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GlitchMarner said:
The Invasion angle essentially brought about the end of the best period in wrestling history. I'm not a huge Attitude Era mark or anything (I don't think the WWE was all that great from '98 to mid-'99), but that era was definitely top-notch throughout 2000 and the early part of 2001. Whereas earlier in the era, guys like Billy Gunn and Val Venis were pushed like they were big stars, by 2000 guys like Jericho, Angle, Guerrero, Benoit etc had joined and the roster was very deep and talented. The tag team division was great. The Rock was still around. Austin wasn't at his best but was still good. HHH was at his absolute peak.

Given Vince's ego and the fact he had bought WCW, an Invasion type angle was inevitable. I don't know if it could have worked any better than it did without the involvement of the likes of Hogan, Nash, Steiner, Goldberg etc. I feel that even if these stars had been brought in during the angle, the angle might still have been disappointing and the WWE might have buried WCW. Maybe it was simply inevitable that the WWE and pro wrestling in general would enter a decline after the sale of WCW. Competition can force a company to have to adapt and improve.

I am not a fan of the Ruthless Aggression era, the PG era or whatever the hell the latest era is in the WWE. I watched the WWE often from '08 to '12 or so but didn't enjoy it nearly as much then as I did early in the century.
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I think that it still would have disappointed no matter who was there, mainly because Vince just wanted to rub his "victory" in everyone's faces rather than put out the best angle possible. The WCW faction could have at least been credible if Vince had been willing to pay. While the outcome of the angle was always going to be WWF wins, and rightly so, there were many fresh matchups available and lots of story potential with wrestlers with history in both companies. McMahons vs McMahons was far less interesting than anything that would have been expected leading in to the storyline.
 
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BigBadBruins7708 said:
All fair, but adding ECW was to fill out the ranks and get another star on the WCW side.

Don't forget all the top WCW stars weren't available because of their contracts with Time Warner.

WWE had to find some way to get more starpower on the invaders and the answer was RVD and Heyman via ECW
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Still don't get why they turned people like Stone Cold and Angle and Test instead of recent WCW defectors like Jericho and Big Show. Heel Jericho leading the alliance, along with him working off/with Heyman would have been phenomenal.

The complete burial of DDP was pathetic. Him and Booker should have been the guys leading WCW since they couldn't get Hogan, Goldberg, Sting, Nash, Flair, Steiner, etc.


Look at the Survivor Series end of the feud matchup. You only had Booker T and RVD from WCW/ECW the other 3 were Austin, Angle and freaking Shane.

You could have had Booker, RVD, Jericho, DDP and Big Show (or whoever) and then Austin and Angle on Team WWF.
 
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BruinDust said:
That's the one I meant, I thought it was Philly for some reason. Yes that pop was insane. Any notion of having Austin turn on Team WWF should of been squashed that minute.

Totally agree on the other two points about Vince wanting to bury "dubya cee dubya" and how he took a former world champ and main eventer in DDP and made him basically just a guy.
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DDP vs Rock Peoples champ vs Peoples champ. We should have had THAT instead of some stalking shit.
 
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Big Poppa Puck said:
Still don't get why they turned people like Stone Cold and Angle and Test instead of recent WCW defectors like Jericho and Big Show. Heel Jericho leading the alliance, along with him working off/with Heyman would have been phenomenal.

The complete burial of DDP was pathetic. Him and Booker should have been the guys leading WCW since they couldn't get Hogan, Goldberg, Sting, Nash, Flair, Steiner, etc.


Look at the Survivor Series end of the feud matchup. You only had Booker T and RVD from WCW/ECW the other 3 were Austin, Angle and freaking Shane.

You could have had Booker, RVD, Jericho, DDP and Big Show (or whoever) and then Austin and Angle on Team WWF.
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Yup, that's what I would of done too. Basically start it off with Booker T and DDP. Add Jericho as the leader at Invasion. Toss in RVD with WCW as he wasn't a WWF guy. Have Big Show turn, like you said recent WCW guy. Built in story, just claim him and Jericho had been working on behalf of WCW for the past couple years. Get Heyman for promos. I would of added Kidman and Storm so you'd still have guys who weren't complete jobbers but could still take a loss or two. Maybe do a big turn with a WWF guy down the road like maybe 'Taker at Summerslam. It's like they were determined to try and recreate the magic of the Hogan/nWo turn by having Austin turn on the WWF very early in the story.
 
sabremike said:
Remember: The Invasion angle was booked to gratify the egos of Vince and his stooges, not make money.
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Pretty much. You could tell Vince's real feelings on the whole thing when he came out on Raw and declare he had "enough of this Invasion crap" and decided to have that winner-take-all match at S-Series. Yes it was him in character, but you could tell that his feelings on the angle were real, he had enough at that point as he was never truly invested in the angle to begin with and deep down just wanted to finally put WCW in its place.
 
BruinDust said:
Yup, that's what I would of done too. Basically start it off with Booker T and DDP. Add Jericho as the leader at Invasion. Toss in RVD with WCW as he wasn't a WWF guy. Have Big Show turn, like you said recent WCW guy. Built in story, just claim him and Jericho had been working on behalf of WCW for the past couple years. Get Heyman for promos. I would of added Kidman and Storm so you'd still have guys who weren't complete jobbers but could still take a loss or two. Maybe do a big turn with a WWF guy down the road like maybe 'Taker at Summerslam. It's like they were determined to try and recreate the magic of the Hogan/nWo turn by having Austin turn on the WWF very early in the story.
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They also could've added Benoit and Guerrero as top WCW invaders too. They were heels already and had just "invaded" the WWE as The Radicalz

Instead they werent even part of the angle for either side. Complete ego masturbation on Vince's part...which is the main theme to WWE booking the last 20 years and why the industry is where it's at now.
 
BigBadBruins7708 said:
They also could've added Benoit and Guerrero as top WCW invaders too. They were heels already and had just "invaded" the WWE as The Radicalz

Instead they werent even part of the angle for either side. Complete ego masturbation on Vince's part...which is the main theme to WWE booking the last 20 years and why the industry is where it's at now.
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Benoit was injured (severe neck injury) and Guerrero was in rehab during the Invasion storyline. Coincidentally Guerrero was fired about a week before Survivor Series 2001.
 
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BruinDust said:
Benoit was injured (severe neck injury) and Guerrero was in rehab during the Invasion storyline. Coincidentally Guerrero was fired about a week before Survivor Series 2001.
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I may be incorrect but iirc Eddie even worked a match with Mysterio and CM Punk on the indy scene in that brief period where he wasn’t in the WWE

imagine seeing that at an indy show
 
Kaner9 said:
DDP vs Rock Peoples champ vs Peoples champ. We should have had THAT instead of some stalking shit.
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I didn't hate the stalker gimmick as a way to bring in Page, the problem is they kept going with it. The whole story should have been DDP stalking just to come in with attention, but WWE screwed it up and made him an actual stalker as well as using it how I described.

The reveal was pretty great. Probably the last time I remember being shocked watching wrestling, having no prior knowledge Page was coming in.
 
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I personally can't stand the Elite whatsoever. I realized this as AEW has gone on that, for whatever reason, matches they were in just rub me the wrong way, and I can't put my finger on it.

But, since AEW is a critical darling, saying such stuff is hearsay.
 
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JDogindy said:
I personally can't stand the Elite whatsoever. I realized this as AEW has gone on that, for whatever reason, matches they were in just rub me the wrong way, and I can't put my finger on it.

But, since AEW is a critical darling, saying such stuff is hearsay.
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Yes! Its not funny goody to me its awkward goofy. I cant do AEW.
 
JDogindy said:
I personally can't stand the Elite whatsoever. I realized this as AEW has gone on that, for whatever reason, matches they were in just rub me the wrong way, and I can't put my finger on it.

But, since AEW is a critical darling, saying such stuff is hearsay.
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I think that there are plenty of fans who can't stand the elite. Pretty divisive group in wrestling. I'm not a fan but it really varies from member to member. I can't stand the Young Bucks in or out of the ring. Omega has been a clear disappointment in AEW and he can't cut a decent promo, but he is capable of very good work in ring. Page is becoming pretty good and I suspect can become better too. I've liked Rhodes for a long time, though I'd prefer if he'd say a lot less in interviews.
 
JackSlater said:
I think that there are plenty of fans who can't stand the elite. Pretty divisive group in wrestling. I'm not a fan but it really varies from member to member. I can't stand the Young Bucks in or out of the ring. Omega has been a clear disappointment in AEW and he can't cut a decent promo, but he is capable of very good work in ring. Page is becoming pretty good and I suspect can become better too. I've liked Rhodes for a long time, though I'd prefer if he'd say a lot less in interviews.
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I don't discount their abilities as workers, it's more that... they're not my style.

I was accused of making false evidence when I said I "felt like" (again, felt like) they always won and didn't put people over, in spite of their early win/loss record in AEW being rather dismal, and that while WWE had tainted the "looking good in defeat" argument, AEW is different and that it's okay that people lose to them because they're the Elite, and it's a good thing.

I felt like they were going to be a special attraction for fans, where if you saw them wrestle it was a treat, not eventually the focus of the company in which every guy is hovering around the titles. This happened in WWE in the early 2000s with Triple H, this obviously happened in TNA in the early 2000s where Jeff Jarrett made himself the focus of the show and pissed off a bunch of fans, and we can go all the way back to the AWA with Verne Gagne for decades. Even if you're good in the ring, fans will eventually want two things; variety (at least not the 2000 WCW kind) and not rewarding nepotism. Will the Elite transition to backstage roles in 5 years, or will they still be the focus of the program in 5 years? I don't know.

But I do know questioning it is a bad thing to do.
 
I don't know if I'm becoming a hipster but the "coolness" factor of the Young Bucks has worn off to me from ROH/NJPW to AEW. They still put on some great matches like the Ladder Match vs the Lucha Bros, the match vs Omega/Page and the most recent match vs. The Revival. But I really don't like them as much as I used to.

Love Omega, but he's been another disappointment in AEW. And I don't think "he was only good because of Okada" like some say. He was putting on a ton of great matches with others in Japan (including Jericho), and has had some good ones in AEW, it's just his character that needs work.

Cody was always my "least favorite" member of the Elite and he did some great heel work in that Bullet Club power struggle angle, but in AEW he has more of a "look at me I'm an EVP" feel to him, like that unnecessary intro before his entrance. Even when he loses I feel like he's doing to say "SEE I'M NOT JUST PUTTING MYSELF OVER ALL THE TIME." I think he needs to be a heel and cut shorter promos/do less interviews. The continued shots at WWE have gotten old too.

I've always just meh towards Page.

My personal favorite was Scurll, but he wasn't able to join AEW at the time of the rest of them, then re-signed with ROH on a sweetheart deal cause he had them up a barrel and now is buried somewhere because of legal trouble/allegations.
 
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Sam Cogliano said:
I don't get the hype for Undisputed Era. Just another attempt at an NWO faction, but they're all vanilla midgets.
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They grew on me. Its not some original group and the hand gesture is complete cringe but the matches are good. Strange I like them in matches on their own but not team matches when there are so many crazy spots.
 
KingHollywood said:
Much like WWE, I see very little in Aleister Black.
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I'd suggest investing in a pair of glasses.

Seriously, check out his work on the indies as Tommy End when he wasn't hindered by the "brilliant" WWE creative team. I remember seeing him for the first time at the Mania week indy shows in 2013 and being blown away at just how great he was.
 
Regarding Black, I've never seen much in him. I hate his look and his in ring work doesn't impress me. I can't remember any promo he's ever cut.

Regarding Raw, the terrible part in my eyes is that it's three hours of crap. At least during the early era of Raw crap it was only one or two hours. It only hurts things further when you've got so many other hours of crap throughout the week if you intended to follow all WWE programming.
 
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