Raptors Discussion: V62 0 Round 2 (Post Season Play Discussion)

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Joey24

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Mar 9, 2002
6,192
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I don't think there's any question the Raptors play cohesive as a 5 man unit without him.... Guys look for the best shot like you're supposed to, rather then trying to isolate and go 1on1 all day.

Derozan has no assists because he plays with his head down. He's not looking to make a play or ensure a score, he's trying to isolate and take his man off the bounce. He's not a very smart player, his handles are trash, and he's not a very good jump shooter outside of short range. We've known this for a while now but I guess he did well playing within his limitations until now? He's been this bad before, just not for 12 straight games now or whatever it is.

Casey being severely out coached too. Letting the opposing coach (whose team was losing at the time) dictate your line up? Embarrassing. Our half court offense is less sophisticated then that of a middle school. Embarrassing.

Went on a few runs grinding the ball inside and getting buckets in the paint, so resort back to jump shots when the games on the line - that makes perfect sense... Final play of regulation - he didn't have much drawn up other then get it to Ross. Problem is, almost everyone knew it would be Ross and he was covered... No backup plan, no forward cutting if Ross can't shake his man. CoJo did well to get a decent look. Not ideal but I don't hate it. Problem is lack of direction.... Last play of the game with a chance to take a commanding 3-1 lead and look what happens.

Also, Derozan is hurting the team. Casey needs to decide what's more important; the playoffs or Demar's feelings?

I agree, I can't defend Demar with how hes playing. Every time he touches the ball he kills the offense with either a bad contested shot, loses the ball trying to go through two or three defenders, or makes stupid decisions and throws it away.

I'm not sure why we went with the small ball game? Bismac was doing alright we had the lead our the guys on the floor were clicking so let them finish the game.

You don't start trying new stuff with your lineup when you got the lead that's stupid.
Poor shooting is what killed the raptors, Demar was what at the end of the game 3-20 or something sickening. shooting like 29% as a team in the first half jesus christ move the ball find the open man, stop being predictable, I don't understand letting the shot clock run down to 5 seconds before you make a decision on what your going to do.

It's like the team everyone forgot how to play team ball, and are just looking to try and pad their stats regardless the situation. It's so frustrating to watch, just play smart, stop collapsing under pressure and play how you played all season.
 

theaub

34-38-61-10-13-15
Nov 21, 2008
18,886
1,977
Toronto
If DeMar doesn't drive to the basket he can't play. He's nothing more than T-Ross with no three point range right now.
 

trellaine201

Registered User
Feb 10, 2010
20,333
3,127
Left coast
I know there not but sometimes it feels like their tanking. A lot of DD and Lowry shots aren't even close with some just completely embarrassing. And then there is Lowry trying to coach the team/make plays on the sideline. *sigh* his ego looks way too big IMO.
 

KapG

Registered User
Dec 2, 2008
10,699
1,881
Toronto
Where are all the demar defenders btw? Been saying this guy is trash the last several seasons and there were plenty of people jumping down my throat.

Where you all at now? This guy is ass and always has been
 

Gary Nylund

Registered User
Oct 10, 2013
31,162
24,580
He hit the rim, so that's a step up on DeMar.

Well played. :laugh:

Regardless how this series turns out, let DD walk. Guys soft as butter. We got enough of a sample size in the playoffs to know he doesn't have the "it" factor. Paul Pierce was right.

Hard to argue.

This isn't just a playoff thing with these guys. This team blew a lot of big leads this year trying to burn the clock on their possessions in the fourth quarter. They'd stand around for 18 seconds doing nothing and then not be able to get a good shot before the clock ran out. This team doesn't run a good half court offense. If they aren't playing a high tempo their offense goes away. I don't know if that's on Casey or the players themselves. I will say though that Derozan really looks like he has a pretty low basketball IQ. Pretty hard to coach a guy like that.

This is my biggest problem with this team. When the game comes down to one offensive possession, we're shooting a low percentage jumper, the only question is how low. I don't see how that can not be on the coach.

Let DeRozan walk. Please. Sign a wes Matthews type guy (I know he was a FA last year) who can shoo the three. Then center offence around JV and Kyle. That makes this team much better in playoffs.

Yes, yes and yes! :nod:

It looks like JV is about to enter his prime and will be a beast. Say goodbye to DD and then say goodbye to Casey. Get someone who can actually coach a team to play a team game that doesn't revolve around anyone but relies on moving the ball until someone/anyone gets a high percentage look and this team built around JV and Lowry could be really good.

I don't think there's any question the Raptors play cohesive as a 5 man unit without him.... Guys look for the best shot like you're supposed to, rather then trying to isolate and go 1on1 all day.

Derozan has no assists because he plays with his head down. He's not looking to make a play or ensure a score, he's trying to isolate and take his man off the bounce. He's not a very smart player, his handles are trash, and he's not a very good jump shooter outside of short range. We've known this for a while now but I guess he did well playing within his limitations until now? He's been this bad before, just not for 12 straight games now or whatever it is.

Casey being severely out coached too. Letting the opposing coach (whose team was losing at the time) dictate your line up? Embarrassing. Our half court offense is less sophisticated then that of a middle school. Embarrassing.

Went on a few runs grinding the ball inside and getting buckets in the paint, so resort back to jump shots when the games on the line - that makes perfect sense... Final play of regulation - he didn't have much drawn up other then get it to Ross. Problem is, almost everyone knew it would be Ross and he was covered... No backup plan, no forward cutting if Ross can't shake his man. CoJo did well to get a decent look. Not ideal but I don't hate it. Problem is lack of direction.... Last play of the game with a chance to take a commanding 3-1 lead and look what happens.

Also, Derozan is hurting the team. Casey needs to decide what's more important; the playoffs or Demar's feelings?

All true. Especially the final play of regulation ... so frustrating to see the same s..t over and over again.
 

Clark4Ever

What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Oct 10, 2010
11,830
8,587
T.O.
Demar has been very good in the regular season the last few years. Not max player worthy, but very good.

In the playoffs, he has been an unmitigated disaster; embarrassing to watch at times.

I don't see any logic whatsoever in signing him to a max contract. We would be better off without him, even if it meant playing more of a team game with fewer wins in the regular season.
 

Habsawce

Registered User
Nov 16, 2010
31,307
2,615
Canada
Demar has been very good in the regular season the last few years. Not max player worthy, but very good.

In the playoffs, he has been an unmitigated disaster; embarrassing to watch at times.

I don't see any logic whatsoever in signing him to a mac contract. We would be better off without him, even if it meant playing more of a team game with fewer wins in the regular season.

Need a better coach for that. But it can be done, look at San Antonio. They really only have one star at this tpoint (aging veterans) and they continually get it done. They move the ball so well and don't settle for tough jump shots every possession, like the Raptors do.

This team is just so damn frustrating. They play sound, fundamental basketball for 30 minutes and do so well and then for reasons unknown completely go off kilter and play school yard ball. Painful. I'm so sick of high screens and iso all game. It's so incredibly easy on the defense.
 

TOGuy14

Registered User
Dec 30, 2010
12,068
3,579
Toronto
Demar was so bad last night.

Total embarrassment that the only player who really showed up was Bismack Biyombo

The worst part is that Demar wasn't even close with some bad luck, he was missing laups and shooting air balls last night.

Raps need to seriously let this guy walk, or pursue other players well before him.
 

Neil Hamburger

Five Bagger!
Jun 15, 2010
3,553
6
Toronto
It's clear that JV is the player we need to build around.

Masai has done a great job, I hope he continues to do so, and lets DD walk. It would be nice if we could do a sign and trade like we did with Bosh.

Hopefully we can add some talent with the Nuggets/Knicks pick this draft, the core of this team will never win a championship as is.

There's still a good shot we beat Miami, but I would say the odds of us winning a series against Cleveland are less than 2 %.
 

Apotheosis

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Mar 27, 2014
11,618
5,178
Toronto, Ontario
Top 5 C that rises to the occasion however. I'd rather ride it out than rebuild and hope for a superstar while wasting JV's prime.

A top 5 C when the league is weak at the C position. Valanciunas is still young. All it takes is one draft to get a superstar type player, building around that guy, JV and Powell (who I am completely sold on; has Jimmy Butler V2 written all over him). I just can't buy in or defend the current team at all. Goes cold too much during the playoffs, horrible coaching, good players but not the transcendent tier that can carry in the playoffs. We'll never have those guys unless we develop them.
 

theaub

34-38-61-10-13-15
Nov 21, 2008
18,886
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Toronto
Would have no issue building around Powell/JV

Not sure what to do about Lowry. Don't really want to pay the guy for his decline after next year but you can tell that this team is just garbage when he's not on the floor.

If DD walks I can see us kind of like Portland this year...maybe 6-8 games worse in the regular season but still competitive.
 

Apotheosis

Registered User
Mar 27, 2014
11,618
5,178
Toronto, Ontario
Would have no issue building around Powell/JV

Not sure what to do about Lowry. Don't really want to pay the guy for his decline after next year but you can tell that this team is just garbage when he's not on the floor.

If DD walks I can see us kind of like Portland this year...maybe 6-8 games worse in the regular season but still competitive.

I honestly don't have a problem with doing a soft tank. Sign and trade Derozan and trade Lowry. Derozan doesn't fit and wasting Lowry's prime years when he isn't going to work here in the long run isn't fair. Could get picks and players back for them while handing the team over to Powell and JV. Become a more team oriented play style as well.
 

AnAceOfKidneys

Registered User
May 2, 2014
1,493
1
not sure if anyone else noticed this, but when they show Jurassic Park on the tv there are always at least a couple dozen people close to the camera who are flipping the bird.

They should be suspended for the remainder of this series. :)
 

GojuLeaf

Registered User
May 3, 2010
1,380
212
So are any diehard leafs/raps fabs far more excited about the leafs despite the fact that the leafs came in last this year and the raptors are in round 2 of the playoffs?


I don't know how many more shots i can watch derozan jack up.
Id rather give all his shots to terrance toss.
 

Neil Hamburger

Five Bagger!
Jun 15, 2010
3,553
6
Toronto
So are any diehard leafs/raps fabs far more excited about the leafs despite the fact that the leafs came in last this year and the raptors are in round 2 of the playoffs?


I don't know how many more shots i can watch derozan jack up.
Id rather give all his shots to terrance toss.

As a casual Raps fan, and die-hard Leafs fan, yes (this is a hockey forum after all). By casual I mean I watched probably half the Raptors games this season, and all the playoff games. Some would call that being a die-hard fan, but I'm definitely less of a Raps fan than a Leafs one.

I have a hard time envisioning a path to a championship for the Raptors.

The Leafs are a ways a way, but the organization has a clear plan in place towards building a championship caliber team.

I want to see a Toronto team win a championship (other than the Argos or TFC, who I don't care about). I've seen teams win playoff series before, but I've never experienced being a fan of a team that wins it all.
 
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KapG

Registered User
Dec 2, 2008
10,699
1,881
Toronto
Need a better coach for that. But it can be done, look at San Antonio. They really only have one star at this tpoint (aging veterans) and they continually get it done. They move the ball so well and don't settle for tough jump shots every possession, like the Raptors do.

This team is just so damn frustrating. They play sound, fundamental basketball for 30 minutes and do so well and then for reasons unknown completely go off kilter and play school yard ball. Painful. I'm so sick of high screens and iso all game. It's so incredibly easy on the defense.

Leonard or however it's spelt is an mvp quality player though. We have nothing close to him
 

sparxx87

Don Quixote
Jan 5, 2010
13,834
4,704
Toronto
Would have no issue building around Powell/JV

Not sure what to do about Lowry. Don't really want to pay the guy for his decline after next year but you can tell that this team is just garbage when he's not on the floor.

If DD walks I can see us kind of like Portland this year...maybe 6-8 games worse in the regular season but still competitive.

The Blazers have one of the best back courts still though... Lillard and McCollum are in a class above Lowry and Ross/Powell/whoever filled the 2 after Demar.

Offseason needs are a starting 4 with a post game and a bench 3 that can defend. Cap space and a top 10 pick to get it done. Sign and trade Demar to the highest bidder (fool) and put a focus on finding a coach who can run the defense, but also have some sort of offensive creativity.... Everyone goes cold sometimes and you've gotta be able to get the ball down low and get buckets to stay in the game. We have 1 guy who consistently does that and a coach who doesn't understand that. This creates a disadvantage going forward considering all other teams have competent offensive sets and go to plays when they need quick buckets... I don't think the Raptors have any of these. If they do, they're not working. They're broken. Time for some new ones.

Final play of regulation sealed it for me. This is the NBA and that's what we come up with? If they want Ross shooting they've gotta run misdirection or at least decoy that someone else might shoot... Also might want to think about a double screen or something else to create a gap when Ross tried to break. It was so predictable, Miami was all over it and they couldn't even get the ball into Ross' hands.

Miami is a good team but the Raptors could beat them with competent coaching and a star player who played selflessly instead of selfishly.... I don't mind losing to a better team or a team who gets hot at the right time, but losing how they lost last night is unacceptable... They hung around in that game to everyone's amazement. On the road, up in the series, gift wrapped a chance to win the game late and they blow it.. With the exception of a few players they deserve to have season over.
 

Habsawce

Registered User
Nov 16, 2010
31,307
2,615
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Leonard or however it's spelt is an mvp quality player though. We have nothing close to him

Leonard is one of the best players in the league, no doubt. He's a great player, but he's also a team player that has been molded by one of the greatest coaches ever. Kawhi in Toronto wouldn't be half the player he is, imo.
 
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Eyedea

The Legend Continues
Jan 29, 2012
27,796
3,645
Toronto, Ontario
A top 5 C when the league is weak at the C position. Valanciunas is still young. All it takes is one draft to get a superstar type player, building around that guy, JV and Powell (who I am completely sold on; has Jimmy Butler V2 written all over him). I just can't buy in or defend the current team at all. Goes cold too much during the playoffs, horrible coaching, good players but not the transcendent tier that can carry in the playoffs. We'll never have those guys unless we develop them.

I don't envision this team getting 1st overall though by dropping DD and trading Lowry. And I'm not sure how deep the next few drafts are, but this year's for example is pretty weak. Not to mention one of the deeper ones to date (Wiggins draft) hasn't turned out to be close to expected in terms of impact players.
 
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