Player Discussion Tyler Seguin

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I'm just saying that it means nothing if you don't replicate that success in the playoffs. 1 seed or 16 seed, as long as you get in, that's all that matters. If the Bruins go to the Finals and lose, they went home with the same thing as everyone but the Cup winner, which is nothing. You're either first, or you're last. There's the champion and there's everyone else. You play to win the game.

Boston was not there 5 years ago. Dallas is not there now.

If we upset, and it would be a pretty big upset for a team some predicted to finish dead last in the Central, Anaheim then it will be just extra for an already great season for our franchise. We'll go home, no matter when we do, with some great experiences and lessons that will only help us when we do reach the point the Bruins are.

Boston is on a different level right now, as I said earlier. You can view these playoffs like you stated. I don't blame you. I hope we get there one day. But we're not and I think most of Stars fans are just going to enjoy the ride as long as possible.
 
I think this might be overstated a little bit or even a lot. I don't see much on this board about your GM being dumb or making a huge mistake. When there is a thread on the main board it descends into madness almost immediately because it fills up with third party yahoos, then defensive bruins fans, then defensive Stars fans.



This is a new one for me, it was my understanding that he was always a dynamic offensive center before he was drafted and then was never given the opportunity to play that role in Boston?



Is anyone saying this anywhere on the Dallas board? As others have said, our jokes are a response to the party line hooey that came out of the media following the trade. I apologize if Stars fans are in fact running to your board and smack talking about it but I would be very surprised if that was the case.
Nobody has come right out and said that directly, but that's just the inference I get from the way people talk about it, that's all. Maybe I'm just an idiot and am misinterpreting it, wouldn't be the first time.

He was a dynamic offensive center, but he was comfortable enough on the wing to put up 30 goals in his second regular season and was on pace for more than that if the lockout didn't cut the third year short. He was not ever going to be a center for the Bruins, with Bergeron and Krejci in front of him. Maybe in 10 years when Bergeron retires or something, but not any time in the immediate future. When they drafted him, they had him in mind as a winger.

As for the third thing, like I said nobody has said it directly, but just from what I've seen, I feel like a lot of the comments over the course of the year (on the Stars board, I'm sure on the main board there are probably people saying that, but the main board is a cesspool so I don't take anything anyone there says seriously either way) could be interpreted that way. I came her every now and then throughout the regular season just to see what you guys thought of Seguin and his development as a player and stuff, and a lot of it was positive, but there was some of that other stuff, which is why I commented on it. And I'm not even bashing you for it, I'm saying I don't understand it.


Yeah I can't remember a single Stars fan laughing at Chiarelli and calling him stupid; that's all 3rd party/neutral fans on the main boards. Were too busy being happy about what we got to give two ***** about the Bruins and their future.
Yeah like I said, nobody has come right out and said that directly, but that's just the inference I get from the way people talk about it, that's all. Maybe I'm just an idiot and am misinterpreting it, wouldn't be the first time. And I'm sure on the main board there are probably people saying that, but the main board is a cesspool so I don't take anything anyone there says seriously either way.
 
Jokes have a shelf life and personally, this one stopped being funny about 25 games ago.

However, the origin of the jokes is many Bruins fans posting here. Maybe the rational Bruins fans outweigh the witless ones 4-1, but judging by the various Tyler Seguin threads on the main boards and the ones about Loui/Seguin on the Boston board I have serious doubts.

On a side note, claiming that you care only about the playoffs and nothing in the regular season matters is complete BS. The playoffs are "real" hockey, but you have to get there. The regular season does matter. How a player is utilized matters. I realize Bergeron and Krejci are awesome but you can't play Seguin with guys like Kaspars freaking Daugavins, Danny Paille, and Chris Kelly and expect much more than what he gave you (you being the general you).

Cue the stories, the trade, the behind the scenes videos on the official site, the smear campaign as a whole. Then comes the season, he plays great (but against the wrong teams), then he plays great against the right kind of teams (but doesn't have a 50 game point streak), blah blah blah. It gets really boring to talk about.

I personally wish all the back and forth bull*** would just die. I wish the jokes would die. I wish people here would just live in the moment and enjoy our 22 and 24 year old superstars. I wish Boston fans would stop telling us how bad Loui is (he's not), how great Reilly Smith is (we know), and in general just stop telling us how to be. When the trade happened I was all set to root for Loui and the Bruins, then the season started and the **** parade started on him from B's fans, then the Seguin stuff, etc. Now, I find myself gladly rooting for Detroit to upset Boston. If they can't beat the Bruins I'll root for the next team to do it.

Two tomes in 1-2 pages. Bleh. In the immortal words of Dave Tippett: **** me.
 
The jokes started a couple months back when a thread on the main board about Seguin turned into a bunch of people basically trying to make the arguement that seguin was bad because he was scoring too many points in single games. Our jokes have nothing to do with implications of the Bruins. They're mocking idiots on the main boards.
 
Boston was not there 5 years ago. Dallas is not there now.

If we upset, and it would be a pretty big upset for a team some predicted to finish dead last in the Central, Anaheim then it will be just extra for an already great season for our franchise. We'll go home, no matter when we do, with some great experiences and lessons that will only help us when we do reach the point the Bruins are.

Boston is on a different level right now, as I said earlier. You can view these playoffs like you stated. I don't blame you. I hope we get there one day. But we're not and I think most of Stars fans are just going to enjoy the ride as long as possible.

2009 seems like such a long time ago, but the Bruins were supposed Cup contenders that year, the loss to the Hurricanes was a massive failure on their part and is the closest I've come to crying while sitting in an arena after a sporting event. That was worse than the Flyers loss in 2010 for me, because they had such a good/promising team that year.

But I know what you mean and I understand your point.
 
We should just hug it out after a long night of beer and partying.

And end these shenanigans.
 
I agree with everything you said up until you brought up Joe Thornton and flourishing. Joe Thornton has put up a ton of points in the regular season, that means absolutely nothing to us. Could not care less about what he has done as an individual. Trading Joe Thornton after consistent regular season success and annual playoff failure (HE was a true disappearing act for the Bruins in the playoffs, not Seguin. He deserves all the flack in the world for his play as a Bruin, and all of the times he lit up the regular season only to be 0s across the board in the playoffs and a first round exit every single year) lead to a residual effect and a regime change that won us 1 Cup so far and has positioned us for many legitimate Cup contending seasons from now until a long time. Meanwhile he has gone to San Jose and done the exact same thing, great regular season performances, playoff no shows and failures. Hasn't even come CLOSE to even sniffing a Cup.

Is there something in the Boston water that creates poor memory or is being disingenuous part of the New England culture?

18 year old Thornton had 7 points in 55 regular season games, and then 0 in the playoffs. Expecting much from that player is ridiculous.

19 year old Thornton had 9 points in 11 playoff games.

Two seasons missing the playoffs.

22 year old Thornton had 6 points in 6 playoff games.

23 year old Thornton had 3 in 5 games.

24 year old Thornton had 0 points in 7 games.


No extended playoff runs can have many causes, but claiming Thornton had zeroes across the board in the playoffs a bunch of times is insanity.
 
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Jokes have a shelf life and personally, this one stopped being funny about 25 games ago.

However, the origin of the jokes is many Bruins fans posting here. Maybe the rational Bruins fans outweigh the witless ones 4-1, but judging by the various Tyler Seguin threads on the main boards and the ones about Loui/Seguin on the Boston board I have serious doubts.

On a side note, claiming that you care only about the playoffs and nothing in the regular season matters is complete BS. The playoffs are "real" hockey, but you have to get there. The regular season does matter. How a player is utilized matters. I realize Bergeron and Krejci are awesome but you can't play Seguin with guys like Kaspars freaking Daugavins, Danny Paille, and Chris Kelly and expect much more than what he gave you (you being the general you).

Cue the stories, the trade, the behind the scenes videos on the official site, the smear campaign as a whole. Then comes the season, he plays great (but against the wrong teams), then he plays great against the right kind of teams (but doesn't have a 50 game point streak), blah blah blah. It gets really boring to talk about.

I personally wish all the back and forth bull*** would just die. I wish the jokes would die. I wish people here would just live in the moment and enjoy our 22 and 24 year old superstars. I wish Boston fans would stop telling us how bad Loui is (he's not), how great Reilly Smith is (we know), and in general just stop telling us how to be. When the trade happened I was all set to root for Loui and the Bruins, then the season started and the **** parade started on him from B's fans, then the Seguin stuff, etc. Now, I find myself gladly rooting for Detroit to upset Boston. If they can't beat the Bruins I'll root for the next team to do it.

Two tomes in 1-2 pages. Bleh. In the immortal words of Dave Tippett: **** me.
I agree that it stopped being funny a while ago and that the main boards people are idiots.

You have to get there, but you can't knight someone great because they are awesome in the regular season and then ignore it and say it's a team game when they suck in the playoffs (not talking about Seguin here, he didn't "suck" in the playoffs, here I'm talking about people like Thornton, Ovechkin, etc.)

As far as playing Seguin with Daugavins, Kelly, etc. Seguin played himself off of that line in the Toronto series. They got by in the first 4 games without him, but in 5 and 6, they needed him and he was nowhere to be found. Then in Game 7 they took him off that 2nd line and he was good, and he was good for the rest of the playoffs, even though the goals weren't there. Just like I thought Jagr was good for the rest of the playoffs, even though the goals weren't there.

You don't get to where they got to, even though they didn't win it all, without everyone playing well, there can't be any weak links, or you'll lose. They demolished the Rangers in 5 games, and then absolutely eviscerated ****tsburgh in 4 games, and played a very very competitive series with the Hawks. The opportunities to score were there for Seguin when he was playing with those guys, he had a lot of great scoring chances, and didn't bury them.

He had some nice set ups, so he wasn't invisible by any stretch, and he played a good third line role for them, backchecking and playing good defense. The criticism about his overall play in those playoffs after the Toronto series is greatly unwarranted and ignorant, but the criticism about him not finishing his chances, is not.

And I agree with the rest of what you said.
 
Is there something in the Boston water that creates poor memory or is being disingenuous part of the New England culture?

18 year old Thornton had 7 points in 55 regular season games, and then 0 in the playoffs. Expecting much from that player is ridiculous.

19 year old Thornton had 9 points in 11 playoff games.

Two season missing the playoffs.

22 year old Thornton had 6 points in 6 playoff games.

23 year old Thornton had 3 in 5 games.

24 year old Thornton had 0 points in 7 games.


No extended playoff runs can have many causes, but claiming Thornton had zeroes across the board in the playoffs a bunch of times is insanity.
Zeros across the board was a metaphor. You aren't a Bruins fan so I don't expect you to remember how he played those series or even those games, but let me tell you, I sure as **** do, and so does everyone else in Boston, and for all of the wrong reasons. Joe Thornton is an absolute BUM in every sense of the word. When you look at the numbers there, they aren't that glaring, except for the last one, obviously. But there were some serious uninspired efforts in those years, the numbers don't even begin to tell the story. Serious failures, #1 seeds after #1 seeds, choking away leads routinely, losing twice to horrible 8 seeded Montreal teams including blowing a 3-1 series lead. It makes me want to throw up just thinking about it. That's what Joe Thornton is, numbers. And I couldn't be happier to have moved on from him.

He has done nothing to prove the Bruins wrong for trading him. They could've gotten more for him than Sturm, Stuart, and Primeau, but it lead to drafting guys like Krejci and Lucic, and it has worked out for them, so I don't care.
 
Zeros across the board was a metaphor. You aren't a Bruins fan so I don't expect you to remember how he played those series or even those games, but let me tell you, I sure as **** do, and so does everyone else in Boston, and for all of the wrong reasons. Joe Thornton is an absolute BUM in every sense of the word. When you look at the numbers there, they aren't that glaring, except for the last one, obviously. But there were some serious uninspired efforts in those years, the numbers don't even begin to tell the story. Serious failures, #1 seeds after #1 seeds, choking away leads routinely, losing twice to horrible 8 seeded Montreal teams including blowing a 3-1 series lead. It makes me want to throw up just thinking about it. That's what Joe Thornton is, numbers. And I couldn't be happier to have moved on from him.

He has done nothing to prove the Bruins wrong for trading him. They could've gotten more for him than Sturm, Stuart, and Primeau, but it lead to drafting guys like Krejci and Lucic, and it has worked out for them, so I don't care.

#1 seeds failing year after year likely has a lot to do with coaching, as well as a bazillion other factors. You're right though, I wasn't watching because I didn't care. Kind of like I don't care now unless Boston is the only team playing and I don't feel like going out for the evening and there's nothing interesting on History channel.
 
#1 seeds failing year after year likely has a lot to do with coaching, as well as a bazillion other factors. You're right though, I wasn't watching because I didn't care. Kind of like I don't care now unless Boston is the only team playing and I don't feel like going out for the evening and there's nothing interesting on History channel.

It has a lot to do with everything, but I'm telling you as a fan who watched all of those games all of those years, that a lot of it was on him, and the Bruins do not miss Joe Thornton one bit. Tyler Seguin was a much better player for the Bruins in the playoffs than Joe Thornton ever was, and that was in a reduced role, and also not scoring like he should have.
 
Nobody has come right out and said that directly, but that's just the inference I get from the way people talk about it, that's all. Maybe I'm just an idiot and am misinterpreting it, wouldn't be the first time.

You are not an idiot but you are misinterpreting it.

Also Seguin stinks alcohol.

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Nobody has come right out and said that directly, but that's just the inference I get from the way people talk about it, that's all. Maybe I'm just an idiot and am misinterpreting it, wouldn't be the first time.

He was a dynamic offensive center, but he was comfortable enough on the wing to put up 30 goals in his second regular season and was on pace for more than that if the lockout didn't cut the third year short. He was not ever going to be a center for the Bruins, with Bergeron and Krejci in front of him. Maybe in 10 years when Bergeron retires or something, but not any time in the immediate future. When they drafted him, they had him in mind as a winger.

As for the third thing, like I said nobody has said it directly, but just from what I've seen, I feel like a lot of the comments over the course of the year (on the Stars board, I'm sure on the main board there are probably people saying that, but the main board is a cesspool so I don't take anything anyone there says seriously either way) could be interpreted that way. I came her every now and then throughout the regular season just to see what you guys thought of Seguin and his development as a player and stuff, and a lot of it was positive, but there was some of that other stuff, which is why I commented on it. And I'm not even bashing you for it, I'm saying I don't understand it.



Yeah like I said, nobody has come right out and said that directly, but that's just the inference I get from the way people talk about it, that's all. Maybe I'm just an idiot and am misinterpreting it, wouldn't be the first time. And I'm sure on the main board there are probably people saying that, but the main board is a cesspool so I don't take anything anyone there says seriously either way.

honestly the consensus around here, especially with the old guard posters, is that it was a really fair hockey trade. i can't think of one person in this forum that has bashed GMPC. Not saying it hasn't happened but I am here almost every day. would have seen it if it was prevalent.

the jokes are targeted at a specific recurring critique of seguin that says he shows up for multi point games and then goes dry. MetalGod debunked that claim with statistics pretty hands down to no avail. the people standing by that claim though were league-wide fans, some bruins but others as well.

we are happy with the trade. boston seems to be too. wheeeeeeeee!
 
Perfect line. Well done.

I have nothing bad to say about Seguin, and honestly wish him the best, because I'm comfortable with the team that the Bruins have and I don't think they need Seguin. I'm just saying as a word of caution, you're all going to look like idiots if Seguin never leads you to a Cup and the Bruins win it even if Seguin was addition by subtraction. I said the same thing about Vancouver fans who were so cocky pre 2011, you're just setting yourselves up for failure by being so outspoken.
Just want to make a point about this...

Even if we dont win a cup with Seguin, we still wont look like idiots. The trade makes sense every day day of the week in every context for the Stars. If every move was based on winning the cup or not, literally 29 teams make only bad moves every year.

How the Bruins or Stars do has no bearing on this trades judgement when talking about how this trade worked for Dallas. Seguin improves the team that it was before. Beyond that, the two teams have nothing to worry about in terms of each others success. Unless we meet in the SCF
 
Just want to make a point about this...

Even if we dont win a cup with Seguin, we still wont look like idiots. The trade makes sense every day day of the week in every context for the Stars. If every move was based on winning the cup or not, literally 29 teams make only bad moves every year.

How the Bruins or Stars do has no bearing on this trades judgement when talking about how this trade worked for Dallas. Seguin improves the team that it was before. Beyond that, the two teams have nothing to worry about in terms of each others success. Unless we meet in the SCF

It wouldn't make it a bad move, but the whole point of making moves is to advance your team toward one goal, the Cup. There's nothing to gloat about other than the Cup. Some of these clowns who gloat about Ovechkin scoring 5 billion goals in a season, blah blah blah. The Cup validates everything, it's not the other way around. The Cup trumps all.

The "look like idiots" was referring to dumping on the Bruins because of Seguin's regular season success, which ultimately doesn't really matter. But I was mistaken in interpreting you guys anyway, you weren't doing that, so.

It's more about the fans, than the actual teams. Fans want to say their team won the trade. Like Leaf fans after the Kessel trade, they got the best player in the deal, so that was their argument for winning the trade. Well when the Bruins won the Cup two years later, that trumps every single goal Kessel will ever score for the Leafs.

Not winning the Cup doesn't mean you made bad moves, it means you didn't make enough moves, or the right moves, not just that year, but the years leading up to it. The Stars didn't acquire Seguin just to improve their team, they acquired him to be the face of the franchise for the next 10+ years and to lead them to Stanley Cups.

Sadly, my football team is the Denver Broncos. When they went and threw 20+ million dollars a year at Peyton Manning, they didn't do it just to improve the team from Tim Tebow. They did it to win Super Bowls. If Peyton Manning retires without winning any Super Bowls for the Denver Broncos, especially if he loses in pathetic fashion like the last two years, that will be considered a failure of a move. It made them good, but not good enough. Different sports, and I don't want to get into it too in depth because I'll end up writing a novel that nobody will probably read, but the analogy works.
 
dude chill.

It's alright. Some people can't have a rational discussion, and that's fine. I think I've been as level headed and fair as you could ask an opposing fan to be, and I've been open to everyone and replying to everyone, and pretty much everyone has been great about it. This is HFBoards, logic and reason can not always be expected from everyone, lol.
 
Although I am not a senior member of this board, I think perhaps we got along better when we were all pessimistic and downtrodden
 
It wouldn't make it a bad move, but the whole point of making moves is to advance your team toward one goal, the Cup. There's nothing to gloat about other than the Cup. Some of these clowns who gloat about Ovechkin scoring 5 billion goals in a season, blah blah blah. The Cup validates everything, it's not the other way around. The Cup trumps all.

The "look like idiots" was referring to dumping on the Bruins because of Seguin's regular season success, which ultimately doesn't really matter. But I was mistaken in interpreting you guys anyway, you weren't doing that, so.

It's more about the fans, than the actual teams. Fans want to say their team won the trade. Like Leaf fans after the Kessel trade, they got the best player in the deal, so that was their argument for winning the trade. Well when the Bruins won the Cup two years later, that trumps every single goal Kessel will ever score for the Leafs.

Not winning the Cup doesn't mean you made bad moves, it means you didn't make enough moves, or the right moves, not just that year, but the years leading up to it. The Stars didn't acquire Seguin just to improve their team, they acquired him to be the face of the franchise for the next 10+ years and to lead them to Stanley Cups.

Sadly, my football team is the Denver Broncos. When they went and threw 20+ million dollars a year at Peyton Manning, they didn't do it just to improve the team from Tim Tebow. They did it to win Super Bowls. If Peyton Manning retires without winning any Super Bowls for the Denver Broncos, especially if he loses in pathetic fashion like the last two years, that will be considered a failure of a move. It made them good, but not good enough. Different sports, and I don't want to get into it too in depth because I'll end up writing a novel that nobody will probably read, but the analogy works.

Is a career in any sport invalidated by failing to win a championship?
 
Is a career in any sport invalidated by failing to win a championship?

marino1333.jpg
 
I could care less about the Bruins, why do we have to talk about the Bruins all the time? Screw the Bruins. This is about the 5000th time I have seen somebody try to have a "rational discussion about Seguin". Seguin is on the Stars now, go Red Wings.
 
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