Prospect Info: Tyler Boucher (RW/LW) - Don`t sleep on Tyler Boucher

[BondraTime]

I'm not talking about goons.

I'm talking about big skilled aggressive players. Who that's coming through the ranks plays like Iginla? Is he a meathead? Go look at how many fights he had in junior. It would lead the league.

If you can actually make an argument without reverting to strawmen, I'd like to hear it.

Your "if you like lots of fights, you must like 4th line goons"...no. historically, plenty of 50+ point junior players would throw a lot of big hits and get in many fights. That was entertaining. You don't have to want goons to like big hits and fights.

The 5-1 Ottawa Montreal playoff game was more entertaining with the brawl then had it just been a 5-1 win without big hits and fights.

It would lead the league because there was no fight limit in the CHL at the time.

Junior hockey has gotten much different, and yes it is much softer, anyone who argues different is out to lunch.

Player safety has taken the forefront, as it should, which has resulted in tons of awful and soft calls. Nature of the beast.

There are not, and will not, be many guys like Iginla/Terry Ryan/etc. who are putting up 100+ points and 200+ PIMS in their draft years and going top 10 anymore, because those players no longer exist, for better or for worse.

That's why teams get hard-ons, and generally overrate, any big physical player who can play the game, they are now unicorns instead of 5+ guys every 1st round like the 90's/early 2000's.

 

[Snowwy]

I'm not talking about goons.

I'm talking about big skilled aggressive players. Who that's coming through the ranks plays like Iginla? Is he a meathead? Go look at how many fights he had in junior. It would lead the league.

If you can actually make an argument without reverting to strawmen, I'd like to hear it.

Your "if you like lots of fights, you must like 4th line goons"...no. historically, plenty of 50+ point junior players would throw a lot of big hits and get in many fights. That was entertaining. You don't have to want goons to like big hits and fights.

The 5-1 Ottawa Montreal playoff game was more entertaining with the brawl then had it just been a 5-1 win without big hits and fights.

Iginla had 120 PIMs his maximum year in junior. That’s not a lot.

 

[Cosmix]

That’s not true.

The CHL has changed a ton since Neil was there. There are limits on fights, and we have seen what kind of hit gets you multiple game suspensions.

Neil would have done whatever the team wanted to make it, just like any and every drafted kid.

I gotta say though, I heard and saw about as much from Sillinger in tonight’s game as I did Boucher…..

Sillinger's output this season is far different from his first.

 

[cudi]

Sillinger's output this season is far different from his first.

I've seen a lot of Jackets fans want him sent to the AHL. Def got hit with a sophomore slump.

 

[Cosmix]

That’s not true.

The CHL has changed a ton since Neil was there. There are limits on fights, and we have seen what kind of hit gets you multiple game suspensions.

Neil would have done whatever the team wanted to make it, just like any and every drafted kid.

I gotta say though, I heard and saw about as much from Sillinger in tonight’s game as I did Boucher…..

Which part is not true?

Neil had to play a physical game and hit hard because he was not an offensively gifted player. If he did not do that, he would not have made the Senators. I don't view Neil as a goon.

Boucher has to play his game, whatever that turns out to be, including playing a physical game (not necessarily a goon fighting game), to become an NHL player. In fact I do not view Boucher as a fighting goon; he looks like a physical player who hits. Yes he was suspended for a hit; he must learn not to do that type of hit and take penalties or else he will not become an NHL player.

It would lead the league because there was no fight limit in the CHL at the time.

Junior hockey has gotten much different, and yes it is much softer, anyone who argues different is out to lunch.

Player safety has taken the forefront, as it should, which has resulted in tons of awful and soft calls. Nature of the beast.

There are not, and will not, be many guys like Iginla/Terry Ryan/etc. who are putting up 100+ points and 200+ PIMS in their draft years and going top 10 anymore, because those players no longer exist, for better or for worse.

That's why teams get hard-ons, and generally overrate, any big physical player who can play the game, they are now unicorns instead of 5+ guys every 1st round like the 90's/early 2000's.

I agree. Player safety must take priority or else the leagues and teams will pay a heavy price through lawsuits.

 

[BondraTime]

Iginla had 120 PIMs his maximum year in junior. That’s not a lot.

That is a ton of PIMs. Would be 4th in the entire CHL last season. 8 players out of the 52 teams got 100 PIMs.

He had 300 PIMS in his 17-18 year old seasons, along with 250 points

 

[jbeck5]

Iginla had 120 PIMs his maximum year in junior. That’s not a lot.

How's it not a lot? The only person who had more on his team was 6'5, 245 and had 1 goal in 63 games.

Look at his last playoffs.

16-16-13-29 statline with 44pims.

 

[Tragedy]

I'm not talking about goons.

I'm talking about big skilled aggressive players. Who that's coming through the ranks plays like Iginla? Is he a meathead? Go look at how many fights he had in junior. It would lead the league.

If you can actually make an argument without reverting to strawmen, I'd like to hear it.

Your "if you like lots of fights, you must like 4th line goons"...no. historically, plenty of 50+ point junior players would throw a lot of big hits and get in many fights. That was entertaining. You don't have to want goons to like big hits and fights.

The 5-1 Ottawa Montreal playoff game was more entertaining with the brawl then had it just been a 5-1 win without big hits and fights.

Remind me again, how many of the players on the ice in the line brawl were teenagers and/or making $500 a month? Oh, none of them?

 

[BondraTime]

Remind me again, how many of the players on the ice in the line brawl were teenagers and/or making $500 a month? Oh, none of them?

Legit has nothing to do with anything.

Does fighting and physical play make for exciting games? Absolutely.

Are junior leagues moving towards player safety? Absolutely, and rightfully so

Is a Junior game with a bench brawl entertaining? Absolutely.

Is a junior game without fighting and less physical play entertaining? Absolutely

Are you some kind of unmoral person because you enjoyed a junior game with fighting and physical play? Not remotely, that's one of the most foolish assertations I've seen.

 

[Snowwy]

That is a ton of PIMs. Would be 4th in the entire CHL last season. 8 players out of the 52 teams got 100 PIMs.

He had 300 PIMS in his 17-18 year old seasons, along with 250 points

He finished tied for 93rd in the WHL in penalty minutes that season. He had 231 PIMs in those two seasons. You know your point is weak when 231 is rounded up to 300.

How's it not a lot? The only person who had more on his team was 6'5, 245 and had 1 goal in 63 games.

Look at his last playoffs.

16-16-13-29 statline with 44pims.

93rd in the league. That is not a lot.

 

[BondraTime]

He finished tied for 93rd in the WHL in penalty minutes that season. He had 231 PIMs in those two seasons. You know your point is weak when 231 is rounded up to 300.


93rd in the league. That is not a lot.

Do a little addition with the point totals and PIM totals to see where that came from.

Yes, that’s the point, that type of game isn’t happening now, because players cannot play that type of game.

5 guys in the top 11 of that 1994 draft came from the WHL, had 105, 111, 140, 150, 170 PIMs and put up a combined 500 points, with 10+ fights each aside from Doan. Players cannot do that anymore, or play that type of game anymore, as the rules have removed that from the CHL.

 

[Snowwy]

Do a little addition with the point totals and PIM totals to see where that came from.

Yes, that’s the point, that type of game isn’t happening now, because players cannot play that type of game.

Yeah, no one talks about Gretzky's 255 point season...no one adds regular season and playoff totals.

 

[BondraTime]

Yeah, no one talks about Gretzky's 255 point season...no one adds regular season and playoff totals.

Are we not talking about the rule changes making it harder/impossible for guys like Iginla to come through the CHL? I specifically stated in his 17-18 year old seasons. You’d think being off by 80 PIMs and 50 points would tip that off that playoffs were included.

Getzlaf is the closest thing, back in 2003 prior to the rule changes.

Teams make messes all over themselves when they see a guy like Wilson, with his cool 27 points, who was ragdolling guys back in 2011-2012 with 8-10 fights, when there was a 10 fight limit, rather than the 3 fight limit in place now, because there are no players like that anymore, as the Junior leagues don’t allow them to grow that kind of game.

Iginla fighting 10 times in his draft year is something that doesn’t happen now. His 110 regular season PIMs is still a ton, considering that most teams had 4 players who literally only made the roster to fight, who took up the top of the PIM list.

He had more fights his draft season than any CHL player has had over the past 3 full seasons combined.

 

[Tragedy]

Legit has nothing to do with anything.

Does fighting and physical play make for exciting games? Absolutely.

Are junior leagues moving towards player safety? Absolutely, and rightfully so

Is a Junior game with a bench brawl entertaining? Absolutely.

Is a junior game without fighting and less physical play entertaining? Absolutely

Are you some kind of unmoral person because you enjoyed a junior game with fighting and physical play? Not remotely, that's one of the most foolish assertations I've seen.

Please take the time to highlight anywhere I have said the opposite. I'll wait

I've simply said if you're going to call those leagues "soft" then be up front about your feelings. Instead of saying "Man that league is soft" just say "Man, I miss watching that kid get a concussion in the corner, he isn't my kid but shit it sure made the game more interesting!"

 

[jbeck5]

Please take the time to highlight anywhere I have said the opposite. I'll wait

I've simply said if you're going to call those leagues "soft" then be up front about your feelings. Instead of saying "Man that league is soft" just say "Man, I miss watching that kid get a concussion in the corner, he isn't my kid but shit it sure made the game more interesting!"

Still making strawmen arguments.

You know you can like big hits and big fights without liking seeing players get injured.

Plenty of big fights and big hits are had without major injuries.

I understand the risk goes up with more aggression and physicality.

What I don't get is your really gross argument that if you like rough stuff, you must like players getting injured.

I played contact sports with a bunch of my childhood friends without any major injury. It was fun. To like contact and physicality does not mean you like kids breaking their arms or getting concussed. You just understand it's much more fun with that physical element even if it's more dangerous.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Are you some kind of unmoral person because you enjoyed a junior game with fighting and physical play? Not remotely, that's one of the most foolish assertations I've seen.

Agree with pretty much the whole post. I enjoyed watching some of those crazy junior games in my younger days, without a doubt.

But with what we now know about head injuries and how they affect people (especially in their formative years) it would be, at best, borderline immoral to cheer for a return to those kind of rules or lack thereof. Not saying this applies to you.

For leagues/associations to keep those kind of rules in place (with what we now know) for junior players would be, at best, borderline criminal. This has nothing to do with leagues going soft. It has to do with simply doing the right thing and protecting the kids playing. Or if we want to get cynical it has to do with avoiding obvious liability.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Still making strawmen arguments.

You know you can like big hits and big fights without liking seeing players get injured.

Plenty of big fights and big hits are had without major injuries.

I understand the risk goes up with more aggression and physicality.

What I don't get is your really gross argument that if you like rough stuff, you must like players getting injured.

I played contact sports with a bunch of my childhood friends without any major injury. It was fun. To like contact and physicality does not mean you like kids breaking their arms or getting concussed. You just understand it's much more fun with that physical element even if it's more dangerous.

This is all true, but all anecdotal.

It was more fun as a kid to crawl around the backseat while the family car cruised down the highway at 100 km/h, then it was to wear a seatbelt. We now know that the link between that "fun" and child mortality in vehicle crashes is directly linked. Just like we know that dangerous hits and fighting are directly linked to head injuries.

One can say that they don't like injuries; I mean who DOES Like injuries? But if you truly DISLIKE people getting injured then the current CHL rules are a step in the right direction.

 

[OD99]

I've seen a lot of Jackets fans want him sent to the AHL. Def got hit with a sophomore slump.

Yep, not unusual at all.

He had a few nice plays last night and you can see the skill. Playing 3rd line C in the NHL vs a bit player at the WJHC at the same age are quite different.

 

[BondraTime]

Please take the time to highlight anywhere I have said the opposite. I'll wait

I've simply said if you're going to call those leagues "soft" then be up front about your feelings. Instead of saying "Man that league is soft" just say "Man, I miss watching that kid get a concussion in the corner, he isn't my kid but shit it sure made the game more interesting!"

I mean, you’re doing exactly that in this exact post “Man, I miss watching a kid get a concussion in the corner”….absolutely, hilariously ridiculous and not even close to what @JD1 meant by soft hockey, but glad you made it about something completely different.

That’s not the same, whatsoever. That’s an embarrassingly simple definition of soft.

Instead of thinking people want to go back to busting faces and driving kids heads into the boards and ice, just say you don’t understand what soft hockey is.

What do you think a coach means when he says the team needs to stop plying soft hockey? That they need to go out and break skulls and beat up the other team?

When I watch the Sea Dogs get 4 PP’s in a row on what amounts to a clean body check and 3 players getting touched with a stick, and hear from the players that they have no clue what they’re supposed to do on the forecheck because they get called if they hit the other players, that’s soft. Nothing to do with bashing or fighting.

 

[JD1]

Please take the time to highlight anywhere I have said the opposite. I'll wait

I've simply said if you're going to call those leagues "soft" then be up front about your feelings. Instead of saying "Man that league is soft" just say "Man, I miss watching that kid get a concussion in the corner, he isn't my kid but shit it sure made the game more interesting!"

You appear to have a bit of an agenda on this subject

 

[BondraTime]

Agree with pretty much the whole post. I enjoyed watching some of those crazy junior games in my younger days, without a doubt.

But with what we now know about head injuries and how they affect people (especially in their formative years) it would be, at best, borderline immoral to cheer for a return to those kind of rules or lack thereof. Not saying this applies to you.

For leagues/associations to keep those kind of rules in place (with what we now know) for junior players would be, at best, borderline criminal. This has nothing to do with leagues going soft. It has to do with simply doing the right thing and protecting the kids playing. Or if we want to get cynical it has to do with avoiding obvious liability.

Absolutely, removing fighting with a 3 game suspension limit is fantastic. Fighting isn’t needed in the CHL, I hated it as a player, and as a scout. I’m very happy to see it fading out.

Like you said, the fighting removal is the correct move. That’s not what’s making the leagues soft right now. The league wide, unknown precedence with penalties, suspensions, and injuries is what’s making the league soft. Nothing to do with players not drilling guys through the boards or beating the faces off each other.

Leagues don’t need Kevin Cormier’s or Marty Doyle’s fighting 30 times a year and beating the living shit out of each other, removing that isn’t making the leagues any softer whatsoever. It’s improving the leagues.

Equating soft Hockey to wanting to go back to that type of game is frankly bizarre.

 

[Bileur]

you know i get that Boucher is bigger, more physical, faster etc

but 5 ft 7 Stankoven seems A LOT harder to play against.

Didn’t look so hard to play against on that first American goal.

 

[Tragedy]

I mean, you’re doing exactly that in this exact post “Man, I miss watching a kid get a concussion in the corner”….absolutely, hilariously ridiculous and not even close to what @JD1 meant by soft hockey, but glad you made it about something completely different.

That’s not the same, whatsoever. That’s an embarrassingly simple definition of soft.

Instead of thinking people want to go back to busting faces and driving kids heads into the boards and ice, just say you don’t understand what soft hockey is.

What do you think a coach means when he says the team needs to stop plying soft hockey? That they need to go out and break skulls and beat up the other team?

When I watch the Sea Dogs get 4 PP’s in a row on what amounts to a clean body check and 3 players getting touched with a stick, and hear from the players that they have no clue what they’re supposed to do on the forecheck because they get called if they hit the other players, that’s soft. Nothing to do with bashing or fighting.

Now see you are doing what you accuse me of. If we look back at the context of the original post I quoted talking about "freight train" hits not being allowed because the leagues are soft then we can see it wasn't "oh man, the leagues are calling any and all hits including forechecking which disrupts the physicality and flow of a game" it was clearly huge violent hits the poster was lamenting being removed. Thus my original brain damage comment

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Didn’t look so hard to play against on that first American goal.

Neither did Boucher when the guy legit got benched for an entire period cuz he lost coverage 3 different times resulting on 2 goals for Canada.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Didn’t look so hard to play against on that first American goal.

They call him "The Fireball" though.

But yeesh Boucher reminds me too much of Lazar at the WJC but with even lower hockey sense.

Their high skilled teammates buzzing around trying to create while they are just trying to keep up.

Not sure why Dorion and Mann hate hockey sense so much.