GrandBison
Registered User
- Jul 1, 2019
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The Canes could have traded him at the deadline, but he had a one year no-trade if the Habs sign him. You're left with an untradable RFA to resign à 6+ and Suzuki to sign too.
Two years later: Revisiting the Kotkaniemi - Dvorak swap
- Thread starter DAChampion
- Start date
the valiant effort
settle down, bud
- Apr 17, 2017
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CHwest
Talent sets the floor, character sets the ceiling.
- May 24, 2011
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Man when people get butt hurt here, they stay butt hurt.
Skip Bayless
The Skip Bayless Show
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HuGort
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Catanddogguitarrr
Registered User
The only player that matters at the time and still today is Danault. Best player of the 3 back then, best player today. KK was almost absent at the Cup Run while Danault was shutting down Matthews (Maurice R trophy), Connors and Marchessault. Taking all the most crucial FO and controling the center ice. He still does that today with any Kings winger to play with. LA Kings are top of the league right now while Dvorak and KK sucks. Kings are looking at the future Cup Run. Not in 3 or 4 or 6 years, no, next spring 24, 25 or 26,
But to compare only Dvorak and KK, I prefer KK. Younger and still have some potential. And sometimes KK drop gloves, well, not like Tkachuk, oh well let's forget Tkachuk I wrote here I wanted him a soon as there was a thread about that draft.
Imagine today we have Danault, KK, Lehkonen, Toffoli and the 1rst Dvorak cost us. Plus Suzuki, Caufield, Dach and Ghule. Jeezus Christ I'm depress ! What a disaster !
But to compare only Dvorak and KK, I prefer KK. Younger and still have some potential. And sometimes KK drop gloves, well, not like Tkachuk, oh well let's forget Tkachuk I wrote here I wanted him a soon as there was a thread about that draft.
Imagine today we have Danault, KK, Lehkonen, Toffoli and the 1rst Dvorak cost us. Plus Suzuki, Caufield, Dach and Ghule. Jeezus Christ I'm depress ! What a disaster !
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Catanddogguitarrr
Registered User
Not sure but an nhl team I would like to watch. It's not fun to watch a shameful team.
Whitesnake
If you rebuild, they will come.
- Jan 5, 2003
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Kotkaniemi could never add a point for the rest of his life, that entire trade/move will still be known as one of the worst.
f*** that goofy kid in 2021 and going into 2024
Oh this is going to get bumped next time he goes on a 7 point in 9 game heater
How could you have kk and Carolinas first that went to Arizona for Dvorak?
le_sean
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- Oct 21, 2006
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Catanddogguitarrr
Registered User
Ok, now I understand why I sucked in maths when I was a kid.
No Dvorak means we have that first ?
NobleSix
High Tech Low-Life.
Still glad we didn't match that offer sheet. It was the right decision not to match. KK blows.
The big f*** up was trading the picks for Dvorak. Pretty bad.
The big f*** up was trading the picks for Dvorak. Pretty bad.
MasterD
Giggidy Giggidy Goo
- Jul 1, 2004
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Yes.
KK's fine enough, but not the difference maker we need to contend.
Dvorak I don't mind on the 3rd line, but we overpaid both in picks and salary.
- Jul 21, 2022
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hes only playing 14 mins a night, thats 1.95 pts per 60 mins
Suzuki is at 2.49 pts per 60 mins
Kotka plays 1/4 of Suzuki's PP time. Suzuki scored 50% of his points on the PP and kotka only 2 pts.
Im not trying to defend Kotka nor compare him to Suzuki but it seems to me he's alot more efficient in 5v5 than our current best offensive player
salbutera
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- Sep 10, 2019
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Need to normalize in apples to apples comparison:
- Suzuki faces tougher opposition line than KK
- overall team offensive depth on Canes > Habs
HuGort
Registered User
KK should never been drafted. Timmins just could not judge offensive talent. He missed numerous numbers of them over the years
nhlfan9191
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- Aug 4, 2010
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He’s not a very good player. Bergevin made a lot of really bad moves when he was here but letting go of Kohtkaniemi because he didn’t want to overpay or commit a decade to a depth player who hadn’t accomplished anything yet wasn’t one of them. What he did following with Dvorak was the crime.
Catanddogguitarrr
Registered User
If Bergevin started negociating with Danault during the season and treat him well, pay him 5,5 M instead of losing a 1rst and sign Dvorak for 4,5 M, things would be different today. Today, no young wingers developp having Dvorak as a center, while Danault fits well with whoever plays on his wing at LA. Kotka was and is still is today an obscur 3rd line center, who looks better cuz Carolina is such a better team than Habs, a team with depth.
The biggest mistake was letting Danault walk and treat him like if he was a peice of sh*t. You know, it happens when a quebecer acts like a pr*ck with another quebecer, what happened is a proof.
nhlfan9191
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- Aug 4, 2010
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I could’ve lived with letting Danault walk. Bergevin had no vision. All the vets that took us to a SCF were broken beyond repair after it. We knew Price and Weber, who were the two main pieces of the core would likely never play again so it made no sense trying to patch the team. Yet they did it anyways making panic moves to avoid a rebuild that was inevitable. Classic case of a GM being approved by incompetent ownership making moves to save his own hide instead of putting the well being of the team ahead.
Increasing ice-time doesn't automatically turn bottom-six players into top-six players. If it did, every 3rd line forward could score 60 points by giving them an extra 5-6 minutes.
Kotkaniemi was given time in the top-six, but couldn't sustain that level of play.
Depends what you mean by progress. Players learn to play smarter, but their style and production range establish themselves after a few years. Kotkaniemi is a young veteran in his sixth full season. He could be one of those rare players who finds a new gear after years in the NHL, but chances are this is who he is.
Whitesnake
If you rebuild, they will come.
- Jan 5, 2003
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People have to make the difference between value and actual production. When you are a GM, that's what you deal and trade for. Value. Yes, there will be hits and misses. We f***ed up Kotkaniemi value by letting him go for nothing. And we f***ed up in value by giving so much more for Dvorak because of JK and Danault departure, Bergevin panicked.
That whole debacle was a clusterf*** in value. No matter if JK retires tomorrow and becomes a car salesman.
That whole debacle was a clusterf*** in value. No matter if JK retires tomorrow and becomes a car salesman.
26Mats
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- Jun 23, 2018
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It was more about letting Danault walk for nothing over 500k, and during the negotiations in the middle of the season when Danault was in a slump planting a story in the media that Danault turned down 5M AAV, thus turning the fanbase against him, then turning around and giving up a 1st and an early 2nd for Dvorak. So it ended up being choosing Dvo over Danault+1st+2nd. Really dumb. But really great for getting MB fired and initiating a proper rebuild. So in the end I love the move. And I love Danault and 1sts and 2nds, and I'm not so in love with Dvo.
The KK part doesn't look like a huge win for either side. Kk looks to be on track to be about worth a late 1st and an early 2nd, and his cap hit of about 5M AAV long term should be the right cap hit for what he brings. I knew at the time when he signed the 1 year 6M deal that if he didn't produce that year, in the following summer he could sign a longer term deal at a lower cap hit. Which unsurprisingly to me ended up being the case, even though most posters in our forum went on and on about how he would have arbitration rights, and that his qualifying offer would have to be at least 6M, and so there was no way he would sign for a cap hit under 6M going forward.
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