Prospect Info: Tyler Boucher (RW/LW) - Don`t sleep on Tyler Boucher

[Senator Stanley]

What?.... He has hockey sense and he isn't remotely close to being done developing.

Maybe you struggle to identify hockey sense yourself. You said Brady had none and went on for pages upon pages saying so.

I keep reading the same rhetoric that the pick was blown botched whatever. Whoever is repeating that have you looked historically at the development of bigger physical players? We simply don't know yet. Due to injuries, suspensions and the pandemic many players specifically Boucher have missed out on major development time. People need more patience. Not just with Boucher but this sens team in general. They aren't a player away right now the teams best players aren't close to their prime. If you want to see a cup you're just going to have to wait and not give up on players so early. Look at how long it took Nick Paul.... It's a prime example right in front of you. Most of the board wanted to give up on him.

If not hockey sense, what is holding him back? As you've said, he has a ton of tools and he's clearly a great athlete.

There's always more developing to do, but we've seen a ton of "tools, no toolbox" prospects over the years. They don't all develop their way out of that.

 

[bert]

I am talking about basic finishing off hits and not big hits in this tournaments. he was very unnoticeable in the little he played and seemed to provide nothing on the ice. He had good net front presence in the other games but that won't get you far

He was really good in his role in every game but last night. Over the top uneducated hatred of a player drafted by your favorite team. It's so strange.

 

[bert]

If not hockey sense, what is holding him back? As you've said, he has a ton of tools and he's clearly a great athlete.

There's always more developing to do, but we've seen a ton of "tools, no toolbox" prospects over the years. They don't all develop their way out of that.

He needs reps and to grow into his body. He has barely had any the last 3 years. It's weird to me that we have posters saying he is done that don't watch him and don't acknowledge any human aspect like changing teams systems countries and injuries. Why is it do you think that big players take longer to develop?.....

I am not saying he is a world beater or he won't bust. All I am saying is it's way too early. For that I'm labeled a 'cheerleader'.

I'd rather be a 'cheerleader' than a 'hater' if those are the only options.

 

[Bileur]

It will be there in the NHL. He's one of those guys that can't score at any level except the NHL.

Just like me, but I never made it.

Never made it or “was never given my shot”?

 

[bert]

Lazar looked much better in a support rolerole.

Lazar played with McDavid.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Sure, but you can use that strategy until there is no more fun or no more physical play. Where do you draw the line?

Sure, you want hockey to be safe...but isn't the whole point of hockey for fun? And if it's more fun to play and watch with some mild violence, then so be it.

If you're going to take every precaution in the name of safety, you would walk 2 hours everywhere because you're less likely to get hit by a car and die as a pedestrian than a motorist on the road.

At some point, everything else from convenience, to freedom, to fun, has to take a piece of the pie from safety or else we would have no life.

Thousands and millions of people were not only willing, but enjoying playing high contact hockey. Other thousands and millions of people were enjoying watching high contact hockey.

Perhaps they can have a non contact league for people like you, and a contact league for people like me.. therefore we're both happy. We both get what we want..more variety too.

Strawman anyone?

I never said to get rid of contact hockey and played plenty myself. So STFU with putting words in my mouth.

We didn't start walking everywhere but wanted less people dying so we made rules to make driving safer but allowing it to continue. Speed limits, DUIs, seatbelts, etc.

Now the junior leagues are making rules that allow contact hockey to continue but mitigate the risks. Injuries, including head injuries, ARE going to happen. The rules are in place to try to eliminate unnecessary injuries that aren't really a part of the play. Sure there is some collateral damage in that some important physical play is lost, but for the most part hockey is still likely the most physical team sport in the world.

If you want to continue to see good hockey at all levels these rules are pretty much mandatory in the long haul. Parents of elite athletes, and athletes themselves, are going to sooner or later choose a sport where the chances of a life-changing injury are less likely. It wouldn't happen overnight but it WILL happen if leagues disregard the safety of their athletes.

 

[BondraTime]

Lazar played with McDavid.

He played with McDavid as a 19 year old, Played everywhere in the lineup as an 18 year old, and was on PP1 on the point and PK1. Played games with Leier, Gauthier, Anderson, Rychel, Petan, Drouin and Hudon.

He was named one of Canada's top 3 players in the tournament in both his 18 and 19 year old tournaments.

He looked incredible at the WJ's at 18.

 

[scout20]

“He is two years away from being two years away” from making it to the NHL..

 

[HSF]

He was really good in his role in every game but last night. Over the top uneducated hatred of a player drafted by your favorite team. It's so strange.

nothing to do with favorite team. I hope you would be able to evaluate a player without bias

he was not able to keep up last night against a good team and was benched according. It is not looking good at all

 

[Alf Silfversson]

He played with McDavid as a 19 year old, Played everywhere in the lineup as an 18 year old, and was on PP1 on the point and PK1. Played games with Leier, Gauthier, Anderson, Rychel, Petan, Drouin and Hudon.

He was named one of Canada's top 3 players in the tournament in both his 18 and 19 year old tournaments.

He looked incredible at the WJ's at 18.

Yeah Lazar was a standout junior player in every forum in which he played. He was great in both WJHC he played in. Boucher hasn't been that (yet).

I think they project differently though as pros and that Boucher will have at least a Lazar level pro career. I'm hoping at least. Kid needs a lot of time to develop.

 

[HSF]

He needs reps and to grow into his body. He has barely had any the last 3 years. It's weird to me that we have posters saying he is done that don't watch him and don't acknowledge any human aspect like changing teams systems countries and injuries. Why is it do you think that big players take longer to develop?.....

I am not saying he is a world beater or he won't bust. All I am saying is it's way too early. For that I'm labeled a 'cheerleader'.

I'd rather be a 'cheerleader' than a 'hater' if those are the only options.

grow into his body? dude he is not some behemoth that just grew 3 inches

 

[starling]

Sure, but you can use that strategy until there is no more fun or no more physical play. Where do you draw the line?

Sure, you want hockey to be safe...but isn't the whole point of hockey for fun? And if it's more fun to play and watch with some mild violence, then so be it.

Is it though? You want to see more dump-and-chase games? Games where players carrying a puck shy away from contact, intimidated by "mild violence" at the blue line? When players think more about what their "tough" opponents could do to them along the boards and how to avoid that, rather than making a nice play?

Maybe I'm missing something. Where are those highlights of fun violence I can watch? All I can see are highlights of players scoring goals and making plays.

This highlight would've ended with #12 slashing Timmy on the first spinorama and then elbowing into the board on the second. Not to mention dissuading him from trying it again in the future.

 

[bert]

He played with McDavid as a 19 year old, Played everywhere in the lineup as an 18 year old, and was on PP1 on the point and PK1. Played games with Leier, Gauthier, Anderson, Rychel, Petan, Drouin and Hudon.

He was named one of Canada's top 3 players in the tournament in both his 18 and 19 year old tournaments.

He looked incredible at the WJ's at 18.

He did but it was obvious he couldnt handle the puck very well. I was very skeptical about his offensive game translating.

Lazar was almost completely developed at that point. Very different development paths between him and Boucher. I think Boucher will be a better player in the NHL than Lazar as he is heavier and has a better shot. But by how much I am not sure.

grow into his body? dude he is not some behemoth that just grew 3 inches

He is still filling out and growing. Its not a complicated concept, the coordination and quickness is not there yet. Players develop into their bodies until they are into their mid 20's. You are acting like this is a new concept, again very strange.

 

[HSF]

He did but it was obvious he couldnt handle the puck very well. I was very skeptical about his offensive game translating.

Lazar was almost completely developed at that point. Very different development paths between him and Boucher. I think Boucher will be a better player in the NHL than Lazar as he is heavier and has a better shot. But by how much I am not sure.


He is still filling out and growing. Its not a complicated concept, the coordination and quickness is not there yet. Players develop into their bodies until they are into their mid 20's. You are acting like this is a new concept, again very strange.

so hes just like every other player then kinda just proves the point that he is not very impressive being the oldest guy on his team.

Strange that you can't admit that his potential and game is looking pretty suspect at this point from what we have seen.

Must be the rose coloured glasses

 

[RickyLafleur]

Ha. He had a bad game.

Hey every time one of our players has a bad game we should cut all ties to the player. And roast them on their way out. Lol

On the flip side, how many good games has he had this year?

 

[bert]

nothing to do with favorite team. I hope you would be able to evaluate a player without bias

he was not able to keep up last night against a good team and was benched according. It is not looking good at all

I am able to evaluate without bias, and using the knowledge I have developed by watching and playing this sport for 35+ years. I am as critical as anyone around here when its deserved. I know that big players take longer to develop. Which seems like a completely foreign concept to many posters around here. I am glad you tuned into your first game to watch him this season though. Speaking of bias you dug your heels in early on the pick and wont view it any other way. I didnt like it at the time and I dont love it now but I am able to be objective. So I hope you can evaluate without bias, but doesnt appear to be the situation. You also stated that teams should hit on every pick which is such clearly flawed logic I am not sure why this debate continues.

so hes just like every other player then kinda just proves the point that he is not very impressive being the oldest guy on his team.

Strange that you can't admit that his potential and game is looking pretty suspect at this point from what we have seen.

Must be the rose coloured glasses

Your grasp on prospect development is lacking. Nothing to do with rose coloured glasses just an ability to be open to a player developing that is and always was a project.

 

[BondraTime]

He did but it was obvious he couldnt handle the puck very well. I was very skeptical about his offensive game translating

Lazar was almost completely developed at that point. Very different development paths between him and Boucher. I think Boucher will be a better player in the NHL than Lazar as he is heavier and has a better shot. But by how much I am not sure.


He is still filling out and growing. It’s not a complicated concept, the coordination and quickness is not there yet. Players develop into their bodies until they are into their mid 20's. You are acting like this is a new concept, again very strange.

I think they are/were pretty similar players in most facets of the game, only real advantage to Boucher I’d give I’d physicality. Of course he can still develop, but I am of the opinion that he has less developing to undergo than you, right or wrong. He needs to ply games for sure, but I don’t think he’s a lumbering guy finding his game in his body. He was 6'1, 205 at the start of the 2020 season, and 2 years later is essentially the same size, This isn't a guy like Kevin Korchinski going from 5'10 160 to 6'3 190 over a 6 month period. I don't think his development path is going to be like that of the guys catching up to their body. Funny enough, I think it will be more like Lazar's who was 6'0 195 at the combine I believe, and now plays at 6'0 200.

Both were/are men amongst boys in the CHL, both had great m shots and skating, both were scoring more goals than assists. Boucher is a physical monster, that is rarely seen in the CHL, while Lazar was only a guy who played physical. Lazar was fantastic defensively, while Boucher is not at this point.

I hope he’s better than Lazar as well, and think he should be as Lazar isn’t exactly an everyday NHLer.

I saw the same stuff this tournament that made me think he’s a sure fire NHLer, with a very limited ceiling, and that rings true for the games where he produced 2 goals and many came out of the woodwork yeehaw-ing, and the game where he was benched in the 2nd with guys coming out of the woodwork calling him a bust. 1 game, good or bad, isn’t going to change an opinion formed over 2 years and 50+ games.

His game is built for the 4th line of the NHL. Where you’re dumping, chasing, putting picks on net and hitting. Not skating with the puck or setting up plays with vision. He can still develop and move up into a 3rd, or higher, who knows. Not sure he’ll get PP1 time in the big leagues, but he is more than capable with the puck off his stick in the front of the net.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

a long development path but i still believe there is a decent middle 6 player in him.

Can't be said enough drafting him 10th overall was not only mean to the fans, it was mean to Tyler Boucher.

Middle 6 is 2nd/3rd line .. I would agree with bottom 6 3rd/4th line. Sens have to stay patient with his development if they want a 3rd vs 4th liner.
I watched every game as I am sure many here did. He had some very good shifts. He has speed, power, a good shot and he made some good plays at pace. His Ozone game is not bad. He is clearly physically superior to most players at the junior level. His defensive game needs work and imo should be an area of focus for him as a 3rd or 4th line player you have to be reliable defensively because your top 2 lines will be relied on for offence vs defense with a couple of exceptions with the good 2 way players. Players even like you're fave Parker Kelly, Motte and even Joseph play because of their versatility and ability to play defense. Ostapchuk has developed that part of this game. So unless you are going to be that big plus on offense you better be able to defend. With a little improvement on defense he could be a good energy line player that can use his speed to get in on the forecheck, lay some big hits and chip in here and there. I am projecting a more physical Joseph type of player but he's not there yet.

The 10OA is spilled milk at this point. Sens have the player. People see different things. But there are flashes so we have to wait. I hope the Sens don't rush him in.

 

[Hale The Villain]

I don’t think they hate hockey sense. They wouldn’t have ended up with Tkachuk, Stutzle, Pinto, Sanderson, Greig, Hamara, Kastelic, Ostapchuk or JBD (an many other examples when they were in other roles) if that were the case.

Seems to me they highly value character and work ethic as predictors of development and are taking swings on guys with a stand out NHL level attribute (skating, size, shot, hockey sense etc)

As I said when he was drafted, he was picked too early but the milk is spilled all we can do now is keep tabs on him and not even think about him as an NHL option until he’s had probably 2 years in the AHL.

They don't hate hockey sense, they just don't value it as highly as other teams.

Tkachuk and Stutzle are smart players, but I wouldn't consider hockey IQ their stand-out trait by any means. Considering they were top 5 picks it would be shocking if they weren't smart hockey players. Wouldn't consider them evidence the Sens value IQ highly.

Also wouldn't consider Ostapchuk or Kastelic as players with great hockey sense. I'll give you Sanderson, Greig and JBD though.

The traits the Sens scouting staff value under Mann's leadership are obvious at this point. Primarily they look at tools (size and skating), physicality, character, bloodlines and defensive play. Hockey IQ, puck skills, playmaking ability - these aren't things they value nearly as much as other teams, which is how Boucher being drafted 10th OVR happens in the first place.

 

[ottawah]

He is going to be a late bloomer for sure.

He is very raw, we don't even know what we have yet, boom or bust!

I would tend not to agree with those statements. He has all the hallmarks of an early bloomer. Roughly average NHL size, identified as one of the top 15 forward in the US at an early age, got the very top training from a very early age.

Personally I cannot think of a single USNDP player that was a late bloomer. By definition, they are all early bloomers.

It does not mean he cannot improve, but we also have to look at it realistically.

 

[HSF]

I am able to evaluate without bias, and using the knowledge I have developed by watching and playing this sport for 35+ years. I am as critical as anyone around here when its deserved. I know that big players take longer to develop. Which seems like a completely foreign concept to many posters around here. I am glad you tuned into your first game to watch him this season though. Speaking of bias you dug your heels in early on the pick and wont view it any other way. I didnt like it at the time and I dont love it now but I am able to be objective. So I hope you can evaluate without bias, but doesnt appear to be the situation. You also stated that teams should hit on every pick which is such clearly flawed logic I am not sure why this debate continues.


Your grasp on prospect development is lacking. Nothing to do with rose coloured glasses just an ability to be open to a player developing that is and always was a project.

I have done the same and I can tell you that Boucher istrending towards being a dime a dozen prospect

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I am able to evaluate without bias, and using the knowledge I have developed by watching and playing this sport for 35+ years. I am as critical as anyone around here when its deserved. I know that big players take longer to develop. Which seems like a completely foreign concept to many posters around here. I am glad you tuned into your first game to watch him this season though. Speaking of bias you dug your heels in early on the pick and wont view it any other way. I didnt like it at the time and I dont love it now but I am able to be objective. So I hope you can evaluate without bias, but doesnt appear to be the situation. You also stated that teams should hit on every pick which is such clearly flawed logic I am not sure why this debate continues.


Your grasp on prospect development is lacking. Nothing to do with rose coloured glasses just an ability to be open to a player developing that is and always was a project.

Lazar vs Boucher

Lazar played a more mature game early on and showed more versatility. Lazar could be relied on in a shut down role and PK .
Boucher has more speed and power, hits harder and a harder shot.
Puck skills as far as being deft and deceptive are similar
Neither player is your zone entry guy or puck transporter
Boucher can make more of an impact on the game physically at the same age but is that enough?

Boucher has to learn to be a reliable defensive player imo to have the chance to make a consistent impact in other areas

As far as development is concerned well we want all our prospects to develop. I see Boucher as a late bloomer and its still a wait and see .. I am sure a coach like Mann get him there in the AHL but where is there has to be determined .. He will have to isolate what he has to do to make the NHL and play regularly. Work on that and go from there. If he shows more to his game Mann will see it and try to bring it out.

 

[BondraTime]

Ostapchuk's hockey sense is probably his strongest asset. He knows exactly what needs to be done, and when. Never out of position, always where he needs to be. If he had the ability and skill to make plays he sees happen he'd be a top 5 pick. That's why coaches trust him out there in every situation

A less skilled version of Jordan Staal, Michael Handzus-lite

 

[bert]

Lazar vs Boucher

Lazar played a more mature game early on and showed more versatility. Lazar could be relied on in a shut down role and PK .
Boucher has more speed and power, hits harder and a harder shot.
Puck skills as far as being deft and deceptive are similar
Neither player is your zone entry guy or puck transporter
Boucher can make more of an impact on the game physically at the same age but is that enough?

Boucher has to learn to be a reliable defensive player imo to have the chance to make a consistent impact in other areas

As far as development is concerned well we want all our prospects to develop. I see Boucher as a late bloomer and its still a wait and see .. I am sure a coach like Mann get him there in the AHL but where is there has to be determined .. He will have to isolate what he has to do to make the NHL and play regularly. Work on that and go from there. If he shows more to his game Mann will see it and try to bring it out.

Agreed, we will have a way better grasp on what he is going to be at the end of next season which is hopefully a healthy one in the AHL. Sorry for everyone that is expecting him to be an impact player right away. He isnt an ideal top 10 pick but he could still eventually contribute.

Ostapchuk's hockey sense is probably his strongest asset. He knows exactly what needs to be done, and when. Never out of position, always where he needs to be. If he had the ability and skill to make plays he sees happen he'd be a top 5 pick.

A less skilled version of Jordan Staal, Michael Handzus-lite

He has some serious motor in him, got some Chimera vibes busting and driving through to the net last night. To me his greatest strength is how fast he is for how big of a man he is. Better puck skills than last year too. Really like the type of physicality and depth the prospect pool has. Just doesnt have any offensive studs. With the make up of Ottawa's top 6 forwards already there isnt a massive need for a skill guy. Even though it would be nice to have one.

 

[DrEasy]

His game is built for the 4th line of the NHL. Where you’re dumping, chasing, putting picks on net and hitting. Not skating with the puck or setting up plays with vision. He can still develop and move up into a 3rd, or higher, who knows. Not sure he’ll get PP1 time in the big leagues, but he is more than capable with the puck off his stick in the front of the net.

Is Austin Watson a good comparative then?