Uh Oh. Matt Murray Leaves Practice LTIR'd (injury discussion)

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Why are we leaving guys at home when we go on a 5 game western road trip? What?

Why not have a 7th dman on a trip that length? Seriously, what is the possible reason this is a good idea?
Same with extra forward. Why not? Also a western road trip, a good opportunity for guys to feel part of the team. They will be later.

Team not ready? They have won two out of three and could have won that first one too. A .667 winning percentage puts you on top of the league most years.

You seriously think it was lucky we didn't lose Simmonds? Seriously? We were never losing Simmonds.

I thought maybe you were going to make hockey points or business of hockey points, I didn't know you were one of those make everything look like it is a problem caused by Dubas' or Keefe. That's tiring.
So, we don't want Simmonds, nobody wants Simmons, so we bring him up to replace someone who made the team. You do not need 2 extra forwards for the trip. This is just bs decisions again. That is a hockey point.
Simmons is not part of the team...we told him that. We cut him.
Can't you see what this does to players who last week we told them they were members of this team.
 
Wouldn’t any team in the league be in trouble if their 1 and 2 goalies got injured?
Campbell and Kemper also have injury history so it isn’t like Murray is the only one we would have been taking a risk on
I suppose if the Pittsburgh Penguins chartered a flight to TORONTO and the plane went down (killing everyone) that they would be in tough to make the playoffs this year.

This is a silly argument. Other injured players around the league doesn't soften what's going on in TOR.

Here is the reality though: Dubas risked trading for Murray. Murray has had a litany of injuries from when he played for OTT. Now he's injured after his first regular season start.

Kuemper, Campbell being injury risky doesn't change Dubas' risky trade for Murray.

Now Murray is out for 10 games or more, and I don't think that's how Dubas wanted this to play out. Why? Because Samsonov was risky too. As of today everything seems peachy because TOR is winning games. But who takes the load from Samsonov? Kallgren? Kallgren as the back up is risky.

There is nothing intentional about how we got here.
 
Why are so many people upset at Dubas for bringing in a winner like Murray. Kyle is brilliant and knows what he is doing here, we are clearly using 5D chess moves. :naughty:

Trust the plan -D
 
I suppose if the Pittsburgh Penguins chartered a flight to TORONTO and the plane went down (killing everyone) that they would be in tough to make the playoffs this year.

This is a silly argument. Other injured players around the league doesn't soften what's going on in TOR.

Here is the reality though: Dubas risked trading for Murray. Murray has had a litany of injuries from when he played for OTT. Now he's injured after his first regular season start.

Kuemper, Campbell being injury risky doesn't change Dubas' risky trade for Murray.

Now Murray is out for 10 games or more, and I don't think that's how Dubas wanted this to play out. Why? Because Samsonov was risky too. As of today everything seems peachy because TOR is winning games. But who takes the load from Samsonov? Kallgren? Kallgren as the back up is risky.

There is nothing intentional about how we got here.
I didn’t think the Murray trade was a good one. Too much cap. Too many injuries. Not enough return for taking on that risk.

But you are still being unreasonable. Of course any team would be in a tough situation if both their goalies got hurt. There were no sure thing goalies available to sign or trade for and any goalie could have gotten hurt. We saw both of our goaltenders suffer injuries last season.
 
Why are so many people upset at Dubas for bringing in a winner like Murray. Kyle is brilliant and knows what he is doing here, we are clearly using 5D chess moves. :naughty:

Trust the plan -D
Why couldn’t Dubas have just drafted Shesterkin before he was even the GM or traded some random draft picks for Vasilevskiy or signed Flurey as a UFA even though he didn’t make it to free agency. It’s all so simple.

I have seen lots of people complain about the moves Dubas made in net myself included but I haven’t seen many people come up with reasonable alternatives.
 
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I didn’t think the Murray trade was a good one. Too much cap. Too many injuries. Not enough return for taking on that risk.

But you are still being unreasonable. Of course any team would be in a tough situation if both their goalies got hurt. There were no sure thing goalies available to sign or trade for and any goalie could have gotten hurt. We saw both of our goaltenders suffer injuries last season.
No. That's not true. There was a lot goalies available. It's just that you and I are not privy to who they might be, their cost, and cap limitations. I'm not being unreasonable. I didn't like this move and boom: Murray is injured after his first start.
 
So, we don't want Simmonds, nobody wants Simmons, so we bring him up to replace someone who made the team. You do not need 2 extra forwards for the trip. This is just bs decisions again. That is a hockey point.
Simmons is not part of the team...we told him that. We cut him.
Can't you see what this does to players who last week we told them they were members of this team.
It does nothing to the players that made the team last week. What are you afraid will happen to them?

Are you worried about the cost of airfare? The Leafs can afford it.

Last post your issue was Mete being called up...you don't want a seventh dman on a five game western road trip, even though we have the cap space and there is no downside to using it. I don't agree with your "logic" though now you seem to have moved on to Simmonds and our treating a classy and popular veteran with some dignity but hey, your concern is some ill-defined impact on the guys that made the team last week.

We don't agree and that's fine, the issue is I don't really understand your position on this.
 
No. That's not true. There was a lot goalies available. It's just that you and I are not privy to who they might be, their cost, and cap limitations. I'm not being unreasonable. I didn't like this move and boom: Murray is injured after his first start.
Ohh there were lots of goalies available it was just so top secret that the multiple guys like Chris Johnston and Friedman who make their livings of knowing about it didn’t find out.
Yeah sometimes guys are available off the radar but not much.

I also think the Murray trade was bad but I don’t think there was a lot available that would have been good. Hell Samsonov may turn out to be one of the better off season goaltending moves and that was the same GM
 
I suppose if the Pittsburgh Penguins chartered a flight to TORONTO and the plane went down (killing everyone) that they would be in tough to make the playoffs this year.

This is a silly argument. Other injured players around the league doesn't soften what's going on in TOR.

Here is the reality though: Dubas risked trading for Murray. Murray has had a litany of injuries from when he played for OTT. Now he's injured after his first regular season start.

Kuemper, Campbell being injury risky doesn't change Dubas' risky trade for Murray.

Now Murray is out for 10 games or more, and I don't think that's how Dubas wanted this to play out. Why? Because Samsonov was risky too. As of today everything seems peachy because TOR is winning games. But who takes the load from Samsonov? Kallgren? Kallgren as the back up is risky.

There is nothing intentional about how we got here.

To add to your point, the Leafs insisted a thorough medical be conducted on Murray prior to approval of the trade - if Dubas was playing some long con dance with the NHL regarding Murray & LTIR (what a ridiculous suggestion to begin with), surely they'd forgo any additional medical criteria just to get the deal over the line.
 
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To add to your point, the Leafs insisted a thorough medical be conducted on Murray prior to approval of the trade - if Dubas was playing some long con dance with the NHL regarding Murray & LTIR (what a ridiculous suggestion to begin with), surely they'd forgo any additional medical criteria just to get the deal over the line.
No one with a functioning brain is suggesting that Dubas traded for Murray just to put him on LTIR.
 
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So, we don't want Simmonds, nobody wants Simmons, so we bring him up to replace someone who made the team. You do not need 2 extra forwards for the trip. This is just bs decisions again. That is a hockey point.
Simmons is not part of the team...we told him that. We cut him.
Can't you see what this does to players who last week we told them they were members of this team.
So you would just take 20 players on a 5 game road trip and leave the available cap unused rather than have 3 players come along as insurance?

Can you expand on your thought process because on the surface it seems to be an incredibly stupid one.
 
Of course any team would be in a tough situation if both their goalies got hurt. There were no sure thing goalies available to sign or trade for and any goalie could have gotten hurt. We saw both of our goaltenders suffer injuries last season
So why trade for a goalie that has been injury prone for the last 3 years? Dumb move.
 
So, we don't want Simmonds, nobody wants Simmons, so we bring him up to replace someone who made the team. You do not need 2 extra forwards for the trip. This is just bs decisions again. That is a hockey point.
Simmons is not part of the team...we told him that. We cut him.
Can't you see what this does to players who last week we told them they were members of this team.
Who says Simmonds even plays. He is likely injury insurance. Furthermore he is reportedly very well liked and respected by the Leafs players. To the point that he was never forced to report to the Marlies and just continued to practice with the non roster players.
While you may not want to see Simmonds anywhere near the team at this point it doesn’t mean the players feel the same way that you do.

So why trade for a goalie that has been injury prone for the last 3 years? Dumb move.
Okay what was the alternative?
 
No. That's not true. There was a lot goalies available. It's just that you and I are not privy to who they might be, their cost, and cap limitations. I'm not being unreasonable. I didn't like this move and boom: Murray is injured after his first start.
Friedman said Murray wasn’t our first or second choice this off-season, when those fell through Dubas changed gears and went after a Murray.
 
Why couldn’t Dubas have just drafted Shesterkin before he was even the GM or traded some random draft picks for Vasilevskiy or signed Flurey as a UFA even though he didn’t make it to free agency. It’s all so simple.

I have seen lots of people complain about the moves Dubas made in net myself included but I haven’t seen many people come up with reasonable alternatives.
Husso could have been had but yzerman being yzerman traded a pick to get his rights. Too bad yzerman is the Detroit GM and we have 4D chess pro dubie dubes. I also would have signed comrie as the backup, would you believe husso and comrie who both had better seasons then Murray and Samsonov would have been the same exact caphits….
 
I'm no longer certain what you're arguing about.

You're just here to defend Dubas'?
Was I talking to you in that post? Maybe try reading what the person I was responding to posted and then you can catch up.

I have no agenda to defend or bash the GM. He has made good moves and bad and they should be judged independently. But you do you. Rant and overreact about everything.
 
Was I talking to you in that post? Maybe try reading what the person I was responding to posted and then you can catch up.

I have no agenda to defend or bash the GM. He has made good moves and bad and they should be judged independently. But you do you. Rant and overreact about everything.
Don't tell me what to do. Especially don't tell me to suppress the best part about being fan.
 
Husso could have been had but yzerman being yzerman traded a pick to get his rights. Too bad yzerman is the Detroit GM and we have 4D chess pro dubie dubes. I also would have signed comrie as the backup, would you believe husso and comrie who both had better seasons then Murray and Samsonov would have been the same exact caphits….
Husso would have been an interesting option. I probably would have preferred him to Murray but let’s not act like he is a sure thing either.
He has played 57 games at 27 and wasn’t any good till last season playing in front of one of the best defensive teams in the league.
Eric Comrie has played 29 career games with mixed results. Between the 2 of them they had less than a full season of starts coming into this year. Either one of them could work out or could struggle in a new bigger roll.

Both of those guys just like Murray carried a lot of risks.

Don't tell me what to do. Especially don't tell me to suppress the best part about being fan.
I don’t really care what you do.
 
Why couldn’t Dubas have just drafted Shesterkin before he was even the GM or traded some random draft picks for Vasilevskiy or signed Flurey as a UFA even though he didn’t make it to free agency. It’s all so simple.

I have seen lots of people complain about the moves Dubas made in net myself included but I haven’t seen many people come up with reasonable alternatives.
5yrs ago he knew that goaltending was an issue and to date has failed to find a suitable tandem.
 
5yrs ago he knew that goaltending was an issue and to date has failed to find a suitable tandem.
I don’t disagree for the most part. I don’t think goaltending has been our downfall but it certainly hasn’t been good enough either.
I mostly object to the people having a complete meltdown about our goaltending situation right now even tho it’s been okay so far overall. And complaining about the huge risk Dubas took even tho most of the goalie options this summer looked pretty risky.
 
Friedman said Murray wasn’t our first or second choice this off-season, when those fell through Dubas changed gears and went after a Murray.

You could see the game of musical chairs winding down with Husso getting traded to Detroit and Minnesota locking up Fleury ahead of free agency.

Though Samsonov is essentially a Husso type in terms of career stage. (Husso himself is only 6 months younger than Murray but doesn't have the same kind of career wear and tear.
 
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Husso would have been an interesting option. I probably would have preferred him to Murray but let’s not act like he is a sure thing either.
He has played 57 games at 27 and wasn’t any good till last season playing in front of one of the best defensive teams in the league.
Eric Comrie has played 29 career games with mixed results. Between the 2 of them they had less than a full season of starts coming into this year. Either one of them could work out or could struggle in a new bigger roll.

Both of those guys just like Murray carried a lot of risks.


I don’t really care what you do.
The small sample sizes are a valid point on husso and comrie, however neither goalie we’re given any real games played in their career until last year and both goalies put up very good numbers. For me, I’d prefer the 2 young goalies not given much opportunity until last year who put up good numbers over a goalie in murray who has been replacement level and injury prone the last 3 years and samsonov who Washington who thought so highly of let him walk for nothing. You tell me which duo I’d bet my job on, both husso/comrie and Murray/samsnov have there own risks but the husso/comrie is a better bet.

husso/samsonov would have been ok to, murray was the rotten tomatoe dubas went for….
 
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The small sample sizes are a valid point on husso and comrie, however neither goalie we’re given any real games played in their career until last year and both goalies put up very good numbers. For me, I’d prefer the 2 young goalies not given much opportunity until last year who put up good numbers over a goalie in murray who has been replacement level and injury prone the last 3 years and samsonov who Washington who thought so highly of let him walk for nothing. You tell me which duo I’d bet my job on, both husso/comrie and Murray/samsnov have there own risks but the husso/comrie is a better bet.

I think out of all permutations, a Husso-Samsonov combo would have been the best amount of upside, but maybe what brought Samsonov to Toronto is how Murray looked as a guy he could supplant.

So long as Samsonov is good and can prove himself and stay healthy, we don't have to worry too much about what Murray is capable of contributing.
 
You could see the game of musical chairs winding down with Husso getting traded to Detroit and Minnesota locking up Fleury ahead of free agency.
I take a longer view too, organization knew pretty early last year that Jack wasn’t coming back, and Mrazek wasn’t the answer, so that it came down to musical chairs in the off season, not the best laid plan perhaps.

Fact is, he inherited Anderson and has never really found a long term alternative during his tenure.
 

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