recent comparables. Aside from Forsberg and Fiala as direct comparables - guys like Tkachuk, Huberdeau have helped put a likely ceiling on things.

Nylanders asking price is going to in part be set by the open market for 1st line wingers. I don't think there's going to be much mystery here when it comes to his numbers.
 

Yall are crazy

Registered User
Dec 11, 2022
180
129
I expect Pasta to take this contract in Boston.


IMO Nylander will get paid somewhere in 9.5 or 11.

What scares me more is Marner at 12.6 M ,which a lot of posters expect he'll get ... btw the hometown discount included?


The last round of contracts set this up.


Who would've thought the last fancy contract could be used as a baseline for the next one...
They've has astronomical success minus the cup of course. Why did thr cap only go up 1 million when superstars are getting nmore common ans the draft classes with the most superstars are in their prime currently. Like make it make sense nhl.
 

shortfuze

Registered User
Apr 23, 2007
4,594
1,698
toronto
That pretty much describes 93% of the leagues players.

The Leafs have reached the fork in the road they knew was coming as soon as Matthews bent them over for the trap contract.

They need to decide who stays and who they can no longer afford or in reality who doesn't want to stay by asking the moon and stars.

Will gets a 6 year 64m contract, whether it's in Toronto or elsewhere.

Tickets at the ACC would be 800 to 1500 if not for the salary cap.
How did Matthews bend them over?
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
16,267
26,446
Will gets a 6 year 64m contract, whether it's in Toronto or elsewhere.
Gaudreau got 7 x $9.75M for 115 points and leading the league in ES scoring. Where the f*** do you people get this nonsense from? Funny how people like you who used to trash him all the time now think he's going to price himself out of Toronto that badly.
 

therealkoho

Him/Leaf/fan
Jul 10, 2009
17,276
8,439
the Prior
How did Matthews bend them over?
its been discussed ad nauseum, the 5 years put the team in a corner and is not team friendly in any way, thats all about AM. The dollars were excessive for a guy with no scoring titles, no team scoring titles, no playoff success, a whoop dee doo Calder and a Rocket, awards that only matter to the player.

The amount of money he demanded made it virtually impossible to resign Hyman and made negotiations with MM a lot more contentious then they had to be. Imagine that conversation! "hey Mitch yeah we know you've led the team in scoring every year you've been here, yes you're the catalyst for our offence and yes you'd be missed the most if you got hurt. We know you love the team and want to be here so how about 8years and 9m per year, c'mon Mitch how about it!"

Yes I know AM won an MVP, but so what! The Conn Smythe however is so much more important to the team and the fans, because it means success in the thing that matters most.

Serious question was 60 goals more important to AM or the Maple Leafs?
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
75,686
41,665
its been discussed ad nauseum, the 5 years put the team in a corner and is not team friendly in any way, thats all about AM. The dollars were excessive for a guy with no scoring titles, no team scoring titles, no playoff success, a whoop dee doo Calder and a Rocket, awards that only matter to the player.

The amount of money he demanded made it virtually impossible to resign Hyman and made negotiations with MM a lot more contentious then they had to be. Imagine that conversation! "hey Mitch yeah we know you've led the team in scoring every year you've been here, yes you're the catalyst for our offence and yes you'd be missed the most if you got hurt. We know you love the team and want to be here so how about 8years and 9m per year, c'mon Mitch how about it!"

Yes I know AM won an MVP, but so what! The Conn Smythe however is so much more important to the team and the fans, because it means success in the thing that matters most.

Serious question was 60 goals more important to AM or the Maple Leafs?
IMO, that was a mistake by Dubas that he hopefully learnt from. Marner should have always been signed before Matthews to take away that comparable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: therealkoho

shortfuze

Registered User
Apr 23, 2007
4,594
1,698
toronto
its been discussed ad nauseum, the 5 years put the team in a corner and is not team friendly in any way, thats all about AM. The dollars were excessive for a guy with no scoring titles, no team scoring titles, no playoff success, a whoop dee doo Calder and a Rocket, awards that only matter to the player.

The amount of money he demanded made it virtually impossible to resign Hyman and made negotiations with MM a lot more contentious then they had to be. Imagine that conversation! "hey Mitch yeah we know you've led the team in scoring every year you've been here, yes you're the catalyst for our offence and yes you'd be missed the most if you got hurt. We know you love the team and want to be here so how about 8years and 9m per year, c'mon Mitch how about it!"

Yes I know AM won an MVP, but so what! The Conn Smythe however is so much more important to the team and the fans, because it means success in the thing that matters most.

Serious question was 60 goals more important to AM or the Maple Leafs?
If you want to say that he was trying to get as much money as possible, that’s fine but be he admitted that he was seeking an 8 year deal to start. He didn’t handcuff the team by only wanting to sign for 5 years.

*Matthews began seeking an eight-year contract. Talks would often go quiet. A couple of weeks ago a six-hour meeting in Toronto appeared to be the breakthrough in getting the deal done.*


Also, funny to note that Marner and his camp went to Toronto looking for 8 years by 9 million the year before he signed and Toronto turned them down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leafs4Life77

therealkoho

Him/Leaf/fan
Jul 10, 2009
17,276
8,439
the Prior
If you want to say that he was trying to get as much money as possible, that’s fine but be he admitted that he was seeking an 8 year deal to start. He didn’t handcuff the team by only wanting to sign for 5 years.

*Matthews began seeking an eight-year contract. Talks would often go quiet. A couple of weeks ago a six-hour meeting in Toronto appeared to be the breakthrough in getting the deal done.*


Also, funny to note that Marner and his camp went to Toronto looking for 8 years by 9 million the year before he signed and Toronto turned them down.
The five-year term for Matthews is less than the eight-year contract that Connor McDavid, the No. 1 pick in the 2015 NHL Draft, signed with the Edmonton Oilers on July 5, 2017, but Matthews said the term was by design to help the Maple Leafs retain the financial flexibility to keep its young core together.:laugh::laugh:

The shorter deal is reminiscent of the five-year deal Tampa Bay Lightning star Steven Stamkos signed after the expiration of his entry-level deal in 2011, and the six-year extension Matthews’s current teammate John Tavares inked with the New York Islanders that same year. Both players, for various reasons, forwent longer deals so they could hit free agency at a younger age.":nod:

which does not help the Leafs in any way, but it does help Auston Matthews negotiate a much larger contract with having more eligible suitors, so one supposes there's that

as far as Marner is concerned "Mirtle wrote on Friday that the Maple Leafs have offered Marner between just under $9 million to roughly $11 million per season on his new deal based on term. Mirtle writes that the Leafs have discussed three, six and seven-year deals with Marner’s camp, who are thought to be uninterested in the max eight-year term.

Mirtle adds that the "general consensus" is that Marner's camp initially asked for Auston Matthews' contract - a five-year deal at a $11.6 million cap hit - before countering an eight-year offer from the Leafs with a three-year, $30 million bridge contract.

"It's just really the status quo at this point," Dubas told TSN. "And I think the reality is, it's the status quo with all these types of players throughout the league. There doesn't seem to be anything really transpiring, and as it gets into August, it's kind of into a bit of a slog where there doesn't seem to be any real progress, you don't even hear of any progress in any of the other situations."

despite all that gibbering jabber that warbaggalled as jabberwocky out of Dubas there, it was just him actually realizing he may have frigged up by opening himself and the team up to a good ol' jolly rodgering as they used to say at one time in old blighty!

The Leafs have been in a cap jail of their own making since, it's almost guaranteed that they have set themselves up to lose one of MM, Will or Matty! Depending upon whom is the next GM is, as long as the loss is not to UFA they may be able to at least turn the loss into a kind of win, the kind of pyrrhic victory Edmonton had when Gretzky was used to save hockey is SoCal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ToneDog

barilko05

People...they're the worst!
Jan 28, 2011
1,160
913
Just ran across a rumour from an unnamed party who's name starts with EK...or is that ICK? Anyway, said party floating a rumour of Chychrun for Willy AND Sandin. Coffee almost came out my nose over that one!
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: Jojalu and ToneDog

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad