Player Discussion Tyler Kleven (D) at 44th Overall (Sens traded up)

[Sweatred]

Implied is an outword projection. It can only be done by the person writing on the wall to use you analogy. You can be aware of what is being implied but in this case there is no evidence anything was implied.

Inference is what you can do, based on your knowledge of the person making a statement, and other evidence and facts you can deduce or infer a hidden or implied meaning.

I can't be the authority on what others infer from the inclusion of "sens traded up" in the title, but i can certainly point out how flawed that inference appears to be.

As I mentioned... I would’t expect you to infer it. This board is full of implicit and explicit anti PD sentiment. I can’t recall you often explicitly criticizing the common anti PD points, but I also don’t see you defending him.

Im bored - we have one drafted kid who has *sens moved up* in his title. It’s a slow day, it stands out. Some notice it, you don’t. Infer what you want.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

...

 

[Alf Silfversson]

As I mentioned... I would’t expect you to infer it. This board is full of implicit and explicit anti PD sentiment. I can’t recall you often explicitly criticizing the common anti PD points, but I also don’t see you defending him.

Im bored - we have one drafted kid who has *sens moved up* in his title. It’s a slow day, it stands out.

What if Kleven becomes the next Chris Pronger. Then wouldn't the "traded up to get" tag be super pro-Dorion?

There's no negative connation to any of this unless the player busts. And then it would be justified.

Opposite is true if Kleven breaks out to become a great player.

 

[Sweatred]

What if Kleven becomes the next Chris Pronger. Then wouldn't the "traded up to get" tag be super pro-Dorion?

There's no negative connation to any of this unless the player busts. And then it would be justified.

Opposite is true if Kleven breaks out to become a great player.

Maybe in a few years - maybe when the overall sentiment of this board changes from hating everything he does to liking him.

It is changing - we don’t hear about EK trades, of Losing MD or RD anymore. I wouldn’t say the board is pro PD yet.

 

[Micklebot]

...

It's not pro or con unless the OP meant for it to be, but even then it would be pretty damn cryptic to try an imply negativity with a statement of fact about how we acquired the guy.

If i were to say i can't believe we traded up to grab him, you might infer negativity, but if i were a big fan of his, my intent might have been to show my excitmentand your inference would be off. Me stating my disbelief at least outwardly projects that i have some sort of feeling about the player...

In this case though, would it be percieved as a positive if instead of trading up for him we moved down? If pointing out we moved up is implying negativity, surely moving down implies positivity...

I guess my point is it's dangerous to start infering meaning where no evidence of an implied meaning exists.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The Sens traded up to get Kleven?

 

[Alf Silfversson]

The Sens traded up to get Kleven?

Yes and pointing this out is tantamount to slander to the great Pierre Dorion. It may in fact be libelous.

 

[Micklebot]

Maybe in a few years - maybe when the overall sentiment of this board changes from hating everything he does to liking him.

It is changing - we don’t hear about EK trades, of Losing MD or RD anymore. I wouldn’t say the board is pro PD yet.

Have you considered that if you infer negativity from something as inocuous as indicating we moved up to pick a guy in a thread title, maybe the problem is not the boards overall sentiment but rather with your perception?

This board doesn't feel so negative when you stop assuming everything is a slight against something or someone.

 

[Micklebot]

Yes and pointing this out is tantamount to slander to the great Pierre Dorion. It may in fact be libelous.

Well which one is it... Libel or slander. The people want to know

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Well which one is it... Libel or slander. The people want to know

 

[Sweatred]

Have you considered that if you infer negativity from something as inocuous as indicating we moved up to pick a guy in a thread title, maybe the problem is not the boards overall sentiment but rather with your perception?

This board doesn't feel so negative when you stop assuming everything is a slight against something or someone.

Ha - yes ... have you considered maybe your blind to all the “slights” that go on around here ... I can point out more of them to you if you want ?

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Ha - yes ... have you considered maybe your blind to all the “slights” that go on around here ... I can point out more of them to you if you want ?

People are pretty open about their displeasure with PD's record. They don't tend to subtly add it to thread titles in some masterplan to covertly add a negative undertone about Pierre Dorion.

There are certainly people here who have a bias towards being negative about Dorion and plenty of others tend towards being more positive. It is what it is.

But honestly I don't think you should be on here talking about people having some sort of agenda to always make everything negative about an individual. In fact you're the last person on this whole board that should be casting stones at THAT glass house.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

The Sens traded up to get Kleven?

No the leafs traded down to lose him.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

People are pretty open about their displeasure with PD's record. They don't tend to subtly add it to thread titles in some masterplan to covertly add a negative undertone about Pierre Dorion.

There are certainly people here who have a bias towards being negative about Dorion and plenty of others tend towards being more positive. It is what it is.

But honestly I don't think you should be on here talking about people having some sort of agenda to always make everything negative about an individual. In fact you're the last person on this whole board that should be casting stones at THAT glass house.

Fan reaction to the trade up for Kleven after 6:51 in his 1st game with UND. He's definitely "the Man" behind "the Team".

"Building for this future success only also means strategic choices about the present"

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

No the leafs traded down to lose him.

Don't tell me you've gone over to the dark side already

 

[Senscore]

Well which one is it... Libel or slander. The people want to know

 

[Sweatred]

People are pretty open about their displeasure with PD's record. They don't tend to subtly add it to thread titles in some masterplan to covertly add a negative undertone about Pierre Dorion.

There are certainly people here who have a bias towards being negative about Dorion and plenty of others tend towards being more positive. It is what it is.

But honestly I don't think you should be on here talking about people having some sort of agenda to always make everything negative about an individual. In fact you're the last person on this whole board that should be casting stones at THAT glass house.

Nice one ... where did I say “master plan”. If you would read and/or comprehend you would know that we already agree the poster didn’t have any intent behind the post.

So there are people here who have a bias toward PD? Thanks for acknowledging my point.

Im sorry that I don’t think White is a great player ? No need to get emotional. Feel better now? Hug ? Tissue ?

 

[RAFI BOMB]

One thing I noticed about Kleven is that he is able to land massive hits without taking himself way out of position. A have noticed a number of examples where he is in solid position and maintaining good gap control on the puck carrier. He then uses an active stick to pressure the puck carrier and either closes off passing lanes along the boards or uses his stick to pressure the puck carrier to try to chip the puck against the boards creating a bank pass to themselves. As they do this the puck carrier ends up in a position where Kleven can really lay the body hard on them. Kleven doesn't seem to need much space to then close the gap and really hurt them.

I find it to be very impressive because I don't see a lot of physical d men that can do that in this era. Often physical d men aren't able to combine gap control with smart stick work to trap their opponent and then crush them. Instead the tendency of a lot of modern physical d men is to just take a run at a puck carrier and seemingly neglect the puck. There is still an effectiveness to that as it can make puck carriers more hesitant to skate down that side of the ice and potentially panic in the kind of play they try to make. But Kleven's approach seems superior to that. He has a massive frame and with his active stick he he takes up a ton of space. It leads to puck carriers not only losing the puck but also taking a massive hit for nothing.

Sanderson is also very good at this. Kleven is bigger and the more punishing hitter but Sanderson is better at gap control and using his active stick to force turnovers.

It is an impressive thing and makes Kleven a superior prospect to the typical physical d man with size. It is also a reason why I think some of the comparisons thrown around here seem a bit inaccurate. Kleven has much more tools than a typical depth physical d man.

 

[aragorn]

One thing I noticed about Kleven is that he is able to land massive hits without taking himself way out of position. A have noticed a number of examples where he is in solid position and maintaining good gap control on the puck carrier. He then uses an active stick to pressure the puck carrier and either closes off passing lanes along the boards or uses his stick to pressure the puck carrier to try to chip the puck against the boards creating a bank pass to themselves. As they do this the puck carrier ends up in a position where Kleven can really lay the body hard on them. Kleven doesn't seem to need much space to then close the gap and really hurt them.

I find it to be very impressive because I don't see a lot of physical d men that can do that in this era. Often physical d men aren't able to combine gap control with smart stick work to trap their opponent and then crush them. Instead the tendency of a lot of modern physical d men is to just take a run at a puck carrier and seemingly neglect the puck. There is still an effectiveness to that as it can make puck carriers more hesitant to skate down that side of the ice and potentially panic in the kind of play they try to make. But Kleven's approach seems superior to that. He has a massive frame and with his active stick he he takes up a ton of space. It leads to puck carriers not only losing the puck but also taking a massive hit for nothing.

Sanderson is also very good at this. Kleven is bigger and the more punishing hitter but Sanderson is better at gap control and using his active stick to force turnovers.

It is an impressive thing and makes Kleven a superior prospect to the typical physical d man with size. It is also a reason why I think some of the comparisons thrown around here seem a bit inaccurate. Kleven has much more tools than a typical depth physical d man.

Good post, couldn't agree more.

 

[Sweatred]

Fan reaction to the trade up for Kleven after 6:51 in his 1st game with UND. He's definitely "the Man" behind "the Team".

"Building for this future success only also means strategic choices about the present"

Very refreshing to have something combat the constant negativity about PD trades and picks.

Fortunately you would be a fool to not see the genius behind moving EK, MD, RD, and drafting Pinto, Klevin types regardless of all the posts about how stupid/dumb/cheap PD and the Sens were.

 

[SENATOR]

The Sens traded up to get Kleven?

Dorion would trade up for a goat. Management is asinine and disgraceful in that stupidity.

 

[SENATOR]

You can not separate Melnyk and Dorion. Idiots would always gravitate towards idiots and employed by idiots.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Very refreshing to have something combat the constant negativity about PD trades and picks.

Fortunately you would be a fool to not see the genius behind moving EK, MD, RD, and drafting Pinto, Klevin types regardless of all the posts about how stupid/dumb/cheap PD and the Sens were.

This post is brilliant. Like I’ve never seen two paragraphs walk the tight line of sarcasm and genuine praise like this

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Don't tell me you've gone over to the dark side already

I’ll let you know after tonight’s game whether I officially side with the PROs or the Internet loooosers.

 

[JD1]

There are many things that can be inferred from the past few pages of discussion