Prospect Info: Tyler Boucher (F) - PART III

[coladin]

Ottawa drafted a niftier Steve Webb

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Ottawa drafted a niftier Steve Webb

LOL.

To be fair it's pretty much impossible to be less nifty than Steve Webb.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

Lawson Crouse LW 11th OA pick

I was thinking the same thing as the post above. Crouse was point per game + in his post draft year.

Has anyone ever made the NHL with underwhelming Junior numbers? I know Boucher's game is much more than offense but he is a long long shot to play in the NHL

 

[Ice-Tray]

Some people need a basic, simple reason their team lost so they can come to terms with it. Toughness is an easy one because you can't quantify it.

Those same people find it hard to accept objective criticism about any facet of their sports teams and just wish everyone would hold no opinion over a negative one.

1 team wins the Cup every year and it has been a very long time since legit, use your knuckles tough, was near the top of the list to help those teams win.

Also prospects in all cities get over analyzed now simply because there is so much data available. Showing a guy throw a hit that happens a hundred times a game is not a highlight nor an indicator of future success.

When Boucher starts to consistently do the right things that lead to goals then I have zero doubt the, "haters" who have openly stated they are disappointed so far but willing to give him time will provide the neccessary level of fawning to make all the fuss go away.

Ah, passive aggressive behaviour, gotta love it.

I could just as easily say that some people like ‘fancy soft euro play’ back in the day and so won’t ever lay blame where it should lay. They instead choose our goaltending, which still stands as some of the best playoff performances of all time stats wise, instead of the fact that we were constantly intimidated, pushed around, and couldn’t score when the checking ramped up.

The fact that it was a league wide theme year after year is completely ignored by people who like to criticize things out of context for the sake of it because they choose dying on the hill of being ‘right’ over common sense and the contextual realities of each situation.

Glad to see there is constant push back to the constant and nonesensical cynicism and negativity that is so pervasive in here. Glad to see that some people still remember that this is sports entertainment, that it’s supposed to be enjoyable, and that armchair GM’s/coaches/managers should not create and then believe their own hype, it’s just fan fiction for fun.

Cheers!

 

[OD99]

Ah, passive aggressive behaviour, gotta love it.

I could just as easily say that some people like ‘fancy soft euro play’ back in the day and so won’t ever lay blame where it should lay. They instead choose our goaltending, which still stands as some of the best playoff performances of all time stats wise, instead of the fact that we were constantly intimidated, pushed around, and couldn’t score when the checking ramped up.

The fact that it was a league wide theme year after year is completely ignored by people who like to criticize things out of context for the sake of it because they choose dying on the hill of being ‘right’ over common sense and the contextual realities of each situation.

Glad to see there is constant push back to the constant and nonesensical cynicism and negativity that is so pervasive in here. Glad to see that some people still remember that this is sports entertainment, that it’s supposed to be enjoyable, and that armchair GM’s/coaches/managers should not create and then believe their own hype, it’s just fan fiction for fun.

Cheers!

LOL - you should recognize it quite easily,, not sure you have another mode. Feels different when you think it is directed towards you, eh?

Just like the Boucher stuff, creating a narrative on your own. Pretty specifically said the idea it was our goalies that cost us playoff wins is flat our wrong and mentioned they had historical numbers and that we just couldn't score. Where do you get this stuff?

Finishing off explaining how people should think and how they should experience sports is another classic. Must be amazing knowing exactly how everyone should feel and act although I am sure it is a bit of a burden at times.

So to reiterate...Boucher needs time and vast majority of people are willing to wait on progress and the past Senators teams had very good goaltending and just got beat unless there is some evidence of them getting pushed around in those games that I just haven't seen.

They were young and skilled yes but hard hockey is more than punching someone.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Ah, passive aggressive behaviour, gotta love it.

I could just as easily say that some people like ‘fancy soft euro play’ back in the day and so won’t ever lay blame where it should lay. They instead choose our goaltending, which still stands as some of the best playoff performances of all time stats wise, instead of the fact that we were constantly intimidated, pushed around, and couldn’t score when the checking ramped up.

The fact that it was a league wide theme year after year is completely ignored by people who like to criticize things out of context for the sake of it because they choose dying on the hill of being ‘right’ over common sense and the contextual realities of each situation.

Glad to see there is constant push back to the constant and nonesensical cynicism and negativity that is so pervasive in here. Glad to see that some people still remember that this is sports entertainment, that it’s supposed to be enjoyable, and that armchair GM’s/coaches/managers should not create and then believe their own hype, it’s just fan fiction for fun.

Cheers!

Some of the best goaltending ever? Playoff goaltending SV% for OTT-TOR playoff series:

2000 - Tor: 0.942 - Ott: 0.905
2001 - Tor: 0.976 - Ott: 0.899
2002 - Tor: 0.917 - Ott: 0.918 (yay we won one! and damn near won the series)
2004 - Tor: 0.954 - Ott: 0.909

Toronto goalies, whatever else you might want to say about those series, beat the living shit (statistically) out of our goalies.

As for the toughness thing, I wonder why we cruised past the big bad Flyers in those days who were loaded with toughness? They had guys like Brashear, Tocchet, Primeau, Roenick, Richardson, Fedoruk and Leclair. They were undoubtedly a tougher team than Toronto (who they twice beat in the playoffs).

If we were just too soft to go against tough teams why did we beat the Flyers easily, in one case prompting Ken Hitchcock to say we were the new standard in the Eastern Conference? Why didn't the Flyers just bully us into submission given our overall softness? They were the toughest team in the Eastern Conference. What happened?

Seems to me there must be something else going on.

 

[OD99]

Some of the best goaltending ever? Playoff goaltending SV% for OTT-TOR playoff series:

2000 - Tor: 0.942 - Ott: 0.905
2001 - Tor: 0.976 - Ott: 0.899
2002 - Tor: 0.917 - Ott: 0.918 (yay we won one! and damn near won the series)
2004 - Tor: 0.954 - Ott: 0.909

Toronto goalies, whatever else you might want to say about those series, beat the living shit (statistically) out of our goalies.

As for the toughness thing, I wonder why we cruised past the big bad Flyers in those days who were loaded with toughness? They had guys like Brashear, Tocchet, Primeau, Roenick, Richardson, Fedoruk and Leclair. They were undoubtedly a tougher team than Toronto (who they twice beat in the playoffs).

If we were just too soft to go against tough teams why did we beat the Flyers easily, in one case prompting Ken Hitchcock to say we were the new standard in the Eastern Conference? Why didn't the Flyers just bully us into submission given our overall softness? They were the toughest team in the Eastern Conference. What happened?

Seems to me there must be something else going on.

Hmmm! I don' t recall our goaltending ever seeming bad (game 7 Lalime notwithstanding) in those series, just that the damn Leaf goalies went God mode. It does sort of support my memory of us not being outplayed or beat up though.

I know we had some incredible numbers against the Flyers.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Hmmm! I don' t recall our goaltending ever seeming bad (game 7 Lalime notwithstanding) in those series, just that the damn Leaf goalies went God mode. It does sort of support my memory of us not being outplayed or beat up though.

I know we had some incredible numbers against the Flyers.

Our goaltending wasn't bad per se. Toronto's was just lights out.

And while ours wasn't bad Lalime was not very good in the last two games of the 2002 series. Lalime played great against the Flyers but so did the whole team.

It was a weird era. We couldn't beat Toronto to save our life, Philly couldn't beat us and Toronto couldn't beat the Flyers. And none of us won a cup.

 

[SlapJack]

Goaltending absolutely was a problem back then. Martin structured the team play to focus on D first to limit the chances and fortunately Ottawa had, "the best right side in hockey" to still generate offence.

Lalime and company were like any average goalies in the league who could play well at times. They rarely stepped up and shut the door when it mattered, hence why Muckler brought in Hasek.

The team got a bit tougher as years went by, but that was also a huge problem especially against Toronto. I'll never forget Domi knocking out Havlat and nobody did a damn thing. Other players got shut down easily like Yashin. He was friends with Corson and Corson said at one point that Yashin was not tough to play against at all. His FRIEND said that.

The one guy that stood out was Alfredsson. Domi was asked who's the toughest guy he ever played against was and he said Alfredsson. He dished out everything he could and Alfie didn't break

 

[BoardsofCanada]

Lalime was decent in the 2004 series with the exception of game 7. But if you look at the shots, the Sens badly outshot the Leafs, in ever game. And the Sens still couldn't win. Belfour was in God mode that series and Lalime was just decent.

 

[HSF]

Even if he is crouse it’s still not a great pick when you can have a Barzal Connor or chabot

 

[Ice-Tray]

Most first rounder picks don’t end up being great players, that’s why each team gets a new one each year. I keep seeing the absolute cream being used as examples, of which we have one already in Chabot, but the reality is that even in the first round you’re more likely to get serviceable players than stars when you drop out of that top 5 area.

I get wanting every drafted player to be awesome, and right now, but that really isn’t a realistic expectation for any team. To read in here every team drafts stars and we whiff. Every diamond should have been picked by us, never mind the other 30 teams.

If you draft a player that can play 1000 games in the league in any role at 10OA you have far outstripped the the value of the pick.

A quick stat look has the 10OA making the NHL 88% of the time, but only 63% ever play 200 games or more. That really should lower expectations on what is available at 10, and how likely to get an NHL vet there. Pretty wild stuff.

By the time you get to the bottom 10 of the 1st round you’re starting to see 30%ish chance of ever playing 200 games. It’s no wonder why teams put less stock in picks and prospects than fans do, and why late firsts aren’t nearly as valuable as we like to think they are.

We’re looking at a 200+ game NHL vet vs a 30% chance that this picks turns into something close to that guy.

 

[Samsquanch]

If our (not so distant) future roster has Tkachuk, Batherson, Norris, Pinto, Formenton, Stutzle, Greig, Boucher, Sokolov and then some guys like Kastelic and Kelly on the 4th - and we have all of them playing a physical kind of game that ranges somewhere from being very rough to the grim reaper on skates - the Sens will be an extremely nasty and painful team to match up against.

And Boucher very likely will be in the middle of the pack offensively of it all, while being perhaps our hardest hitting player. His skating and shot will absolutely give him some opportunities to play top 6 one day as a complimentary winger with elite tools - like a reverse version of Mike Hoffman kind of sniper that instead makes contact at every possible opportunity.

 

[cudi]

LOL.

To be fair it's pretty much impossible to be less nifty than Steve Webb.

hadnt heard that name in forever, then this pops up on my twitter TL lol

 

[BondraTime]

hadnt heard that name in forever, then this pops up on my twitter TL lol

Can specifically remember being away for hockey when I was younger and me and my teammates were all watching him run around like a maniac in the playoffs while we were stuck in an airport in Quebec.

For a guy who was not a good player, he’s left a long lasting memory

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Boucher with a rebound assist on 67's 1st goal
and


3 points for Boucher

 

[Ice-Tray]

But he didn’t score a ton last year so he’s a bust and a reach and grrrrrr!!

 

[OD99]

But he didn’t score a ton last year so he’s a bust and a reach and grrrrrr!!

Less than 10% of 115 voters agree with this but that's just statistics getting in the way.

 

[Dan Patrick]

Even if he is crouse it’s still not a great pick when you can have a Barzal Connor or chabot

Right but the next four picks after Crouse weren't Barzal Connor and Chabot. I'd take Crouse over some players taken after him in the first round and obviously some are much better (didnt help that 2015 was an all time daft).

I still have hope Boucher can be an effective NHL player and im willing to give it time to see how effective he might be.

 

[Ice-Tray]

It’s ok, I just read the thread. Better data.

 

[HSF]

he must not be scoring

 

[Cosmix]

I was thinking the same thing as the post above. Crouse was point per game + in his post draft year.

Has anyone ever made the NHL with underwhelming Junior numbers? I know Boucher's game is much more than offense but he is a long long shot to play in the NHL

One too many "longs".

 

[Cosmix]

Right but the next four picks after Crouse weren't Barzal Connor and Chabot. I'd take Crouse over some players taken after him in the first round and obviously some are much better (didnt help that 2015 was an all time daft).

I still have hope Boucher can be an effective NHL player and im willing to give it time to see how effective he might be.

I think virtually all of us are hoping he becomes an NHL player and some of us are not happy with the choices made by our GM and scouts.

 

[TheDebater]

he must not be scoring

He will score tonight.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]