Prospect Info: Tyler Boucher (F) - PART III

[Alf Silfversson]

You know, I agree with your final point for sure.

I don’t think Boucher pick is all about the toughness, I think he was a pick the guys think can do both. He’s actually coming on quit nicely now since settling into his new team. It’s fine to stat watch and say he can’t provide offence, but we’re starting to see before our eyes that this may not be the case. I see no reason to be entrenched in that assessment.

The Jacque teams were soft as hell. We were skilled and incredibly soft. When the pressure increased we folded every year.

Having Chara would have been a huge difference in that finals over the Ducks. Team toughness was absolutely a huge change during Chara’s years and after.

I thought that we lucked our way to the finals with the 2017 team??? That’s not exactly a recipe for how to build a team now is it. The best players on Pittsburg are not soft perimeter players.

We haven’t nearly made as big a shift as you think on the toughness front from the Chara days. It looks like the team is brining together a core of players that are both skilled and tough/gritty/play hard and physical. From Brady to Stu, the guys are all gritty to some degree.

It makes sense to me though. You don’t want to have a few roster spots dedicated to tough guys who can barely contribute, you want the team toughness to run through the lineup with guys who can play and score. That’s essentially what we have here, and what we focused on during that last weird draft. It’s worked pretty well for us so far, and that includes Batherson, Norris, and Formenton as well.

To bring it back to Boucher, as other people, and Trent and Pierre have already said; Boucher was not drafted to be a 3rd or 4th line grinder. He was drafted because while being a vicious hitter with a very physical game, he exhibited the ability to score goals from outside the hash marks and had speed and puck skills to provide offence.

Fair enough to argue that there is fan confusion as to where that firm support comes from, but it is what it is. He’s starting to actually show some of that offence consistently now, so let’s wait and see and be open to the idea that maybe he ends up the threat our staff thought he could be.

Since this is a Boucher thread I'll just dispute the last part. He is NOT displaying any kind of offensive consistency. He has 10 points in 18 games. This includes a 3 point game and a 2 point game.

He is, in most games, not an offensive player. As a 19 year old in the OHL this is very concerning for a 10th OA pick.

He's young and can figure out, but let's not offer up misinformation about the player (he is not offensively consistent).

 

[OD99]

He was 6’ and 200 at 18. Doubtful that he’s the one prospect thy doesn’t grow.

Everyone has shared their doom and gloom, and light and brights. Seems like it’s time to sit back now and see how he develops.

It really doesn’t matter if people think it’s a shit top 10 pick right now. Boucher has plenty of time to put together all his tools and make management look smart.

It’s almost like we need an opinion registry on these kinds of things so we can notify and then move on instead of going round and round for 2-3 years.

It also doesn't matter that people want to suggest he is some ultimate hitting machine.

Who isn't waiting for him to develop? Where are these people posting as I haven't seen any and even if I missed some it would have to be a very tiny percentage.

People point out pure facts and statistics and a whack of people who want something to whine about turn that around to pretend there are haters who have written him off.

This borders on the ridiculous now.

He was a reach and his production is underwhelming post-draft and yes he is young and yes any Senators fan hopes he turns it around...this is not difficult to see or controversial in any way.

And this is a forum to discuss things about the Senators...not sure where you can find what you are looking for with the opinion registry but you can make a poll if you like.

 

[Cosmix]

He hit like a beast. Someone might want to have another look at his hit on Hedman (or the fight with Chara when he held up).

Neil knew how to take away Chara's height and strength advantages by grabbing Chara's sweater and hugging in close, thus causing a balance issue for him. Neil was a very smart fighter and fearless checker.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Not really at all what anyone is talking about man, your comment is just silly arguing to the extreme…. I’ll let that swirl down the toilet as a turd. Boucher isn’t an oaf skating around, and neither is Brady, just in case you missed the point.

As for the second part, perhaps you’re too young and that’s where you start remembering Sens teams. I envy that. The ECF Sens were retooled to finally get away from the years of soft futility.

Last year? Lol… You mean our team full of kids that we’re slowly developing at the moment? Geez man, I mean thanks for coming out.

Edit: I did change the last paragraph before reading your post to be less argumentative, but I stand by it.

the game has changed a lot. Not just from then but also in the last year. Rules actually matter now.

back in those years you could hook and slash and interfere at will. Not good for skill teams who rely on puck possession. Now skill is being rewarded more than ever.

I mean look at how many penalties Stutzle drew last night. They all were legit yet no way he was gonna get those calls in 2004 or even 2017.

Also those 2000's sens teams were a lot tougher than this team. They would feed them their lunch.

 

[mianjo]

Boucher scored the second penalty shot in the shootout last night with a very interesting move.

 

[OD99]

the game has changed a lot. Not just from then but also in the last year. Rules actually matter now.

back in those years you could hook and slash and interfere at will. Not good for skill teams who rely on puck possession. Now skill is being rewarded more than ever.

I mean look at how many penalties Stutzle drew last night. They all were legit yet no way he was gonna get those calls in 2004 or even 2017.

Also those 2000's sens teams were a lot tougher than this team. They would feed them their lunch.

I agree - the narrative that our teams were soft back then don't hold up to me. Sure Hossa wasn't going to fight anyone but he was hard on the boards and on the puck, same with Alfie, Arvedsson, Fisher, etc.

Everyone wants to have a simple reason we lost but in the end we outplayed those Leafs teams many times and just couldn't score...1 more goal in most of the series and we come out on top.

NJ didn't out-muscle them either, we missed chances to score and win. Winning the Cup is damn hard and there are lots of teams who had the goods to be a winner and just didn't get it done for a variety of reasons.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I agree - the narrative that our teams were soft back then don't hold up to me. Sure Hossa wasn't going to fight anyone but he was hard on the boards and on the puck, same with Alfie, Arvedsson, Fisher, etc.

Everyone wants to have a simple reason we lost but in the end we outplayed those Leafs teams many times and just couldn't score...1 more goal in most of the series and we come out on top.

NJ didn't out-muscle them either, we missed chances to score and win. Winning the Cup is damn hard and there are lots of teams who had the goods to be a winner and just didn't get it done for a variety of reasons.

More than anything in those days we were out-goaltended. Simple as that.

I also think that Jacques Martin was not the best at adapting his team's game when things weren't going their way.

 

[OD99]

More than anything in those days we were out-goaltended. Simple as that.

I also think that Jacques Martin was not the best at adapting his team's game when things weren't going their way.

Even the goaltending is a bit of a red herring as we had some pretty incredible numbers from that position.

I guess in the end that is it though...Cujo, Belfour, Hasek and Marty Brodeur did us in...pretty solid list of all timers there.

 

[TheDebater]

Kenny Walls on the radio mentioned how he has read on "social media and message boards" that many fans are calling Boucher a bust. He said he is disappointed and feels bad for the kid because it was not his fault that he was picked 10th overall but that he (Kenny) thinks that he has a ton of potential and thinks that Boucher's game is very well rounded that more offense will come in time.

Safe to say Long balls Walls reads this forum.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Kenny Walls on the radio mentioned how he has read on "social media and message boards" that many fans are calling Boucher a bust. He said he is disappointed and feels bad for the kid because it was not his fault that he was picked 10th overall but that he (Kenny) thinks that he has a ton of potential and thinks that Boucher's game is very well rounded that more offense will come in time.

Safe to say Long balls Walls reads this forum.

I see a lot of people pulling for him on twitter with very few negative comments .. among the people I follow.
I said early on that there was quite a bit of development required .. I am willing to see how he does next year .. he has a ways to go to be an effective 3rd line player in the NHL imo. He has the physicality in spades.

 

[Micklebot]

Kenny Walls on the radio mentioned how he has read on "social media and message boards" that many fans are calling Boucher a bust. He said he is disappointed and feels bad for the kid because it was not his fault that he was picked 10th overall but that he (Kenny) thinks that he has a ton of potential and thinks that Boucher's game is very well rounded that more offense will come in time.

Safe to say Long balls Walls reads this forum.

Wierd to call him a bust imo. Way to early yet even though he has not had the year you'd want post draft.

I think most people are just focused on his draft position, had he been picked early second round there wouldn't be so much negativity.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Wierd to call him a bust imo. Way to early yet even though he has not had the year you'd want post draft.

I think most people are just focused on his draft position, had he been picked early second round there wouldn't be so much negativity.

Basically this.

It would be completely disingenuous to say that he hasn't been a disappointment this year, but he's less than a year from being drafted. He has lots of time to turn it around.

 

[HSF]

its not looking good but who knows maybe he picks it up now that he has settled into the ohl

 

[SENATOR]

Boucher will have a shot at NHL first game at the age 23. This is not what expected from the first rounder. But is totally fine for 3-4th rounder Boucher is. Dorion was just off the leash with all what happened to Melnyk. Dorion incapable to run even McDonald's. Send him to the Russian army around Kyiv may be he will find some glory there.

 

[aragorn]

I'm sorry if you were confused by your own comment but if you think that people take well known sayings literally it must be hard to ever have a discussion.

I referenced it like the turn of phrase it is and basically told you that players won't play scared when Boucher is on the ice like you implied.

Do you have an actual response or want to try and play more word games?

Boucher doesn't intimidate teenagers right now so very doubtful an NHLer will be concerned with him at all.

I guess people don't like the word intimidation, but they certainly should have their heads up when Boucher/Tkachuk are on the ice. Boucher put that kid through the glass in that game a few days ago & the kid had to be helped off the ice. He hits to hurt as Tkachuk does & opposing players must be aware of them when they are on the ice or suffer the consequences.

Huh?

Who are you talking to with this post?

Of course players move away from hits. Most do it with ease because the player trying to hit them is an oaf.

But anyway, we may have had a less physical team that only made it to a Cup final and a couple of ECFs. Didn't get us very far. But last year we had the 2nd biggest team and LOADS of toughness. And we got....???

The yr the Sens went to the cup they had McGratton, Emery, Neil & Fisher on that team four guys who were all very good fighters. They also had some big guys in Heatley, Spezza, Volchenkov, Phillips & Schubert on the team along with others.

Last yr we had a shitty team as we do this yr & the big guys they have brought in are either at the end of their careers or borderline NHL players, that's on the GM. We all want better players, but that also includes better bigger tougher players too who can play & make a difference. Look at the difference between Holden & J. Brown both big, but one is much better than the other, same with Hamonic, we all want better players.

 

[Ice-Tray]

We were soft back in the day when the Leafs were embarrassing us. Really good team, but soft and fragile. I’m really not sure why some folks are trying to rewrite history. It’s a cautionary tale of how to build a team for the playoffs vs the regular season, just like the Leafs and Rangers had to learn that you also had to develop some cohesion and chemistry between the endless parade of stars coming to play.

It’s weird to see some people totally fine with dumping on todays team and prospects without issue, but if you talk some real talk about the Sens of old…. Whoa boy.

Boucher is going to be great for us, but people have this idea that 10OA picks regularly turn into top line players, and they don’t. Boucher living up to his potential will be a really nice pick at 10OA for us. If he’s a middle 6 tweeter guy skill and motor wise like Conor Brown, and also brings the physical game that we already see, well, that’s a great pick in my opinion.

 

[Poxsonus]

Neil knew how to take away Chara's height and strength advantages by grabbing Chara's sweater and hugging in close, thus causing a balance issue for him. Neil was a very smart fighter and fearless checker.

Stan Jonathan was 5'-8" tall. Few would have cared to take him on back in the day.

 

[OD99]

Some people need a basic, simple reason their team lost so they can come to terms with it. Toughness is an easy one because you can't quantify it.

Those same people find it hard to accept objective criticism about any facet of their sports teams and just wish everyone would hold no opinion over a negative one.

1 team wins the Cup every year and it has been a very long time since legit, use your knuckles tough, was near the top of the list to help those teams win.

Also prospects in all cities get over analyzed now simply because there is so much data available. Showing a guy throw a hit that happens a hundred times a game is not a highlight nor an indicator of future success.

When Boucher starts to consistently do the right things that lead to goals then I have zero doubt the, "haters" who have openly stated they are disappointed so far but willing to give him time will provide the neccessary level of fawning to make all the fuss go away.

 

[Yak]

Let's all chill a bit on this kid that is in a fish-bowl.

He probably needs a couple years down in Belleville with Mann to develop his game. Right now his game is being picked apart almost shift by shift.

His draft position means nothing! Aka under achievers or any overachiever.

We took many gambles in the past that worked out and many that didn't.

 

[NHL Dude 120]

As odd as this would be I would actually be in favour of giving him a few games next season say maybe 1-5 NHL games. He then gets sent back to the 67's. I think it would help his development if he sees what an NHL matchup will be like.

 

[aragorn]

Lawson Crouse LW 11th OA pick

 

[DueDiligence]

Send him to the Russian army around Kyiv may be he will find some glory there.

Another incredibly dumb comment.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Lawson Crouse LW 11th OA pick

yea and they missed out on Barzal, Connor, Chabot, etc

 

[OD99]

Lawson Crouse LW 11th OA pick

2015-16

Kingston Frontenacs

OHL

49

23

39

62

Put up those numbers in junior now 6 years later his best production in the NHL is this season @ 34 points (just over .5/ppg. Last year he had 4 goals & 13 points in 51 games.

I don't even know why this carries on? Isn't absolutely everyone in the camp of Boucher isn't doing great but give him time and let's see how he progresses?

 

[aragorn]

yea and they missed out on Barzal, Connor, Chabot, etc

It happens in every draft every yr where teams miss out on this guy or that guy. Lots of guys who go in the 2nd rd or later have turned out better than guys who went ahead of them including some guys who were never drafted making it over guys who were.

I assume with every team it eventully balnces out with guys they pick who were not projected as high doing so much better. Ottawa have done well with Stone, Hoffman & Batherson to name a few, they would have all gone much higher in a re-draft.