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Damien Darhk said:
Guerrero and Benoit were both incredibly overrated.
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I'll hear you out on Benoit...mind you I disagree but i'm open to reasoning...Guerrero on the other hand no chance...the guy was LEGIT in the ring, on the mic and was apparently one of the nicest guys you could hope to meet...Eddie's style was believable which for me at least made all the difference in the world.
 
JayfromNB1219 said:
I'll hear you out on Benoit...mind you I disagree but i'm open to reasoning...Guerrero on the other hand no chance...the guy was LEGIT in the ring, on the mic and was apparently one of the nicest guys you could hope to meet...Eddie's style was believable which for me at least made all the difference in the world.
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I've read that Guerrero was pretty surly, though I do remember him at a nothing house show being very good with fans. Regardless he's definitely a guy with no real weakness as a wrestler.
 
JayfromNB1219 said:
I'll hear you out on Benoit...mind you I disagree but i'm open to reasoning...Guerrero on the other hand no chance...the guy was LEGIT in the ring, on the mic and was apparently one of the nicest guys you could hope to meet...Eddie's style was believable which for me at least made all the difference in the world.
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I can understand thinking Benoit is overrated because he was pretty bad on the mic, but he was so good in the ring that I think you have state as the reason he was overrated and even then I think "overrated" is overstating the case by quite a long way.
 
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les Habs said:
I can understand thinking Benoit is overrated because he was pretty bad on the mic, but he was so good in the ring that I think you have state as the reason he was overrated and even then I think "overrated" is overstating the case by quite a long way.
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Benoit's promo ability was fairly well suited to his overall gimmick. I can't hold it against him too much. He was also one of the few guys who, in my opinion anyway, was better at promos when he was younger. I'm guessing that brain damage had something to do with that.
 
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JackSlater said:
Benoit's promo ability was fairly well suited to his overall gimmick. I can't hold it against him too much. He was also one of the few guys who, in my opinion anyway, was better at promos when he was younger. I'm guessing that brain damage had something to do with that.
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There were far worse guys of course and I would amend my post to "average" and not "pretty bad", but still he wasn't very believable. I can picture one of his promos from the Sullivan feud and it just seemed put on. Still, like I said, I think he was fantastic in the ring.
 
Watching early 2000’s smackdown the thing that sticks out to me about Benoit is his toothless grin. Didn’t really need to cut a promo with that look


The comedy him and Angle did was great
 
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Benoit showed a lot of personality when he first started breaking away from the Radicalz. Was doing decent heel work while working with Rock and Austin.
 
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CDJ said:
Watching early 2000’s smackdown the thing that sticks out to me about Benoit is his toothless grin. Didn’t really need to cut a promo with that look


The comedy him and Angle did was great
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I don't remember any Benoit promo except the one about the ladder. 2002 or 2003 I think? He was no taker but he did not need it. Benoit as a talker talking shit and then decimating guys would have been amazing though
 
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I will say this- while I really appreciate his work from that time it really sucks watching the diving headbutts and chair shots knowing what ended up happening


Back on topic of this thread I think London/Kendrick is the most overlooked tag team Of the 2000’s. Idk if that’s unpopular or not
 
CDJ said:
I will say this- while I really appreciate his work from that time it really sucks watching the diving headbutts and chair shots knowing what ended up happening


Back on topic of this thread I think London/Kendrick is the most overlooked tag team Of the 2000’s. Idk if that’s unpopular or not
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London and Kendrick probably would have been a lot more appreciated had they come along ten years later. London also may have lasted longer as attitudes... altered.
 
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JackSlater said:
Can you elaborate on this? I don't think that ECW was a necessary component but I also don't think that it was a big deal to have ECW there.
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ECW was simply not on the same level from a recognition stand-point as WCW and WWF. It was a cult-following, niche product. I'm not trying to knock ECW but that is what it was. While I don't think keeping it solely WCW would of saved the angle, adding ECW watered the concept down, as for fans who weren't die-hard pro wrestling fans, ECW as a brand or name meant little to nothing for more casual fans of WWF. If it wasn't for the fact the WCW roster was so shallow, they never add ECW to the storyline.
 
BruinDust said:
ECW was simply not on the same level from a recognition stand-point as WCW and WWF. It was a cult-following, niche product. I'm not trying to knock ECW but that is what it was. While I don't think keeping it solely WCW would of saved the angle, adding ECW watered the concept down, as for fans who weren't die-hard pro wrestling fans, ECW as a brand or name meant little to nothing for more casual fans of WWF. If it wasn't for the fact the WCW roster was so shallow, they never add ECW to the storyline.
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I agree, though I think that the angle was sunk regardless. It was always going to end up being about the McMahons due to ego, and with Vince not buying out the contracts of WCW's top wrestlers there was no way for things to be credible in kayfabe terms. WWF vs WCW and ECW led by WWF wrestlers and McMahons inevitably sucks.
 
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JackSlater said:
I agree, though I think that the angle was sunk regardless. It was always going to end up being about the McMahons due to ego, and with Vince not buying out the contracts of WCW's top wrestlers there was no way for things to be credible in kayfabe terms. WWF vs WCW and ECW led by WWF wrestlers and McMahons inevitably sucks.
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Just poorly executed. Your right it wouldn't of mattered for the exact reasons you state.
 
People always harp on how horrendous the Katie Vick angle was, but there were a few egregious things in 2003 that seem to not be nearly as scrutinized.

Anyone remember...

The time Bischoff broke into the McMahon home and basically sexually-assaulted Linda McMahon? I saw the segment on YT the other day and I was like, "damn, I don't remember this being this f***ed up." Imagine something like that in the PG era. Apparently Vince himself directed this segment... ugh.



How about when Vince choked Stephanie out with a lead pipe?

Or when McMahon said something along the lines of he wanted terrorists to break into The Undertaker's home and rape his wife?



Seems Vince really got into a "Ruthless Aggression" phase in '03.
 
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BruinDust said:
ECW was simply not on the same level from a recognition stand-point as WCW and WWF. It was a cult-following, niche product. I'm not trying to knock ECW but that is what it was. While I don't think keeping it solely WCW would of saved the angle, adding ECW watered the concept down, as for fans who weren't die-hard pro wrestling fans, ECW as a brand or name meant little to nothing for more casual fans of WWF. If it wasn't for the fact the WCW roster was so shallow, they never add ECW to the storyline.
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All fair, but adding ECW was to fill out the ranks and get another star on the WCW side.

Don't forget all the top WCW stars weren't available because of their contracts with Time Warner.

WWE had to find some way to get more starpower on the invaders and the answer was RVD and Heyman via ECW
 
GlitchMarner said:
People always harp on how horrendous the Katie Vick angle was, but there were a few egregious things in 2003 that seem to not be nearly as scrutinized.

Anyone remember...

The time Bischoff broke into the McMahon home and basically sexually-assaulted Linda McMahon? I saw the segment on YT the other day and I was like, "damn, I don't remember this being this f***ed up." Imagine something like that in the PG era. Apparently Vince himself directed this segment... ugh.



How about when Vince choked Stephanie out with a lead pipe?

Or when McMahon said something along the lines of he wanted terrorists to break into The Undertaker's home and rape his wife?



Seems Vince really got into a "Ruthless Aggression" phase in '03.
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It seems really, really likely that Vince has some very out there... predilections when it comes to women.
 
The Invasion angle essentially brought about the end of the best period in wrestling history. I'm not a huge Attitude Era mark or anything (I don't think the WWE was all that great from '98 to mid-'99), but that era was definitely top-notch throughout 2000 and the early part of 2001. Whereas earlier in the era, guys like Billy Gunn and Val Venis were pushed like they were big stars, by 2000 guys like Jericho, Angle, Guerrero, Benoit etc had joined and the roster was very deep and talented. The tag team division was great. The Rock was still around. Austin wasn't at his best but was still good. HHH was at his absolute peak.

Given Vince's ego and the fact he had bought WCW, an Invasion type angle was inevitable. I don't know if it could have worked any better than it did without the involvement of the likes of Hogan, Nash, Steiner, Goldberg etc. I feel that even if these stars had been brought in during the angle, the angle might still have been disappointing and the WWE might have buried WCW. Maybe it was simply inevitable that the WWE and pro wrestling in general would enter a decline after the sale of WCW. Competition can force a company to have to adapt and improve.

I am not a fan of the Ruthless Aggression era, the PG era or whatever the hell the latest era is in the WWE. I watched the WWE often from '08 to '12 or so but didn't enjoy it nearly as much then as I did early in the century.
 
BigBadBruins7708 said:
All fair, but adding ECW was to fill out the ranks and get another star on the WCW side.

Don't forget all the top WCW stars weren't available because of their contracts with Time Warner.

WWE had to find some way to get more starpower on the invaders and the answer was RVD and Heyman via ECW
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Oh I agree I know why they did it, but it didn't really help (If anything it hurt the ECW guys because they became fodder for the heel Austin as the leader of the Alliance). Only guy who benefitted was RVD and they could of easily added him to "WCW" and no one would of cared.

I also think making Austin the leader was a huge blunder too. Go watch that Raw in Philly when they teased the face Austin returning to fight off WCW/ECW, the fans went crazy for the "old Stone Cold" as Mr.McMahon would say. I would of had some else turn, either Jericho (easy story to write as he was recently in WCW) or even Taker who was stale as a babyface and that would of been more shocking really than Austin.
 
BruinDust said:
Oh I agree I know why they did it, but it didn't really help (If anything it hurt the ECW guys because they became fodder for the heel Austin as the leader of the Alliance). Only guy who benefitted was RVD and they could of easily added him to "WCW" and no one would of cared.

I also think making Austin the leader was a huge blunder too. Go watch that Raw in Philly when they teased the face Austin returning to fight off WCW/ECW, the fans went crazy for the "old Stone Cold" as Mr.McMahon would say. I would of had some else turn, either Jericho (easy story to write as he was recently in WCW) or even Taker who was stale as a babyface and that would of been more shocking really than Austin.
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Or the godly pop in Providence when he saved team WWE from the invaders after Vince was a the bar trying to convince him all episode.

Fact is the invasion angle should've been a 12-24 month angle. But Vince's ego cost him and he couldn't wait to take a victory lap burying all the WCW "rasslers".

Case in point, DDP. The pop when he was revealed as the stalker was insane. Yet it leads to a couple PPV glorified squash matches and he's buried into oblivion.

 
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BigBadBruins7708 said:
Or the godly pop in Providence when he saved team WWE from the invaders after Vince was a the bar trying to convince him all episode.

Fact is the invasion angle should've been a 12-24 month angle. But Vince's ego cost him and he couldn't wait to take a victory lap burying all the WCW "rasslers".

Case in point, DDP. The pop when he was revealed as the stalker was insane. Yet it leads to a couple PPV glorified squash matches and he's buried into oblivion.

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That's the one I meant, I thought it was Philly for some reason. Yes that pop was insane. Any notion of having Austin turn on Team WWF should of been squashed that minute.

Totally agree on the other two points about Vince wanting to bury "dubya cee dubya" and how he took a former world champ and main eventer in DDP and made him basically just a guy.
 
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