Kings can swap prospects for prospects, but only from position of strengths.
They could trade their center prospects for elite goalie prospect and elite physical defensemen with size and mobility.
Value of: Turcotte to NYR
- Thread starter bfaust30
- Start date
Kings can swap prospects for prospects, but only from position of strengths.
They could trade their center prospects for elite goalie prospect and elite physical defensemen with size and mobility.
I agree.
If Kravtsov come to team camp next year and shows what he got, we have a total different conversation
1. I meant if we keep Lindy HE is the one shifted to 4LW not Robertson.
2. Fair ? as to 4th line. I want what works, and size is only one factor, as is tenacity. Howev, we also have to juggle the rest of the lineup, and all of that is, like it or not, subordinate to the cap.
We can get out ahead of the cap, or put it off, and then it will be more expensive, one way or the other, to manipulate the roster to be ahead of cap compliant.
Accordingly, mindful we ideally want balance if it can be manufactured, should try for 3 guys big to clear the crease and 3 to be QB/shooters.
With that in mind, and keeping natural L-R balance, long term that is:
Robertson [bigger version of Lindy & he's elc] - Fox
KAM - Schneider
Nemeth - Nils
At some pt I would look at Jones production in a vaccum vs his return vs trading KAM instead
Obv if Robertson disappoints -- which is not the current projection -- then it could be him who gets dealt.
I agree. We should keep this polite and either look at much lower pieces for lower returns [i.e., you need LD, both stopgap and if possible beyond] then maybe something like Hajek + Reunanen for Madden could work.
We should hold off discussion on all top pieces for at least a couple of months.
NY situation is muddied by Krav, and we are not giving him away for a 2nd. To resolve this, we need to deal coupla vets and create a roster spot and then take it from there.
With his value sufficiently showcased, Krav will be on the table later this season, not before, unless someone wants to make a top offer early.
Ballpark it is.
But I'd prefer the larger Villardi instead of Turk [tho I remember fondly the good play of his dad] and I'd want a small + coming back.
Good luck.
You are entitled to WANT that posture of return.
Howev, wanting and getting are 2 dif things.
I am not your enemy here.
Your adversary is the law of supply and demand.
You don't want only quality, you have stringent measures for those level D and they are few and far between.
Hence they are rarely available,
Hence rarer still are they available at an acceptable overpayment -- a wince, but one that does not gut the team.
IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF
Trouba could be bribed to go LA now [theoretically they can create a gig for her at Cedars-Sinai or others to her liking]
then we could start a thread
Trouba to LA for _________
not applicable at present other than as a theoretical exercise
Trouba could be bribed to go LA now [theoretically they can create a gig for her at Cedars-Sinai or others to her liking]
then we could start a thread
Trouba to LA for _________
not applicable at present other than as a theoretical exercise
- Jul 28, 2011
- 16,062
- 10,771
The guy they just extended for 3 years x 3 million, playing first pairing D-minutes with Fox, is going to get shoved to the 4th line(LW Role) because a bigger body in Robertson (On an ELC) is going to replace him in the line-up with Fox? I'm sorry, Bern. I try, I really try. I just can't seem to not respond when you have so much ridiculousness in your post. I try really hard. I just can't do it.
Have you ever thought about playing East-Side Hockey Manager, Hockey Legacy Manager, or Fantasy Hockey Manger? You might enjoy it.
Have you ever thought about playing East-Side Hockey Manager, Hockey Legacy Manager, or Fantasy Hockey Manger? You might enjoy it.
Hi Bern
I am not your enemy either.
Your adversary is the law of supply and demand as well.
You can try to get elite center prospects without overpayment and they are almost never available…
objectively, nothing ridiculous about it at this pt.
If Robertson begins to fail, which is not expected, then a re-think is in order.
However, more likely he is a stud, a bigger version of the mobile but also rock solid Lindgren on an elc.
There is zero reason to not replace Lindgren if an offer is high enuf. You maintain a personal preference, which is your right.
But your preference does not invalidate the correct logic and value I have presented on paper of selling high on Lindy to create space for Robertson
I have my doubts that Blake could be bribed to trade for Trouba.
polite concur
just one factually correct observation...
despite many with a misconception and pressing NY to get a stud C prospect now, while that would be nice and welcomed at the right price, that is something we are NOT forced to do.
Once Zib signed w/that NMC, it is:
Zib
Chytil
Morgan/Kravtsov
Blais/Rooney ++
as our pivot options
we also have Strome atm, but he is gonna have to go just like Buch; can't afford him long term, and it makes sense to go younger.
So unless there is a meeting of the minds -- which do not align at present -- there is no urgency for either side to make a deal.
Our only real pressure in the current equation, other than finding NHL roster spot for Krav, is to hope we can coax Trouba after this year to waive his NMC. Other than that, there is a place for every asset and every asset has its place.
that adds to my saying "theoretical exercise"
howev, whether the bribe was by Blake or Dolan with the other chipping in, JT is the large guy you want, although he is righty not lefty
- Jul 28, 2011
- 16,062
- 10,771
I do not believe JT is the large guy Kings want.
LA do not want every big defensemen they can get.
Here we go, now we have a discussion.
A trade in lower ranks could really benefit both teams.
If we could change Reunanen into Gauthier i would agree to a deal.
Nothing wrong with Reunanen, we just have many guys like him in our system.
Richter35
Registered User
- Oct 30, 2006
- 1,545
- 65
Trouba is not getting moved. He’s been a rock so far and is our best D behind Fox.
The fastest the rangers even think about moving him is in 3 seasons when his NMC turns into a modified NTC. They might not even move him at that point.
6”3 right handed D with a mean streak will always be in demand if they can eat top4 heavy minutes.
Trouba is only 27, will be 32 at the end of his deal. Judging by some of the Salaries signed by some D in the offseason, drury won’t really have to bribe anyone to move Trouba if he goes that route.
Moving Trouba early is a utopian vision a few ranger fans think is going to happen so we have enough spots for all our homegrown D on cheap contracts. It’s not realistic, and 100% not going to happen.
The truth is we don’t have enough spots for everyone.
We have Lindgren/Fox/Trouba/Miller/Schneider/Robertson/Jones/Lundkvist/Nemeth
Competing for 6 spots in the next 2years. A guy like skinner can also make a solid 3rd pair D down the line.
For a fact this is whose staying for the next 3 seasons and probably beyond.
Lindgren-Fox
??-Trouba
??-Schneider
I can say without a doubt, Schneider isn’t going anywhere. He’s the only 1 with the size/mean streak/heavy hitting minute eating D that will be Trouba’s eventual replacement. No one else in the system has a similar skill set.
Robertson is huge and moves the puck well too. But he’s going to be more of a positionally sound Shut down D like vintage Marc Staal.
He’ll use his body, but he’s not going to lay you out like Schneider.
Miller is a wild card. Some nights he looks all works, some nights dumb rookie mistakes. He’s got the size/skill/skating combo that makes people drool.
Still super young, could wind up being the best next to fox. Time will tell.
Jones and Lundkvist are very good D prospects that are average size, move the puck well, and defend well. Both are works in progress but the talent is there..
LA is going to run into a similar problem at fwd/center. Too much good personnel and not enough spots. I’m guessing you guys too have your share of fans who think your top 9 is going to be totally home grown....
The facts are, this business just doesn’t work like that. Contracts/trades/UFA’s change a lot of the dimensions of the team.
Can’t overload it with talent, or 3rd/4th north south types. Your not going to win anything that way.
You identify your core, add some key pieces via trade, and UFA signings and secondary trades fill out the rest of the roster....
Last edited:
he is sllightly too expensive, tho that was top o the mark for his market price
he is righty and you specified lefty
and of course as noted he is nmc
other than that he has size, and after a year getting adjusted and them finding a partner for him, he is playing well.
size + playing well.
so what did I miss?
I mean yeah, he's a cut below McAvoy + Parayko, sure
but those are unicorns.
Who do you actually expect to get?
I mean before we discuss what you'd give up, it may be productive just to try and figure out who is available.
Then try to see if there is a match, and then go to price.
Thanks for polite response and Gauthier inquiry.
While he is limited to extent he is clearly a W and not a C,
I would not ordinarily put him on the table.
That does not mean he is untouchable.
It means more than coke for pepsi, unless/until G craps out.
I am on record as saying a line of LaF-Chytil-Gauthier
would be the bomb
Chytil and LaF have already demonstrated they look good together
I am waiting for them to listen to me and add JG to make that line.
Gauthier has physical size and speed which we obv both value.
If he were to become duplicative at some pt, then I'd consider the question open. Til then, no.
Here's who's available sort of above the radar:
Kravtsov
Hajak
Strome
Rooney
McKegg
Hunt
Geo
Bitteto
and the following W prospects
Rueschhoff - partial to keeping him at 6'7 229 but I'd consider an offer
Gettinger ditto 6'6, 218
Hunter Skinner is a D we like
Reunanen, but I heard you, he is duplicative to you.
Lindgren is adequately mobile for a big guy but not quite for you.
Anyone else catches your eye, fine, but they are likely keepers for NY
thoughts/offers?
In my opinion he is too expensive for very average defensemen without mobility and offensive upside.
I already told you what kind of defensemen Kings are looking for: elite physical defensemen with size, mobility and offensive touch.
Somebody like Sergachev from Tampa.
I know it is asking for a lot, but for this specimen Kings ready to give a lot.
I do not believe average defensemen are needed in LA
1. I specified Trouba only as intellectual exercise, he has full nmc control and is unavailable. Mentioned for discussion purposes only.
2. Disagree Trouba is "very average [etc]". Agree he is not elite.
he fits your profile other than as to elite, as he is 6'3, 200+
although more def than offensive.
3. We are not offering our elite/higher end guys except as I've noted. That has been covered, end of that discussion.
4. As to getting by your own word, "elite" from the rest of the league, good luck with that, that is trying to get a unicorn.
Unless you want to do Byfield ++ for Parayko +, I don't see it. And btw, I am being open minded here that you could theoretically put too much on the table for Blues to turn down. But it will require signif overpay.
If you are going by LD, the obv fit is Buf, with Dahlin/Power
but again, that is gonna cost.
Did you ask for Serg from TB?
What did you offer?
What did they tell you?
There's your answer...
Hmmm... on of your guys, like 2 posts above you, agreed to the deal so i will take it.
But just for giggles, let's assume you take Gauthier out of the deal, that leaves Hajak.
What would you want from the Kings for Hajak. Obviously Madden is out of the question when your half of the deal is being removed
In my opinion if Kings cannot get what they want/need they better do not make trade for the sake of trade.
that indeed may be reasonable:
"sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make".
the trick is to know which ones and when is 'sometime(s)'.
A trade merely for sake of a trade is not productive.
But whether or not one has to be creative, even to the point of being flexible, and even to the further point of concession [to a limited/reasonable measure, of course], all depends on
the profit of doing something
vs
the profit from standing pat with what you have.
Both have pros and cons, risks and benefits that vary with the situation.
There is wisdom in your answer, but there is also wisdom in having an open mind.
No prob w/Madden out. My offer involving Madden was Hajek + Reunanen, who was passed on.
Happy to oblige your curiosity for H only.
Hajek would be cheaper than he should be.
Player assessment:
History --- This is a guy who was a key piece in a big trade and played like an All Star for 4 games, got hurt, it was a shoulder injury you expect is healed and should not cause problem with return to this form.
Somehow, he went from borderline elite prospect to inconsistent mediocre, solidly good some games, not so much others.
Club mgmt imo botched it.
Givens --- he has size and big enuf frame with good not great skating,
He is a bottom 6 or reserve 7th guy.
He should have another 5 or more yrs at NHL level before when aged 30+ he may/may not make the cut.
There is no guarantee but if price is cheap he is a good buy low guy b'c if somehow that switch can be turned back on, then you've got a more valuable backliner.
Additional factors:
CF says you have 148k+ in space. Hajek is 874+ in salary. He can't be sent down w'o risk of waivers but if you want a stopgap w/an option to keep pending other salary moves on your roster, LA is good.
Rangers properly do not/should not give this guy away for nothing. Someone with need will pay. not a high price, but will pay.
Flip side here is NY has LD bodies, not all bluest blue chips, but has the position fully staffed. Hajek is expendable.
And also famously, NY needs, more than the cap recovery, to make a roster slot open for getting Kravtsov back to NHL.
Hitting the nail on the head:
Now that we have the above assessment, Rangers would prefer a pick/or 2 for Hajek/+. Any body NY takes back would have to either be elc to go thru waivers, or a dud we have to pass thru waivers, or deadwood we have to buy out.
So obv, prefer if possible just pick(s).
Assuming NY does not have to retain on Hajek or take cap/a body back, which can be discussed but then I want more for going thru that, then in a straight deal, this is what I ask:
A simple Hajek + 3rd for LAK 2nd is unfortunately not doable b'c we do not have a 3rd at present.
So closest otherwise is
Hajek + two 2022 4ths [NYR + WPG]
for
LAK 2nd [LA choice of year, 2022, 2023 or 2024]
I think that's very fair, in that NY gets higher pick even if it adds and LA gets assets now with option to delay payment,
if that does not fit close enough we can be creative with variations on a theme but that is it.
A pick that is too low or too high shortchanges either buyer or seller, so NY adding a lesser pick seems logical choice.
FSL KINGS
Registered User
- May 10, 2021
- 2,874
- 2,598
2nd is a little steep for an 8th defenseman that hasn't gotten a game this year. Hajek is out of time with waivers & still needs to develop. Doubt bad teams are going to offer a high 2nd or 3rd. Competitive teams aren't going to want to develop players in the NHL. A 4th might be worth jumping to the front of the waiver claim list.
Get that NYR holding onto that 8th D incurred some costs & Rangers fans are going to want some value. Just don't see it.
