Player Discussion Tyler Seguin

[Noodletoro]

So what did you guys think overall of his play in the playoffs?

From what I saw, he was pretty much exactly what he was for the Bruins last year. One goal, a tip in Game 1, and that's it. He was setting guys up and had lots of scoring chances, he wasn't invisible, but man a guy like that, relied on to score, 37 goals in the regular season, you gotta put the puck in the net. It was the same thing last year in the playoffs with him, he didn't play badly (other than the first 6 games of the Toronto series), he was actually good, but just could not finish any of his chances. It isn't like the Ducks have some world class goalie, either, or a particularly great defense. He got chances, he was buzzing around.

He had a great regular season, put up a ton of numbers, but everybody knew he could do that and that he was going to do that. I know you guys aren't really in "win now" mode and this was a big step to even make the playoffs, but when you have his skillset, and you are the player that he is, relied on to score goals, making 6 million dollars in a salary cap era, you gotta put the puck in the net, or else you get what happened here in the first round, an exit in 6 games in a very winnable series.

I'm sure some of you hyper sensitive people that flipped out on me the last time I was here will make a ton of excuses and tell me to go away or whatever, I don't care. You can't give a guy credit for scoring 37 goals in the regular season, and then turn around and pretend it's not an issue when he's not scoring in the playoffs, even if the rest of his game is satisfactory. 2 goals in his last 28 playoff games, that's enough of a sample size to make it worth noting, especially when he is getting so many chances.

I'm sure he'll eventually pot a few and be a good playoff player, but right now it's definitely something worth talking about. I don't know if he just has trouble finding that extra gear that is needed in the playoffs, if he's just snakebitten, or what. But honestly I'm surprised, I thought he was really going to take that next big step as a player in this series, and we just didn't see it. He looked exactly like he did last year for the Bruins. And again, that's not a bad player, I'm not saying he sucks or bashing him, so for the 3 of you who I know are going to take everything I'm saying out of context and twist it into that, don't bother because I'm not going to respond to you. But it's worth talking about.

Please go away and don't come back. You know exactly what you are doing here.

 

[David Krejci*]

I feel like this is Brad Marchand and not David Krejci I'm replying to. You know there are open wounds amongst the fanbase after the type of loss we just experienced yet you just repeat the pain points (bolded) of your argument over and over and over to try to make a point. We got to where we did as a team and unfortunately we bowed out the way we did as a team. I say this in the politest possible way but my hats off to how effective of troll you are. From compliment to slap in the face to compliment to slap in the face we appreciate your input. We lost, you win, we'll keep him. Go Habs go!

I genuinely mean it when I say I am not trolling. I think everything I said was worth talking about and I was interested in what you guys thought. I am always going to be interested in Seguin's development as a player. I'm sure there are plenty of people who will want to discuss it, but if you need time to digest the loss, I respect that.

You know, if you didn't want to appear like a troll you probably would have waited at least a day or so before coming in here with your "haha, told you so, suckers" ********.

So, you've had your "told you so" moment now. Does it feel as awesome as you dreamed it would?

It's really hard to work up any serious annoyance or emotions regarding someone who is actually miffed at the idea that another fanbase could be happy with his team's cast off pieces. It just seems... petty, and unnecessary.

There isn't an ounce of my post that is an "I told you so." I knew someone would take it like that, so hats off to you for the point going completely over your head.

Right, I'm not saying he was a bad player. He was effective, had a lot of scoring chances, and was a big part of keeping the puck in the offensive zone, which is what he did in Boston as well. 2 goals in his last 28 playoff games, with lots and lots of great looks and grade A chances. 37 goals in the regular season. There's something to that. What I'm asking you guys is, what do you see in his play that you think might be the reason for this? Is it because he has trouble finding that extra gear? Is he just snakebitten, or what?

I already see people getting defensive. There is nothing wrong with criticizing your own players. I guarantee you Tyler Seguin will be saying the same thing, that he has to be better and that he's relied on to score, and he has to put the puck in the net for the team to be successful. He won't hide from it, so neither should any of you. It's okay to talk about. You guys are ridiculous.

You know, if you didn't want to appear like a troll you probably would have waited at least a day or so before coming in here with your "haha, told you so, suckers" ********.

So, you've had your "told you so" moment now. Does it feel as awesome as you dreamed it would?

It's really hard to work up any serious annoyance or emotions regarding someone who is actually miffed at the idea that another fanbase could be happy with his team's cast off pieces. It just seems... petty, and unnecessary.

Thanks for your input and not reading a word I said. Have a nice Summer.

 

[Noodletoro]

Yeah buddy I am sure you have the best intentions here telling us you just want to talk about how you think our player sucks and all. Go away troll.

 

[CorwiN]

There isn't an ounce of my post that is an "I told you so." I knew someone would take it like that, so hats off to you for the point going completely over your head.

You guys ever notice how this kind of person always resorts to the ad hominem? Total garbage that doesn't belong in any kind of supposedly civilized debate.

Sack up and admit to what you were doing.

 

[Ambassador Of Fun]

If we are going to be honest, we really coulda used a little extra something from Segs. And I'm on team Segs>Benn. Benn did not disappoint.

 

[David Krejci*]

Yeah buddy I am sure you have the best intentions here telling us you just want to talk about how you think our player sucks and all. Go away troll.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm except I didn't once say he sucks, I actually said multiple times that overall he played well. So you don't see anything wrong with his lack of finish in the playoffs? I'm asking if you see anything in his game that could be a reason for it. But if you just want to be a baby about it rather than have a civilized conversation, on a message board, that is specifically designed for discussing player development, then go right ahead.

 

[Noodletoro]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm except I didn't once say he sucks, I actually said multiple times that overall he played well. So you don't see anything wrong with his lack of finish in the playoffs? I'm asking if you see anything in his game that could be a reason for it. But if you just want to be a baby about it rather than have a civilized conversation, on a message board, that is specifically designed for discussing player development, then go right ahead.

You came in here overly antagonistic right off the bat. Don't pretend here.

 

[Zrhutch]

No, there wasn't anything wrong with his lack of finish. He was opening up opportunities for his linemates. That shows up on the scoresheet, analytics sheet, and eyeball test. Quit being naive and get out.

 

[Stars99Lobo37]

I'm sure he'll eventually pot a few and be a good playoff player, but right now it's definitely something worth talking about.

No, it really isn't. A week or maybe even a couple days down the line..sure.

But not hours after a crushing game 6 collapse, no.

 

[David Krejci*]

If we are going to be honest, we really coulda used a little extra something from Segs. And I'm not team Segs>Benn. Benn did not disappoint.

Finally, a semblance of reason and objectivity. Was there anything specific you saw in his game that you think might've been a reason for him not scoring? He looked active and had some good looks, he wasn't invisible by any stretch of the imagination. Do you think he was just snakebitten or what?

And he is at his best when he is setting guys up and using his playmaking ability, which I saw a lot of in this series. He had a lot of great set ups, even simple plays like finding Eakin tonight in the slot there no the powerplay with a short window to fit it in there. It was a weak goal to give up 5 hole like that, but it was a good play by Seguin to look off the defender and find him.

For the rest of you, it'd be one thing if you guys got blown out in 4 games, but this was a winnable series. If Seguin gave you half of the type of goal scoring he gave you in the regular season, you probably eliminate Anaheim. So why you wouldn't want to talk about why your arguable best goal scorer, didn't score goals, just screams insecurity.

 

[Starsfan24]

So why you wouldn't want to talk about why your arguable best goal scorer, didn't score goals, just screams insecurity.

Maybe in a week or so. Jesus, most of us are still shocked at the last 2 minutes and OT. It's been like an hour dude. Wait a bit.

 

[Ambassador Of Fun]

Finally, a semblance of reason and objectivity. Was there anything specific you saw in his game that you think might've been a reason for him not scoring? He looked active and had some good looks, he wasn't invisible by any stretch of the imagination. Do you think he was just snakebitten or what?

And he is at his best when he is setting guys up and using his playmaking ability, which I saw a lot of in this series. He had a lot of great set ups, even simple plays like finding Eakin tonight in the slot there no the powerplay with a short window to fit it in there. It was a weak goal to give up 5 hole like that, but it was a good play by Seguin to look off the defender and find him.

For the rest of you, it'd be one thing if you guys got blown out in 4 games, but this was a winnable series. If Seguin gave you half of the type of goal scoring he gave you in the regular season, you probably eliminate Anaheim. So why you wouldn't want to talk about why your arguable best goal scorer, didn't score goals, just screams insecurity.

He wasn't as good in transition as he was during the season. Partially bad puck luck, partially good defense, maybe partially something else. I had no issue with his playmaking in zone.

 

[David Krejci*]

No, it really isn't. A week or maybe even a couple days down the line..sure.

But not hours after a crushing game 6 collapse, no.

I don't get that at all. I mean the entire point of this message board is to do exactly what I'm doing. As a fan who suffered a crushing game 6 collapse a year ago that was a million times worse than yours, I was on here almost immediately afterwards, doing exactly what I'm doing now. Which is raising legitimate questions about players who were expected to have, could have, and should have done more. I don't know why someone would be on here, in this thread right now if they weren't ready to talk about it...

I'm sure there are people who will want to talk about it. And for those of you who don't, don't click on the thread and read two words of a post and then jump to conclusions about the rest of it.

 

[Zrhutch]

I swear to god this guy is an android with no idea what human emotion is

 

[David Krejci*]

Maybe in a week or so. Jesus, most of us are still shocked at the last 2 minutes and OT. It's been like an hour dude. Wait a bit.

Well then why are you even on here if you don't want to talk about it?? I was on here after Game 6 of the Finals last year, which was a million times worse, talking about player performance and analyzing it, and so were a ton of other people. If you don't want to, fine.

He wasn't as good in transition as he was during the season. Partially bad puck luck, partially good defense, maybe partially something else. I had no issue with his playmaking in zone.

Yeah he had some great set ups. It would have been cool to see you guys knock off the Ducks, I hate Corey Perry and I hate their stupid bland uniforms. Jamie Benn looked absolutely amazing the whole series, and part of that was due to Seguin's playmaking.

 

[TheGuyFromThere]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm except I didn't once say he sucks, I actually said multiple times that overall he played well. So you don't see anything wrong with his lack of finish in the playoffs?

Since you seem to have watched him so intently and agree he has played well excluding goals, what's your view on the issue? He's shooting 2% the past 28 playoff game but is getting great chances, what more can you ask of him other than to be luckier? Coming in claiming to have watched the games with nothing except "Why can't this player score?" and no original reasoning or analysis comes off as looking for reactions and arguments.

Also, for a team that by your own admission took a huge leap forward, bringing the top team in the west to OT in Game 6 is impressive. Stop trying to make it sound like the Stars were huge favourite who blew it all to a lottery pick team.

 

[Stars99Lobo37]

Well then why are you even on here if you don't want to talk about it?? I was on here after Game 6 of the Finals last year, which was a million times worse, talking about player performance and analyzing it, and so were a ton of other people. If you don't want to, fine.

Where do you go off telling us your situation is worse than ours? Good Lord.

Take a break and come back in a couple days when tempers and emotions are at a playoff high.

 

[SonicSpeedDash]

 

[Stars99Lobo37]

More like

 

[Brand New Stars]

For the rest of you, it'd be one thing if you guys got blown out in 4 games, but this was a winnable series. If Seguin gave you half of the type of goal scoring he gave you in the regular season, you probably eliminate Anaheim. So why you wouldn't want to talk about why your arguable best goal scorer, didn't score goals, just screams insecurity.

If this isn't trolling, I don't know what is.

 

[Henderson33]

More like

I prefer 'Confused Woywitka'

 

[David Krejci*]

Where do you go off telling us your situation is worse than ours? Good Lord.

Take a break and come back in a couple days when tempers and emotions are at a playoff high.

Well when someone says "we just suffered a Game 6 collapse" as if I have no idea what that feels like and couldn't possibly put myself in your shoes, I'm going to bring it up. I'm not going to get into a big debate about which collapse was worse, that's not what this is about. But I'm surprised you guys aren't being more critical, you deserved to be in that position you were in, it wasn't like you got blown out. You have every right to analyze who should have done more, not just Tyler Seguin, either.

Since you seem to have watched him so intently and agree he has played well excluding goals, what's your view on the issue? He's shooting 2% the past 28 playoff game but is getting great chances, what more can you ask of him other than to be luckier? Coming in claiming to have watched the games with nothing except "Why can't this player score?" and no original reasoning or analysis comes off as looking for reactions and arguments.

Also, for a team that by your own admission took a huge leap forward, bringing the top team in the west to OT in Game 6 is impressive. Stop trying to make it sound like the Stars were huge favourite who blew it all to a lottery pick team.

I'm afraid to give you my honest opinion because the frauds that are on here will just point to my fan allegiance, and disregard what I say, no matter what it is. But you asked so here it is:

I think he needs to slow the game down. I think he does have great vision, and is an incredible playmaker and can find seams and small windows to make plays that only few other players and the league can. But his offensive instincts are not on the same level as some of the other elite players in the league, and I think part of that is because he is always going 1000mph when he should sometimes pull up. Phil Kessel is a great example of what Tyler Seguin could learn from. They are scarily similar, except Phil uses his speed to back off defenseman, then pull up and create space and options for himself. I don't see Seguin do that as much as I think he should. I think Seguin's physical skills, his shot, his speed, are on par with Kessel, and in some cases, maybe even better. But Phil Kessel is an absolute scoring machine in the playoffs, and there's a reason why.

His shot is incredible, one of the best releases in the league, but he doesn't buzz around the net and pick up the garbage like a Patrick Kane does. He has in the past, like in Game 7 vs the Capitals in 2012, he scored a very greasy goal in front of the crease and it was great to see. I don't think it's because he's afraid to go to those areas or anything like that, I just don't think that's his game. But when he isn't scoring off of one timers and off of the rush, he should make more of a concerted effort to find a way to use his strength and leverage better to be a better net front presence.

Also, if you watch Patrick Kane, he does an incredible job of kind of "disappearing", and losing whoever is covering him, only to "reappear" for a second, at the perfect time for someone to find him for a one timer or cross crease type of play. Seguin has the shot to beat anyone, but if he could find a way to do this, he would put himself in position for more effective one timers, instead of the Stars relying on just moving the puck and feeding him at the left circle.

As for when he does get those chances and misses the net or puts it into a goalie's crest, I don't know what there is to say about that. That happens to everyone, but you can do things like what I posted above, when those shots aren't going in, to put yourself in better position for different types of scoring chances, or second chance opportunities.

I'm not saying they were a huge favorite or blew anything, but they deserved to be in that spot and that was a winnable series. If it was a blowout, then you could say "well no matter what we did, we were outmatched and outclassed from the get go", but that wasn't the case at all. But the fact that they were there, you should be looking at guys, not just Seguin, and figuring out why it was that they weren't able to do more.

Seguin is obviously a point of interest for me, because my team drafted him and traded him. So I have, and will always have, a rooted interest in what he develops into, because it reflects onto my general manager and my perception of the job he's doing. It's not about rubbing anything in anyone's face, I'm content with the trade. I'm not one of the idiots who booed Seguin and Peverley when they came back to Boston, I have the utmost appreciation for what they helped my team achieve in 2011. But some people see me discussing Seguin, and anytime you question anything, because I'm a Bruins fan

, I'm "dumping on him" or "rubbing it in", when not one ounce of what I was doing was anything close to that. And the people in this thread who are jumping to that conclusion after reading 0-2 sentences of my post and then fabricating stuff in their mind, are frauds. If I had made an alt and made a Stars username/icon, nobody would be saying anything like they are to me right now.

 

[Ambassador Of Fun]

Well when someone says "we just suffered a Game 6 collapse" as if I have no idea what that feels like and couldn't possibly put myself in your shoes, I'm going to bring it up. I'm not going to get into a big debate about which collapse was worse, that's not what this is about. But I'm surprised you guys aren't being more critical, you deserved to be in that position you were in, it wasn't like you got blown out. You have every right to analyze who should have done more, not just Tyler Seguin, either.



I'm afraid to give you my honest opinion because the frauds that are on here will just point to my fan allegiance, and disregard what I say, no matter what it is. But you asked so here it is:

I think he needs to slow the game down. I think he does have great vision, and is an incredible playmaker and can find seams and small windows to make plays that only few other players and the league can. But his offensive instincts are not on the same level as some of the other elite players in the league. His shot is incredible, one of the best releases in the league, but he doesn't buzz around the net and pick up the garbage like a Patrick Kane does. He has in the past, like in Game 7 vs the Capitals in 2012, he scored a very greasy goal in front of the crease and it was great to see. I don't think it's because he's afraid to go to those areas or anything like that, I just don't think that's his game. But when he isn't scoring off of one timers and off of the rush, he should make more of a concerted effort to find a way to use his strength and leverage better to be a better net front presence.

Also, if you watch Patrick Kane, he does an incredible job of kind of "disappearing", and losing whoever is covering him, only to "reappear" for a second, at the perfect time for someone to find him for a one timer or cross crease type of play. Seguin has the shot to beat anyone, but if he could find a way to do this, he would put himself in position for more effective one timers, instead of the Stars relying on just moving the puck and feeding him at the left circle.

As for when he does get those chances and misses the net or puts it into a goalie's crest, I don't know what there is to say about that. That happens to everyone, but you can do things like what I posted above, when those shots aren't going in, to put yourself in better position for different types of scoring chances, or second chance opportunities.

I'm not saying they were a huge favorite or blew anything, but they deserved to be in that spot and that was a winnable series. If it was a blowout, then you could say "well no matter what we did, we were outmatched and outclassed from the get go", but that wasn't the case at all. But the fact that they were there, you should be looking at guys, not just Seguin, and figuring out why it was that they weren't able to do more.

Seguin is obviously a point of interest for me, because my team drafted him and traded him. So I have, and will always have, a rooted interest in what he develops into, because it reflects onto my general manager and my perception of the job he's doing. It's not about rubbing anything in anyone's face, I'm content with the trade. I'm not one of the idiots who booed Seguin and Peverley when they came back to Boston, I have the utmost appreciation for what they helped my team achieve in 2011. But some people see me discussing Seguin, and anytime you question anything, because I'm a Bruins fan

, I'm "dumping on him" or "rubbing it in", when not one ounce of what I was doing was anything close to that. And the people in this thread who are jumping to that conclusion after reading 0-2 sentences of my post and then fabricating stuff in their mind, are frauds. If I had made an alt and made a Stars username/icon, nobody would be saying anything like they are to me right now.

The one thing I have to say on this sort of issue is that this was his first instance as "the guy". And from what I've seen from him this year, this sort of criticism inspires him to play better. He started the year off on fire, he was even better after not being named to Team Canada. He seems to love to have the "**** the haters" attitude.

I don't think he is in the top 5 (hell maybe even 10) of who we should be focusing on improving their game or complaining about, though he certainly could have given more this series.

 

[oconnor9sean]

Well when someone says "we just suffered a Game 6 collapse" as if I have no idea what that feels like and couldn't possibly put myself in your shoes, I'm going to bring it up. I'm not going to get into a big debate about which collapse was worse, that's not what this is about. But I'm surprised you guys aren't being more critical, you deserved to be in that position you were in, it wasn't like you got blown out. You have every right to analyze who should have done more, not just Tyler Seguin, either.



I'm afraid to give you my honest opinion because the frauds that are on here will just point to my fan allegiance, and disregard what I say, no matter what it is. But you asked so here it is:

I think he needs to slow the game down. I think he does have great vision, and is an incredible playmaker and can find seams and small windows to make plays that only few other players and the league can. But his offensive instincts are not on the same level as some of the other elite players in the league, and I think part of that is because he is always going 1000mph when he should sometimes pull up. Phil Kessel is a great example of what Tyler Seguin could learn from. They are scarily similar, except Phil uses his speed to back off defenseman, then pull up and create space and options for himself. I don't see Seguin do that as much as I think he should. I think Seguin's physical skills, his shot, his speed, are on par with Kessel, and in some cases, maybe even better. But Phil Kessel is an absolute scoring machine in the playoffs, and there's a reason why.

His shot is incredible, one of the best releases in the league, but he doesn't buzz around the net and pick up the garbage like a Patrick Kane does. He has in the past, like in Game 7 vs the Capitals in 2012, he scored a very greasy goal in front of the crease and it was great to see. I don't think it's because he's afraid to go to those areas or anything like that, I just don't think that's his game. But when he isn't scoring off of one timers and off of the rush, he should make more of a concerted effort to find a way to use his strength and leverage better to be a better net front presence.

Also, if you watch Patrick Kane, he does an incredible job of kind of "disappearing", and losing whoever is covering him, only to "reappear" for a second, at the perfect time for someone to find him for a one timer or cross crease type of play. Seguin has the shot to beat anyone, but if he could find a way to do this, he would put himself in position for more effective one timers, instead of the Stars relying on just moving the puck and feeding him at the left circle.

As for when he does get those chances and misses the net or puts it into a goalie's crest, I don't know what there is to say about that. That happens to everyone, but you can do things like what I posted above, when those shots aren't going in, to put yourself in better position for different types of scoring chances, or second chance opportunities.

I'm not saying they were a huge favorite or blew anything, but they deserved to be in that spot and that was a winnable series. If it was a blowout, then you could say "well no matter what we did, we were outmatched and outclassed from the get go", but that wasn't the case at all. But the fact that they were there, you should be looking at guys, not just Seguin, and figuring out why it was that they weren't able to do more.

Seguin is obviously a point of interest for me, because my team drafted him and traded him. So I have, and will always have, a rooted interest in what he develops into, because it reflects onto my general manager and my perception of the job he's doing. It's not about rubbing anything in anyone's face, I'm content with the trade. I'm not one of the idiots who booed Seguin and Peverley when they came back to Boston, I have the utmost appreciation for what they helped my team achieve in 2011. But some people see me discussing Seguin, and anytime you question anything, because I'm a Bruins fan

, I'm "dumping on him" or "rubbing it in", when not one ounce of what I was doing was anything close to that. And the people in this thread who are jumping to that conclusion after reading 0-2 sentences of my post and then fabricating stuff in their mind, are frauds. If I had made an alt and made a Stars username/icon, nobody would be saying anything like they are to me right now.

Well shoot, since you know it all, we should just fire Lindy Ruff and let you be our head coach.

 

[SolidusAKA]

Its funny how, on this night, Im more annoyed by a bruins fan than a ducks fan.