GDT: UFA Frenzy 2024 - We're ALL Gonna Die

[Stickpucker]

I’m wondering if Rod is having second thoughts about signing his extension given all the offseason BS going on…surely he could have gotten more money elsewhere had he chosen to do so…all of this nonsense is not exactly giving me the warm and fuzzies about the upcoming season!

Rod is always about "his guys" and his tribe.

He still has enough of his guys that I think he'll come to have new guys.

 

[NotOpie]

It’s a food thread.

They're all food threads......all the time....

Those are separate beds.

I'm getting ancient "I Love Lucy" vibes.

Did you know that Lucy and Dezi, despite being married, were required to have separate beds (1950s era TV censorship laws)? It always made me wonder where Little Ricky came from.

 

[Stickpucker]

To be fair my source has recently moved to Columbus to take on new employment opportunities, so...

Let's just say I probably won't be as well connected anymore, lol

Go get ET some coffee....we need a mole.

 

[bleedgreen]

Hmmm.....I guess I just have different experiences. As somebody who has been hired away from a current job by a competitor, you just don't talk about those negotiations or even your intentions until the deal is done and the job offer inked. There's way too many things that can upset the proverbial apple cart...not the least of which is your existing employer trying to negotiate with you to stay. That's a painful and almost always fruitless situation. So I don't take anything from Tulsky's or Rod's statements about Don's departure as anything but SOP.

Also, I listened to the entire podcast and don't recall Rod saying anything about him not liking Dundon's "negotiations". I do recall that he said he didn't like the results of not being able to keep guys he valued. And in the end, he closed that part of the conversation with a version of, "....but we all know it's a business".

I found this to actually be somewhat humorous and think that's how Rod meant it. I believe you have to pair that statement with GMET's statement about the number of phone calls he gets in a day....with a couple of dozen of them being from the owner (I'm paraphrasing here). They both know that Tom Dundon is deeply involved with the team. In the past, I believe it was Rod who said that Tom came in not knowing a great deal about hockey but how impressive it was how he had learned so much in a short period of time (that might have actually been from Don W.).

Tom Dundon might be an asshole. He might be a prick to work for. He might be a bastard to negotiate with. But he clearly loves this team and wants it to be successful. If he's doing things to harm the team, I have faith that will be communicated and, if he still wants to maintain success, he'll modify his behavior. Currently, I don't see any of these negotiations as having truly hurt the team (we can speculate about Guentzel's contract, but there's been no actual reporting other than speculative rumors). In the end, I like that a maverick owns our team, shake's up the NHL old boys network, and ultimately is invested in putting the best team possible on the ice.

Rod said something to the effect of “I get it why it happened after talking to everyone but I don’t like the way we did it.” I forget how he phrased the last part of the sentence but he used the words “not like” I thought. I didn’t take his words literally nor do I think he didn’t have some level of humor about DW being a buffer for TD. He just also sounded exasperated. I think he meant to assign humor to his comments but I saw frustration along with the humor. His comments and the way he says them go along with comments Bettman has said about TD. You don’t get the sense he’s easy to deal with. I’m not trying to create a conspiracy or make a big deal about TD. This is pretty open talk from Rod and I think it’s interesting to listen to. He’s definitely not projecting that this is fine, it’s all fine, we’re even better than we were before. He’s accepting and moving on but acknowledging we’re taking a step back. He’s not using company speak. This is why I enjoy the interview, not that I’ve uncovered the truth in a conspiracy plot.

His comment to me was pretty clearly in the context of how losing the players went. He doesn’t specify which part and I never said it was specifically about how TD negotiates. There’s some part of this that frustrated him pretty specifically, and I think it goes beyond just the loss of the players but we don’t know. I do think he’s going to accept everything and move on, he says so and there’s no reason to think otherwise.

It just seemed clear to me this summer was a blow to him and he didn’t like multiple angles of it. I don’t think it’s as simple as he lost guys and is sad. I think he would’ve kept more of them and imo thought it was possible to do so.

 

[Borsig]

Well, we should have. And it was. But you know.... Canes

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Rod is a player's coach, of course he would think and prefer to keep his current guys. Doesnt mean its reality though.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Rod is a player's coach, of course he would think and prefer to keep his current guys. Doesnt mean its reality though.

Most coaches prefer to keep "most" of their current guys. It's natural, especially when they play the way the coach wants them to.

 

[bleedgreen]

I didn’t think it was reality. I didn’t think we were going to keep the guys. I know he’s a players coach. I’m not trying to turn it into something big. It’s interesting to see honest conversations out of a coach, it doesn’t happen that often so it lends insight. That’s it. That’s all I’m saying here. My original post said people would find it interesting, I presumed we would all take different things from it, or nothing at all. There’s no need to dismiss what one person takes it from it or doesn’t.

 

[AD Skinner]

We were never going to keep all the guys that left. Brind’Amour knows that, doesn’t mean he has to like it

 

[Blueline Bomber]

The way I got it is that RBA felt that we possibly could have kept one of Skjei or Pesce if we had simply not pursued Guentzel. But obviously, Guentzel was a priority and whatever happened that soured him on us happened too late in the process to pursue our UFA defensemen

 

[the halleJOKEL]

The way I got it is that RBA felt that we possibly could have kept one of Skjei or Pesce if we had simply not pursued Guentzel. But obviously, Guentzel was a priority and whatever happened that soured him on us happened too late in the process to pursue our UFA defensemen

the thing that happened that soured him on us seems to be that tampa said they would make space and throw money at him, then they made space and threw money at him

 

[Blueline Bomber]

the thing that happened that soured him on us seems to be that tampa said they would make space and throw money at him, then they made space and threw money at him

Which, if Friedman is to be believed, only happened because we waited too long to meet his ask. Turns out 3 days before FA is probably not the best time to agree to terms for an upcoming UFA.

 

[Borsig]

Which, if Friedman is to be believed, only happened because we waited too long to meet his ask. Turns out 3 days before FA is probably not the best time to agree to terms for an upcoming UFA.

Well lowballing takes time.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Which, if Friedman is to be believed, only happened because we waited too long to meet his ask. Turns out 3 days before FA is probably not the best time to agree to terms for an upcoming UFA.

Which, if you listen to his interview in the other thread and what @hblueridgegal posted, it probably doesn't really support that narrative. I agree with her analogy that we were the rebound after a break-up with Pitt, but TB is what he wanted.

Also, the favorable tax situation helps him.

Point is, none of us know for sure. IMO, if he REALLY wanted to be here, he would be here.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Which, if you listen to his interview in the other thread and what @hblueridgegal posted, it probably doesn't really support that narrative. I agree with her analogy that we were the rebound after a break-up with Pitt, but TB is what he wanted.

Also, the favorable tax situation helps him.

Point is, none of us know for sure. IMO, if he REALLY wanted to be here, he would be here.

I'm not sure a fluff interview on a new team is the best way to gauge motive. He's going to say all the right things about Tampa and he's got no reason to bash Carolina.

Likewise, if he truly had no interest in signing with Carolina, he had no reason to string negotiations along. Clearly, the possibility that he could sign with the Canes was there. Otherwise, he'd simply inform the team "Hey, I'm heading to FA" and we wouldn't have spent time or held money to try and entice him to sign.

But we went in this circle yesterday. No need to rehash it.

 

[CandyCanes]

I'm not sure a fluff interview on a new team is the best way to gauge motive. He's going to say all the right things about Tampa and he's got no reason to bash Carolina.

Likewise, if he truly had no interest in signing with Carolina, he had no reason to string negotiations along. Clearly, the possibility that he could sign with the Canes was there. Otherwise, he'd simply inform the team "Hey, I'm heading to FA" and we wouldn't have spent time or held money to try and entice him to sign.

But we went in this circle yesterday. No need to rehash it.

He had plenty reason to string negotiations along. He’d lose a ton of negotiating power if the one team that can offer a 8 year deal drops out of the race to pursue him.

 

[cptjeff]

I'm not sure a fluff interview on a new team is the best way to gauge motive. He's going to say all the right things about Tampa and he's got no reason to bash Carolina.

Likewise, if he truly had no interest in signing with Carolina, he had no reason to string negotiations along. Clearly, the possibility that he could sign with the Canes was there. Otherwise, he'd simply inform the team "Hey, I'm heading to FA" and we wouldn't have spent time or held money to try and entice him to sign.

But we went in this circle yesterday. No need to rehash it.

What, you don't expect him to torch his relationship with the management of two different teams (because Waddell) and confess to tampering that incriminates his current team in violations of the CBA and NHL bylaws all in a welcome to the team interview?

To say that that interview proves any narrative wrong is absolutely nuts.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

If Lebrun is to be believed (which he should be in our case), Guentzel had an offer of "just under" 8 million a year on the table before the draft (weeks maybe). If guentzel gets butt hurt cuz the offer is just under 8 then he can go to Tampa with no qualms about what the management did. especially with the knowledge the management team didnt even know his ask and then immediate met it when it was given.

people who want to believe the mgmt team jacks up negotiations will just find ways to believe it.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

If Lebrun is to be believed (which he should be in our case), Guentzel had an offer of "just under" 8 million a year on the table before the draft (weeks maybe). If guentzel gets butt hurt cuz the offer is just under 8 then he can go to Tampa with no qualms about what the management did. especially with the knowledge the management team didnt even know his ask and then immediate met it when it was given.

people who want to believe the mgmt team jacks up negotiations will just find ways to believe it.

To my understanding of the situation, based off tweets from Friedman and LeBrun, Guentzel's ask was known "for a while" and the Canes were trying to sign him to "just under" that in the days leading up to the draft. They didn't meet his ask until that Thursday, and informed teams they were signing him (assuming that because they finally met his ask, it was over.) But by that point, Guentzel was so close to FA (and likely had already heard rumors about $9 million from Tampa and/or Vancouver) that he had mentally moved on from Carolina.

Do you really think they didn't know Guentzel's ask until days before FA? What were they doing in the previous 2-3 months then?

 

[MinJaBen]

If Lebrun is to be believed (which he should be in our case), Guentzel had an offer of "just under" 8 million a year on the table before the draft (weeks maybe). If guentzel gets butt hurt cuz the offer is just under 8 then he can go to Tampa with no qualms about what the management did. especially with the knowledge the management team didnt even know his ask and then immediate met it when it was given.

people who want to believe the mgmt team jacks up negotiations will just find ways to believe it.

If this were a one-off situation, I'd be inclined to believe you. But this is not the first time we seem to have under bid the negotiations. This management group seems to want to extract every penny of value out of a negotiation even if it means losing the asset. Sometimes it works and we get Nino for Rask or Burns with a lot of retention. Other times we come in second place on a transformative player.

And all of that is fine if that is what the management team wants to value for achieving their success. But it seems weird to me to have to defend their practice by ascribing sinister motivations to the players or other teams that turn us down like "San Jose was just using us" or Guentzel was "butt hurt cuz the offer is just under 8". It seems to me that these attempts to decern the motives of the other party have no more basis in facts than the rumored transaction details that the Canes supposedly put out there.

 

[Unhinged Finn]

My hot take for today:

How does Houston Lowballers sound?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

To my understanding of the situation, based off tweets from Friedman and LeBrun, Guentzel's ask was known "for a while" and the Canes were trying to sign him to "just under" that in the days leading up to the draft. They didn't meet his ask until that Thursday, and informed teams they were signing him (assuming that because they finally met his ask, it was over.) But by that point, Guentzel was so close to FA (and likely had already heard rumors about $9 million from Tampa and/or Vancouver) that he had mentally moved on from Carolina.

Do you really think they didn't know Guentzel's ask until days before FA? What were they doing in the previous 2-3 months then?

good let him go if he didnt want to be here. but the matter of it is a 7.75 million which is low to be classified as just under 8 million is 62 million. doesnt sound like he was actually serious about staying if he was insulted by an offer of 2 million less "than his ask for a while."

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I'm not sure a fluff interview on a new team is the best way to gauge motive. He's going to say all the right things about Tampa and he's got no reason to bash Carolina.

And a tweet by Friedman is to be taken as Gospel. The same guy that tweeted 24 hours earlier it was a done deal?

Likewise, if he truly had no interest in signing with Carolina, he had no reason to string negotiations along. Clearly, the possibility that he could sign with the Canes was there. Otherwise, he'd simply inform the team "Hey, I'm heading to FA" and we wouldn't have spent time or held money to try and entice him to sign.

That's not how negotiations work. He's going to get an offer from the Canes while still keeping his options open. I'm sure if a better offer didn't come along, he'd probably have signed the Canes deal, but he wasn't going to tell them no before he had such an offer. Canes were his fallback.

But we went in this circle yesterday. No need to rehash it.

Meh. You're the one who brought up Guentzel today. No other poster did until you did and then in a subsequent post, Friedman's take. If you don't want to re-hash it, that's fine.

To my understanding of the situation, based off tweets from Friedman and LeBrun, Guentzel's ask was known "for a while" and the Canes were trying to sign him to "just under" that in the days leading up to the draft. They didn't meet his ask until that Thursday, and informed teams they were signing him (assuming that because they finally met his ask, it was over.) But by that point, Guentzel was so close to FA (and likely had already heard rumors about $9 million from Tampa and/or Vancouver) that he had mentally moved on from Carolina.

Do you really think they didn't know Guentzel's ask until days before FA? What were they doing in the previous 2-3 months then?

So much for not wanting to re-hash it.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If this were a one-off situation, I'd be inclined to believe you. But this is not the first time we seem to have under bid the negotiations. This management group seems to want to extract every penny of value out of a negotiation even if it means losing the asset. Sometimes it works and we get Nino for Rask or Burns with a lot of retention. Other times we come in second place on a transformative player.

And all of that is fine if that is what the management team wants to value for achieving their success. But it seems weird to me to have to defend their practice by ascribing sinister motivations to the players or other teams that turn us down like "San Jose was just using us" or Guentzel was "butt hurt cuz the offer is just under 8". It seems to me that these attempts to decern the motives of the other party have no more basis in facts than the rumored transaction details that the Canes supposedly put out there.

That's all fair.

I think it's also fair to say that as a UFA rental who had no real ties to the Canes, he would want see what else was out there as this would be his last chance at a big contract. Just like saying he's excited about his new team is lip service, it's also lip service when players say they are open to coming back. Maybe the Canes did drag their feet. Maybe he was keeping the Canes in his back pocket as a "fallback" in something he liked better didn't come along.

We'll never know for sure, which is my main point, so we speculate; but it's the off-season, so 43.726549997% of our posts will be dedicated to discussions like this.

 

[SlavinAway]

We'll never know for sure, which is my main point, so we speculate; but it's the off-season, so 43.726549997% of our posts will be dedicated to discussions like this.

73% of statistics are completely made up but this seems way too low.