Prospect Info: Tyler Boucher (RW/LW) - Don`t sleep on Tyler Boucher

[aragorn]

If he shot “extremely well” I’d imagine he’d have more goals against 17 and 18 year olds in the OHL. A third of his goals this year are empty netters. His production is extremely disappointing.

I think there’d be far less opposition to him if there wasn’t so much cheerleading and hyperbole involved on the other side.

I think this is the problem between both sides, one side expects lots of goals & pts because of where he was drafted & the other side sees the potential he has as a game disruptor with his physical tools. If we forget about where he was drafted for a moment & imagine whether his type of physical play can help a team win games?

I think they have enough skilled players on the roster & this kind of player IMO compliments the team & expands the diversified skillset on the team. This is not to say that Boucher doesn't have some offensive skill because he does, he has a very accurate & hard wrist shot as well as good vision & his playmaking & nifty little passes to get them out of trouble is somewhat underrated.

IMO he is build for the playoffs & will help a team in a 7 game series with the overall tough & hard hitting playoff series. I don't think this team will get pushed around in the playoffs given they should have several of these kinds of players on the roster & the skilled players will be thankful for it.

 

[bert]

If he shot “extremely well” I’d imagine he’d have more goals against 17 and 18 year olds in the OHL. A third of his goals this year are empty netters. His production is extremely disappointing.

I think there’d be far less opposition to him if there wasn’t so much cheerleading and hyperbole involved on the other side.

So the bolded portion is a clear attempt to push a narrative. 19 year olds are the most common age in the league. He's playing at a 38 goal pace. In a season that has been disrupted by bogus suspensions (for being too physical) and injuries. While bringing a physical element unmatched in the league. Its not cheerleading when you look at it objectively.

Who is saying he wasnt at reach at 10? No one. The only hyperbole is coming from stat watchers that dont actually watch games.

All I have ever said is people need to be more patient before losing their minds about him. He isnt your typical top 10 pick no. But he does have an element to his game that is unique now. The league is soft. However the teams that go deep into the playoffs are not.

Would I have preferred a few other players? Absolutely. That isnt going prevent me from using the historical knowledge I have of the sport after watching and playing it for 30 + years when i evaluate the type of prospect he is.

 

[jhutter]

I think this is the problem between both sides, one side expects lots of goals & pts because of where he was drafted & the other side sees the potential he has as a game disruptor with his physical tools. If we forget about where he was drafted for a moment & imagine whether his type of physical play can help a team win games?

I think they have enough skilled players on the roster & this kind of player IMO compliments the team & expands the diversified skillset on the team. This is not to say that Boucher doesn't have some offensive skill because he does, he has a very accurate & hard wrist shot as well as good vision & his playmaking & nifty little passes to get them out of trouble is somewhat underrated.

IMO he is build for the playoffs & will help a team in a 7 game series with the overall tough & hard hitting playoff series. I don't think this team will get pushed around in the playoffs given they should have several of these kinds of players on the roster & the skilled players will be thankful for it.

I agree that there’s an issue on both sides. I can see how my post would be interpreted differently. My mistake.

The issue with the other side “seeing potential” is that their expectations had to be reduced so greatly to get to the point where they feel so positively about a player whose toolkit can be found in the later rounds or through a cheap signing.

 

[bert]

I agree that there’s an issue on both sides. I can see how my post would be interpreted differently. My mistake.

The issue with the other side “seeing potential” is that their expectations had to be reduced so greatly to get to the point where they feel so positively about a player whose toolkit can be found in the later rounds or through a cheap signing.

Show me how many actual power forwards there are right now in the league that are just floating around?

Everyone hated Lawson Crouse at 11 now he is a stud. Every team kills for a guy like that on their team.

 

[Dan Patrick]

I think there’d be far less opposition to him if there wasn’t so much cheerleading and hyperbole involved on the other side.

I come here for meme GDTs, hot takes, draft steals, and draft busts. NOTHING ELSE

 

[aragorn]

I agree that there’s an issue on both sides. I can see how my post would be interpreted differently. My mistake.

The issue with the other side “seeing potential” is that their expectations had to be reduced so greatly to get to the point where they feel so positively about a player whose toolkit can be found in the later rounds or through a cheap signing.

Going forward does the team need more skill or more grit? Both sides will argue their side on this issue which IMO is the fundamental difference. Your point about reduced expectations depends on what side of the arguement you are on. I accept that at 10th OA for some it should be a highly skilled guy, but those guys can flame out too. I also accept that they could get a physical player later on in the draft, but another physical player might not have Boucher's skillset, vision or hockey IQ.

I assume the scouts clearly feel this was the type of player they needed to compliment all the other young skilled players they already have. I think we are still 3 to 5 yrs away from seeing what Boucher is & whether he can help this team in a playoff series. This is a wait & we shall see argument & both could be right & both could wrong. He may never produce the pts one side wants while he could be exactly the physical prescence this team needs to get through a rd. What is more important? Both sides could & probably will have different answers.

 

[JD1]

Going forward does the team need more skill or more grit? Both sides will argue their side on this issue which IMO is the fundamental difference. Your point about reduced expectations depends on what side of the arguement you are on. I accept that at 10th OA for some it should be a highly skilled guy, but those guys can flame out too. I also accept that they could get a physical player later on in the draft, but another physical player might not have Boucher's skillset, vision or hockey IQ.

I assume the scouts clearly feel this was the type of player they needed to compliment all the other young skilled players they already have. I thinmk we are still 3 to 5 yrs away from seeing what Boucher is & whether he can help this team in a playoff series. This is a wait & we shall see argument & both could be right & both could wrong. He may never produce the pts one side wants while he could be exactly the physical prescence this team needs to get through a rd. What is more important? Both sides could & probably will have different answers.

I think Boucher plays some NHL games next season and makes the team out of camp the following season

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Boucher seems to be able to play WITH his line mates. Anderson doesn’t seem to be able to do that.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Don't think any true Senators fan is actively rooting against Boucher. That's a ridiculous take.

 

[OD99]

We seem to disagree on fundamentals, which is fine

Bouchers fundamentals or the fundamentals of being a fan?

 

[OD99]

Going forward does the team need more skill or more grit? Both sides will argue their side on this issue which IMO is the fundamental difference. Your point about reduced expectations depends on what side of the arguement you are on. I accept that at 10th OA for some it should be a highly skilled guy, but those guys can flame out too. I also accept that they could get a physical player later on in the draft, but another physical player might not have Boucher's skillset, vision or hockey IQ.

I assume the scouts clearly feel this was the type of player they needed to compliment all the other young skilled players they already have. I think we are still 3 to 5 yrs away from seeing what Boucher is & whether he can help this team in a playoff series. This is a wait & we shall see argument & both could be right & both could wrong. He may never produce the pts one side wants while he could be exactly the physical prescence this team needs to get through a rd. What is more important? Both sides could & probably will have different answers.

I would say to me the right answer is both seemed to be expected. The team said he was a physical presence who could score from distance.

The physical side is acknowledged by everyone but some (like myself) have toned down expectations for the impact his physical play will have at the NHL level where everyone is strong and he will be an average size player with average speed.

Add in that we haven't seen any example of + scoring ability and the entire package, at the moment, doesn't seem to meet the teams protections.

That said, I hope as much as anyone that he becomes an impact player one way or another.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

All I will say is that Boucher looks like a man amongst boys out there. Definitely will be a NHLer at some point.

 

[jhutter]

Going forward does the team need more skill or more grit? Both sides will argue their side on this issue which IMO is the fundamental difference. Your point about reduced expectations depends on what side of the arguement you are on. I accept that at 10th OA for some it should be a highly skilled guy, but those guys can flame out too. I also accept that they could get a physical player later on in the draft, but another physical player might not have Boucher's skillset, vision or hockey IQ.

I assume the scouts clearly feel this was the type of player they needed to compliment all the other young skilled players they already have. I think we are still 3 to 5 yrs away from seeing what Boucher is & whether he can help this team in a playoff series. This is a wait & we shall see argument & both could be right & both could wrong. He may never produce the pts one side wants while he could be exactly the physical prescence this team needs to get through a rd. What is more important? Both sides could & probably will have different answers.

I don’t think that you can ever have too much skill, especially on a team that hasn’t sniffed the playoffs in 6 seasons. Assuming you’re correct and the team doesn’t require more skill, it would still make more sense to draft someone with greater value, and find the (much easier to find) grit through a trade or free agency. Right now, Tyler Boucher absolutely would not return a 10 OA pick, and may not even return a first rounder. I’d have to imagine that every player drafted 5 players ahead or 5 players after would return the same pick they were picked with.

I’m certain he will be a strong physical presence, I just can‘t fathom spending that high of a pick for someone with a toolkit that can easily be found elsewhere.

 

[aragorn]

I don’t think that you can ever have too much skill, especially on a team that hasn’t sniffed the playoffs in 6 seasons. Assuming you’re correct and the team doesn’t require more skill, it would still make more sense to draft someone with greater value, and find the (much easier to find) grit through a trade or free agency. Right now, Tyler Boucher absolutely would not return a 10 OA pick, and may not even return a first rounder. I’d have to imagine that every player drafted 5 players ahead or 5 players after would return the same pick they were picked with.

I’m certain he will be a strong physical presence, I just can‘t fathom spending that high of a pick for someone with a toolkit that can easily be found elsewhere.

Would you have drafted Lawson Crouse? Probably not & now he looks like a pretty good pick & would be a great fit on Ottawa IMO & exactly what they need.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Bouchers fundamentals or the fundamentals of being a fan?

Just you and I disagree on certain things and it guides our opinions and perspectives. It’s all good, didn’t mean it as a slight

 

[jhutter]

Would you have drafted Lawson Crouse? Probably not & now he looks like a pretty good pick & would be a great fit on Ottawa IMO & exactly what they need.

I really liked Lawson Crouse. He also happened to be drafted a few spots later than expected, not a full 30-40 selections ahead of expectations. I don’t think Boucher has Crouse’s offensive upside.

I completely understand the need for grit, and am a fan of “heavy hockey”, I just feel that 10 OA was squandered with the selection of Tyler Boucher.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Would you have drafted Lawson Crouse? Probably not & now he looks like a pretty good pick & would be a great fit on Ottawa IMO & exactly what they need.

Why is crouse exactly what they need?

 

[Xspyrit]

It's totally legit to worry that we could have drafted a guy that might just end up as a NHL grinder with a 10th OA pick when we are desperately trying to get out of our rebuild and there was several other BPA possibilities. A Lee-Kopitar 2.0 scenario is also not something Sens fans want to go through again

Nobody wants Boucher to fail so we can say "I told you so?". I personally hope he becomes the new Chris Neil.

There's no debate to be had that we should have the right to express that worry or criticism, there's only some delusions of persecution factoring in.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

A big part of the problem people see is the draft position. I think that's where it starts. Its also the draft philosophy drafting a type of player that is seen to be missing or possibly needed down the road.. so that is a lot like drafting for future need vs the nebulous BPA. I think the majority of people think there were better players available so there is some criticism of the pick. The defenders of the pick quickly compare a very raw prospect to Tom Wilson and Brady Tkachuk , players who are true power forwards that are also very productive or players like Mike Fisher who could really skate and play great two way 3C for any team in the NHL. Others feel that is really stretching the ceiling and the projection. Everyone can appreciate a player that can skate , hit , shoot, fight and contribute in ways other than looking at stats. When he is seen as being criticized his boosters claim people can't see or appreciate those things .. its wrong to say that. Boucher D+0 to D+1 to D+2 is improving. I think everyone can see some improvement. So Its really about projection and the value you put on a 10OA pick and what you may think you can get later in the draft. 2021 was a weird draft and in my opinion a poor one for the Senators generally and to me it looks like their small old school staff just didn't achieve good results without the in person scouting available. Boucher is a small part of that , not the main reason I think that. At this point we have him. He is getting better ; What his ceiling is I don't know. I don't think its Wilson, Tkachuk or Fisher though. I think he's a late bloomer and it could still take him some time to put more of his game together. He could play in the NHL as a 4th line energy player as soon as sometime next year but I would play him a full year in the AHL and then re-evaluate his progression. He needs time where he can have the puck on his stick to become a power forward that can compliment better players. Jumping him into the NHL too fast he won't get that development.

 

[OD99]

Just you and I disagree on certain things and it guides our opinions and perspectives. It’s all good, didn’t mean it as a slight

I didn't take it as a slight. I am just curious.

What do you believe we disagree on? You can PM if better.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Why is crouse exactly what they need?

Six

foot

four

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

A big part of the problem people see is the draft position. I think that's where it starts. Its also the draft philosophy drafting a type of player that is seen to be missing or possibly needed down the road.. so that is a lot like drafting for future need vs the nebulous BPA. I think the majority of people think there were better players available so there is some criticism of the pick. The defenders of the pick quickly compare a very raw prospect to Tom Wilson and Brady Tkachuk , players who are true power forwards that are also very productive or players like Mike Fisher who could really skate and play great two way 3C for any team in the NHL. Others feel that is really stretching the ceiling and the projection. Everyone can appreciate a player that can skate , hit , shoot, fight and contribute in ways other than looking at stats. When he is seen as being criticized his boosters claim people can't see or appreciate those things .. its wrong to say that. Boucher D+0 to D+1 to D+2 is improving. I think everyone can see some improvement. So Its really about projection and the value you put on a 10OA pick and what you may think you can get later in the draft. 2021 was a weird draft and in my opinion a poor one for the Senators generally and to me it looks like their small old school staff just didn't achieve good results without the in person scouting available. Boucher is a small part of that , not the main reason I think that. At this point we have him. He is getting better ; What his ceiling is I don't know. I don't think its Wilson, Tkachuk or Fisher though. I think he's a late bloomer and it could still take him some time to put more of his game together. He could play in the NHL as a 4th line energy player as soon as sometime next year but I would play him a full year in the AHL and then re-evaluate his progression. He needs time where he can have the puck on his stick to become a power forward that can compliment better players. Jumping him into the NHL too fast he won't get that development.

Wish I could like this twice - especially the bolded part.

What we need most right now, is patience. Boucher is going to be a lot like Nick Paul, where I don't really project him to be a full time NHLer until he's 22 or older. Like SOA said, he really needs a lot of time with the puck for his development. And you don't get that in the NHL playing 5 minutes on the 4th line.

 

[Cosmix]

Six

foot

four

215 lbs.

Turning into a scoring forward who might get 25-30 goals and 25-30 assists each season.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I didn't take it as a slight. I am just curious.

What do you believe we disagree on? You can PM if better.

I’ll take a stab at it for you.

I don’t take being a fan very seriously because I understand that I know absolutely none of the important details that go on behind the scenes, and have absolutely no control over any of the outcomes. I enjoy things as they come and try and make the best of the time I spend being a fan of the team.

I also don’t believe that I am or could immediately be better at any of the jobs than the people currently doing them. I don’t expect anyone to put any stock in my opinions beyond shooting the shit about hockey.

Given that, it colours my perspective. While I can see reasons to criticize, I see no reason or value in doing it endlessly or even often. I love the silver lining, and have been really enjoying the rebuild. The team is looking to be growing into the exact type of team that have wanted us to be, so I use that to judge the GM for example instead of Gudbranson. I personally like to see how things pan out rather than steaming hot takes that inpretend never happened later when I’m wrong.

The same goes for Boucher. If you pay attention like some of us do, any positive comments about him are answered with the same moaning about draft position, coulda shoulda wouldas, and bitter shots at the GM, scouts, etc… and this is like a year later…

I can’t relate to folks who need to vent online all the time, or enjoy being shitty and negative online. I tend to push back against it at times.

I’ve said it a million times, but people who take a positive position in here are generally arguing from a reasonable middle position. No one ‘loves’ PD, or DJ, or EM, etc…. But there sure are a lot of people who absolutely hate those guys and more. Consider that preaching patience and prudence when replacing the GM is met with ‘Dorion lover’ type posts. One can only laugh.

I’m just one of those people who doesn’t always want to let bitter misery stand unchallenged. I’m definitely vilified and blocked for it, but such is life.

A big part of the problem people see is the draft position. I think that's where it starts. Its also the draft philosophy drafting a type of player that is seen to be missing or possibly needed down the road.. so that is a lot like drafting for future need vs the nebulous BPA. I think the majority of people think there were better players available so there is some criticism of the pick. The defenders of the pick quickly compare a very raw prospect to Tom Wilson and Brady Tkachuk , players who are true power forwards that are also very productive or players like Mike Fisher who could really skate and play great two way 3C for any team in the NHL. Others feel that is really stretching the ceiling and the projection. Everyone can appreciate a player that can skate , hit , shoot, fight and contribute in ways other than looking at stats. When he is seen as being criticized his boosters claim people can't see or appreciate those things .. its wrong to say that. Boucher D+0 to D+1 to D+2 is improving. I think everyone can see some improvement. So Its really about projection and the value you put on a 10OA pick and what you may think you can get later in the draft. 2021 was a weird draft and in my opinion a poor one for the Senators generally and to me it looks like their small old school staff just didn't achieve good results without the in person scouting available. Boucher is a small part of that , not the main reason I think that. At this point we have him. He is getting better ; What his ceiling is I don't know. I don't think its Wilson, Tkachuk or Fisher though. I think he's a late bloomer and it could still take him some time to put more of his game together. He could play in the NHL as a 4th line energy player as soon as sometime next year but I would play him a full year in the AHL and then re-evaluate his progression. He needs time where he can have the puck on his stick to become a power forward that can compliment better players. Jumping him into the NHL too fast he won't get that development.

Good post, but paragraphs man!!!!

 

[Alf Silfversson]

215 lbs.

Turning into a scoring forward who might get 25-30 goals and 25-30 assists each season.

Typical "good" player on a bad team.

He gets no minutes in our top 6. Not even close. These are the kind of players that get overvalued and end up being nothing with a new team due to reduced opportunity.

He's not a bad player but he's VERY far from what we need at $4.3M for the next 4 years.