Player Discussion Tyler Seguin
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glovesave_35
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**** yes.
I'm happy that Detroit is back in the east. I always respected them and how they did their thing, now it doesn't really effect us as much. Go Red Wings
You can't be an all time great if you don't have a ring, if that's what you mean.
With different sports, it's obviously varying. Hockey is such a team game, but still. All the true greats have Cups. QB, if you don't have a ring, you aren't even in the conversation. Basketball, the NBA is such an individual superstar driven league, if you don't have a ring, you aren't even in the conversation. Baseball is maybe the one where I would make an exception, especially for a pitcher. But even still, most of the greats have rings.
It's definitely a black mark on your resume if you don't win a championship. I wouldn't say it invalidates an entire career, but someone will all the stats and no ring, I'm going to look at and say, "So what?". And especially for fans, I think it's sad when fans celebrate a player winning a Hart trophy or something. Before the Red Sox and Bruins won, and it was heartbreak after heartbreak every year, I couldn't care less about regular season or individual achievements, I don't know how anyone can. That's why I don't understand when there's a 50 page thread celebrating someone hitting 50 goals or something, or winning a Hart trophy or an Art Ross. Who cares??? You don't get a parade for that.
If you're a true leader, face of a franchise type of player, and you play 20 or so years in the NHL, I think it's fair to use whether or not they have a Cup as a big part of an argument towards how great of a player they are. It's not as much of a black mark if they play great in the playoffs (and that isn't always numbers. Ovechkin has the numbers in the playoffs, yet the last time they were in the playoffs he was benched because the coach didn't trust him on the ice. What the **** kind of a great player gets benched to benefit his team?????? They don't.) He's a great talent, he's not a great player. There are dozens of players I would take on my team over Ovechkin.
But for people like Ovechkin, the Sedins, etc. They aren't going to lose any sleep when their careers are over and they don't win a Cup. If Jarome Iginla doesn't win a Cup, I think it will eat him alive for the rest of his life. Dan Marino, it clearly eats away at him, he's flipped out on national TV about it more than once, lol. It ate away at Cam Neely, though his career was cut drastically short by a cheap shot from that POS organization in PA. Don't get me started on that. At least Cam has a ring now, and had a huge part in it as a member of the Bruins front office.
RastaRockett
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- Apr 12, 2013
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**** yes.
I'm happy that Detroit is back in the east. I always respected them and how they did their thing, now it doesn't really effect us as much. Go Red Wings
I've always had a soft spot for Datsyuk and we have Nill now so I'll be rooting for them.
glovesave_35
Name
It doesn't matter if it "eats at a guy" for not winning one, he still never won one. Dan Marino is one of the best football players of all time. End of story. That may invalidate his career in some way to you but most people would agree with me, championship or no championship.
The only sport I will really get down on a guy for not winning one is basketball due to the impact one person can have on a team and a game. Hockey, football, baseball all fall under "team game" and just can't be looked at similarly.
No matter if Iginla wins a Cup or not it won't change anything that he has been or accomplished in his career. Late career Cups by guys who already had great careers adds just a smidge to their legacy. If Ray Bourque never went to a good team to win his Cup nobody would care, he would still be one of the best defensemen of all time.
glovesave_35
Name
Marino might be "one of" the greatest, but he's not even in the conversation for the greatest. He's just not. Top 10. If you want to say he had the greatest arm, or the strongest arm, or whatever. Fine. But that doesn't make him the greatest Quarterback.
It's
Montana/Brady in a class of their own.
then the next tier is guys like Elway, Favre, Aikman, Manning (Manning could've put himself in the top tier discussion if he didn't completely piss all over himself in the Super Bowl and actually won the thing), etc. Then in the next tier is guys like Marino, and whoever else you want to put in there. So yes, he's "one of" the greatest of all time, but he's not in the conversation for greatest. I don't see how you can give a guy credit and glory for stats in the regular season, and then not hold him accountable when he doesn't have the same success in the playoffs.
Nobody is saying Iginla would suck without a Cup. But it will be "Jarome Iginla was a great player, BUT...." Same thing with Bourque. It would've been "He was one of the greatest of all time, BUT...." and that's a big but. A Cup definitely adds more than a smidge, it's the entire reason why you play the games. It is literally the entire point of the NHL.
If you're asking me, I'd rather be a guy like Tomas Holmstrom, than Pavel Bure.
RastaRockett
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- Apr 12, 2013
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Players play, and teams win. I feel like I'm watching BSPN right now, not one player can win a cup by themselves. What does this have to do with Seguin again?
Seguin already has a cup, chalk him up there with the all time greats.
Seguin already has a cup, chalk him up there with the all time greats.
Not what I'm saying at all, but okay. Thank you for taking everything that we're saying completely out of context, your contributions have been of tremendous worth.
RastaRockett
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- Apr 12, 2013
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Oh, I thought we were talking about Seguin in the Seguin thread, my bad.
Now, if only Tim Tebow had a cup...
Rune Forumwalker
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- May 11, 2006
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It's a team accomplishment. It's like that in all sports. If it wasn't LA would have won a Cup with Gretz.
I'm confused. There's so much talk about the 2013 Bruins on the Tyler Seguin thread in the Dallas forum. We don't care how he performed last year or how Boston judges him. That's the whole point of the joke.
Sorry we don't give your team enough props on our board. I guarantee you it's 10x more than Bruins fans give the Stars on yours.
Sorry we don't give your team enough props on our board. I guarantee you it's 10x more than Bruins fans give the Stars on yours.
So when someone loses, it's a team accomplishment and they can't be blamed for playing badly. But if they win, then they're allotted all the glory and magazine covers and legacy?
I've made it clear that there are obviously other factors that come into play. But to dismiss it as just a team accomplishment, and abscond certain players of any and all criticism, when if they win they're given all the credit and face time, is inconsistent and lame and it happens all the time.
But this thread isn't about that, I regret even bringing up the football thing because I knew it would turn into this.
Not even close to what I was saying but okay. And clearly you do care about what he did last year since there are boatloads of icons of him drinking beer in a mocking fashion and every time he does anything it's "ohhhh what an alcoholic, he doesn't care about hockey at all!! party party party!!". I don't care if you give the Bruins props, that isn't at all what I was saying. As a mod you should do your due diligence and read before commenting. It's okay for some other idiots to skip over the point and blindly throw ish against the wall, but you're supposed to be better than that. I've been more than peaceful and reasonable, even living up to HFBoard's ridiculous standards when it comes to discussing opposing teams on other boards, so I'm not sure why there's so aggression coming at me.
Stars99Lobo37
Registered User
My post was hardly aggressive towards you. I was replying to what you were saying a few pages ago, sorry if I didn't clarify. Me being a mod has nothing to do with this conversation, but thanks for the ad hominem?
I don't think you quite understand the jokes. It's a response to SOME Bruins fans reaction to everything Seguin does. Those replies include a million references to last year's playoffs, 3-2-1, off ice behavior, etc. The same thing you keep quoting in your posts as well. Why should we care about those things though? The fact that no discussion can exist on HF General without those things being brought up against Tyler is why the joke formed and exists.
Sure maybe there's a few people who just want to gloat, but as has been mentioned multiple times here, most of us thought it was an even hockey trade and holds no ill will against the Bruins. You come in here so sensitive to how our reaction to the trade undermines Boston or criticizes Chiarelli. You start arguing with some of our members about the value of championships and contributions to that, clearly referring to Tyler's time in Boston. How exactly is that no what you're talking about again?
RastaRockett
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- Apr 12, 2013
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Alright, winning the Stanley Cup is good, got it. Why are you here again? Maybe you should start a Seguin thread on the BRUINS board. Besides, you're not even discussing Seguin at this point, you keep bringing up Iginla, Dan Marino, Peyton Manning, Ovechkin, etc... about winning championships. Maybe at one point this stemmed from some Bruins topic about the Bruins trying to win the cup.
Like I said, Seguin has a cup. Now Seguin is in Dallas. Do Stars fans invade the Boston board to talk about the Stars a lot?
Like I said, Seguin has a cup. Now Seguin is in Dallas. Do Stars fans invade the Boston board to talk about the Stars a lot?
No I don't. That was in relation to the inconsistency of people pumping up the fact that the Bruins were stupid for trading, or "giving up on" Tyler Seguin because of his predictable regular season numbers, while ignoring that they haven't missed a beat without him.
The people who bring that up in every discussion are idiots, so who cares what they think anyways? And I'm not sensitive to it, I'm not on some crusade to make everyone fellaté the Bruins, I was saying that I don't understand it. The championship thing was started by someone else when they brought up the Joe Thornton trade, which isn't even close to a comparable to the Tyler Seguin trade. Tyler Seguin was a better Bruin than Thornton ever was, and all of the criticism that Seguin gets for "disappearing" in the playoffs, should go to Thornton. Thornton does get his share of criticism for disappearing in the playoffs, but he deserves even more, whereas Tyler doesn't deserve nearly the amount he gets. I was just responding to others, I didn't start with the championship thing or the Joe Thornton thing.
Actually everyone else brought all of them up, or opened up the discussions on them. I was just answering their questions because that's what you do on a discussion forum. Most of us can do it in a civilized manner without getting our jimmies rustled, but if you can't, that's fine too.
SonicSpeedDash
All bets are off
RastaRockett
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- Apr 12, 2013
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Alright man, at this point you are just blabbing a bunch of pointless Bruins garbage and defending yourself as the good Bruins fan. You come over here with your jimmies rustled over some Stars jokes about Seguin. Guess what? You're on the STARS board. You came on here with this ridiculously long essay about your perspective of Tyler Seguin from a Bruins fan and since then you have turned this thread into the same discussion that you can find everywhere on this website throughout the Bruins board, main board, and Stars board. It's completely off topic and now we are comparing Thornton as a Bruin to Seguin as a Bruin.
BRUINS, BRUINS, BRUINS! Rah rah rah!
BRUINS, BRUINS, BRUINS! Rah rah rah!
Stars99Lobo37
Registered User
Okay so I can't come on the Stars board and have a rational discussion because you can't handle it...? And I should just ignore the other people (not you) that bring up Joe Thornton because...you don't like it or something? Okayyyyyy bud. And why you're using the fact that my initial post was long as some sort of negative against me, I don't understand. If you actually read it you would see how ignorant you're making yourself look, and complaining about I don't even know what.
RastaRockett
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- Apr 12, 2013
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I'm just saying, we've had this "rational" discussion with Bruins fans 1000 times before. It's the same stupid conversation every time. Do you see Stars fans going to the Bruins board all the time to have a "rational" discussion about Smith and Eriksson? I wouldn't know, I don't read the Bruins board often. I know I've forgot about them.
I'm sick of Bruins fans talking about Seguin!
Stars99Lobo37
Registered User
They can't even have a rational discussion about Smith and Eriksson without going crazy on Seguin on their own board. God knows what it would be like if our fans went over there.
They've already had to threaten banning Bruin posters that bring up Seguin in the Eriksson thread.
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