Value of: Turcotte to NYR

[n8]

If any, Danauld will be the 3rd/4th liner
Turcotte also didn't fail to make the team, he got injured in camp.
In my opinion we let the centers duke it our first at center position before we move someone to the wing.
I would prefer a trade for a real winger over that though

LOL because Danault wanted out of LA wanting a bigger role in the top 6. LOL at Danault. Not you. Good to know about the injury. I know Turcotte is putting up points in Ontario. How come he's below Tynan in the center depth down there? (basing this off of Ontario Reign twitter lineups)

 

[Groo]

You can have a failed first in Kravtsov. The add to Robertson is not a new first. Vilardi isn’t that great.

I'm not a Kings fan. And even as a Sharks fan I could see that offer was way light

 

[Lt Dan]

LOL because Danault wanted out of LA wanting a bigger role in the top 6. LOL at Danault. Not you. Good to know about the injury. I know Turcotte is putting up points in Ontario. How come he's below Tynan in the center depth down there? (basing this off of Ontario Reign twitter lineups)

Because Tynan is a seasoned vet teaching him the ropes

 

[KingTech]

Tyan is the reigning ahl mvp and hes also a vet. Turcotte is learning the ropes from him.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Turcotte KILLED it in camp and the coaches couldn't stop raving about him. He's down in the A playing huge minutes...no one who has seen Ontario would even bother to suggest that Tynan is 'ahead' of him in any meaningful way.

Kid is gonna burst onto the scene in a big way and I can't wait for the middle finger he's gonna give this whole forum.

 

[bernmeister]

Let's put it this way.
The Kings 1-5 (Byfield, Clark, Kupari, Vilardi, Turcotte )are untouchable as they come and only go for elite talent coming our way. (Think of Lafreniere)
I also put them into order how i see them.
Madden is slightly out of that group and available for trade, this is why the Kings people always offer him.
He would still be #1 Center prospect on other teams.

Everything after #5 is fair game and doesn't need an order.
Our needs is a scoring winger.
Please feel free to offer if you have something in mind.

Madden is grossly overrated.
No

You can have a failed first in Kravtsov. The add to Robertson is not a new first. Vilardi isn’t that great.

Em[phatically NO
Krav is not failed.
Circumstances have consipired, but that can be reversed.
He is 9OA, we are not giving him away.

Kravtsov and Robertson for Vilardi.

No, again, not giving away 9OA value

 

[KingTech]

Bern I am only interested in one defenseman and if the value isnt right I will no longer have interest in him. I have interest in Matthew Robertson. I would be willing to give one of Madden Thomas or Anderson dolan. If this is not acceptable then we shake hands and stop this non sense This King fan has no interest in any other defenseman so u can take me off the list for us discussing a nyr d to la.

 

[bernmeister]

I really tried to stay out of this because this was directly between you an him.... but you just make it impossible.

He gave you 2 parameters, over 6'1 and offensive talent.
You offer under 6'1 and stay at home without any offensive instinct.

Can you at least acknowledge that you just try to sell regardless what the other parties need is?
I mean, what answer do you expect? He told you, he want X and you answer with, i have Y. Do you even remotely expect a yes?

I make no apology.
I asked if the guidelines were hard or flexible.
It was a fair ?.
Lindgren is an inch shorter and less than 10 lbs under your requirements,
he plays tough and with mobility.
He is not a one dimensional at best bigger Ristolainen.

As to the offense, you guys are moving the goal post, which is fine, but don't try to bite my head off for it, b'c bern gives as good as he gets.

You have been seeking Miller
Miller is not an offensive D
Indeed, Lindgren has shown small flashes this season of strategically only joining the play and contributing,
But neither is an offensive D, either shooter or playmaker.

What you apparently now want is a unicorn, which doesn't exist beyond the handful that are unavailable.

@bernmeister the player i have a mild interest in if available is Matthew Robertson he sorta fits what I am looking for He is stuck behind all ur other defensive prospect with little hope of moving up imo. I think he would be worth a role of the dice of a prospect in the Madden range of players. I know Madden is not the prospect in the realm of Turcotte or Vilardi but hes a solid prospect with 2 c upside is there a match there?

Thank you for the polite inquiry.
No, Robertson is who we keep when we either deal Lindgren, or push him to 4LW if nec.

Rangers do not have surplus elcs, and Robertson, Schneider, and Nils are all needed b'c they fit a specific need.
The exception is Jones b'c he is a lefty Fox clone, but understandably the market wants to see him do stuff in NHL before his value maxes. So unless someone gives us something approaching that now [we can consider a reasonable discount] we will work him into the lineup over the next year or 2.

We understand because he is sub 6 foot and not as beefy he is not a target for LA and no recent offers [this yr] have been made by me [and I believe most other NYR fans] for Jones to LA

zero interest in Madden

I am well aware that he talks about Lindgren.
If that is your top defender, you guys are in a lot of trouble.

Beside that we never proposed Vilardi for Lindgren.
It's always the same person trying to get our top youngsters, offering not needed and not wanted stuff.

I'll just say you are sadly mistaken.
Lindgren is typically not available.
If we even consider to put him on the table, it is to sell high -- which his playing to date evidences he commands

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Madden is grossly overrated.
No

By who

I guarantee you haven't read or heard his name since he left Vancouver.

 

[bland]

Madden is grossly overrated.
No



Em[phatically NAO
Krav is not failed.
Circumstances have consipired, but that can be reversed.
He is 9OA, we are not giving him away.



No, again, not giving away 9OA value

You know this whole 9OA value stuff doesn't actually apply to the real world, right?

Once that pick is spent, the value of the asset isn't set at some predetermined level for years just "because" of where he was drafted. Its just a talking point compared to development.

You spent a lot of money (9OA) on shiney new toys (Kravtsov) that aren't as valuable to the kid across the street (other NHL teams) now (2021) as they were to you when you first got them (2018).

 

[bernmeister]

Bern I am only interested in one defenseman and if the value isnt right I will no longer have interest in him. I have interest in Matthew Robertson. I would be willing to give one of Madden Thomas or Anderson dolan. If this is not acceptable then we shake hands and stop this non sense This King fan has no interest in any other defenseman so u can take me off the list for us discussing a nyr d to la.

thanks for the offer
pass
no

 

[bernmeister]

You know this whole 9OA value stuff doesn't actually apply to the real world, right?

Once that pick is spent, the value of the asset isn't set at some predetermined level for years just "because" of where he was drafted. Its just a talking point compared to development.

You spent a lot of money (9OA) on shiney new toys (Kravtsov) that aren't as valuable to the kid across the street (other NHL teams) now (2021) as they were to you when you first got them (2018).

He hasn't gotten a fair shot, and understandably is pissed.
He's not without any blame, but I get where is coming from.

Lias Andersson got all kinds of undeserved opportunity playing w/Kreider, Zib, Panarin and other top guys. He failed. He is a guy who was not deserving of draft pedegree. He had full chances, and effed it.

Krav did bang up job finished strong Russian league came here coach said "he is not a 4th liner" yet played him on the 4th line w/scrubs. Then, why no scoring production.

This is a guy who on paper and in high level international competition has demonstrated pivot skills/ability. We should have last year, and continuing now, be giving him opportunity w/higher end guys to show he can C.

This is not a Lias.
This is not a bum.

Once he gets fair and accurate chance for decent amount of time, then yes we can judge on that and not draft order.
Until then, while scouts can be wrong, presume draft braintrust is correct and he is approx 9OA value.

We are not giving him away.

And NY should not be seeking Turcotte who will not be cheap.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

Once he gets fair and accurate chance for decent amount of time, then yes we can judge on that and not draft order.
Until then, while scouts can be wrong, presume draft braintrust is correct and he is approx 9OA value.

That is not how trade value works. This guy is now in his d+4 season. There reaches a certain point in player development when your draft position no longer holds any stake in your trade value. And that is now the case with Kravstov as he's a top-10 pick who has yet again failed to make his roster 4 years after being drafted. You're not getting a top-10 pick value back for him, and if that's what you expect then you're absurdly biased.

Your Rangers also took Miller and Lundkvist in that first round. Should we value them both as late firsts still? No, because they have had good development and are now playing in the NHL. That works both ways, and unfortunately for you, Kravstov is on the other side of that.

 

[apocalypse]

You'd have to really overpay for turcotte. The Kings can't develop players so we need all the good prospects we can get.

 

[bernmeister]

That is not how trade value works. This guy is now in his d+4 season. There reaches a certain point in player development when your draft position no longer holds any stake in your trade value. And that is now the case with Kravstov as he's a top-10 pick who has yet again failed to make his roster 4 years after being drafted. You're not getting a top-10 pick value back for him, and if that's what you expect then you're absurdly biased.

Your Rangers also took Miller and Lundkvist in that first round. Should we value them both as late firsts still? No, because they have had good development and are now playing in the NHL. That works both ways, and unfortunately for you, Kravstov is on the other side of that.

regardless of whether we view it as you have it,
or if we consider there are extenuating circumstances that have denied his ability to get on the roster which have nothing to do with his ability,

the bottom line here is if he's smart Drury will wait until there is a roster spot [sell Strome] which has had to wait until clubs settle their rosters.
Unless he gets better offer before, they will finally play Krav w/a listers, pref including at pivot as I suggested.
His production apparent after such showcase, we will THEN deal him.
He's not going cheap.

 

[Kurrilino]

regardless of whether we view it as you have it,
or if we consider there are extenuating circumstances that have denied his ability to get on the roster which have nothing to do with his ability,

I always here about those extraordinary circumstances why Kravtsov didn't make the team for 4 years now.
Would you be so kind to enlighten us, why a coach denies an elite winger to play on the team?

Is that because he takes up one more parking sport in front of the practice facility and they are out of licenses?
Or Kravtsov would like to play mondays at 2 p.m. instead of 8p.m. ?
What are those circumstances?

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

We control the Krav situation.

Until he goes home and never returns.

 

[jay from jersey]

Robertson right now won't fetch Vilardi.
This might change when or if Robertson makes the big league.

We should stick with what the Kings really need.
If there is no way to find a deal for Lafrenier, Kakko, Kravtsov, there isn't much to talk about

Cant deal Robertson right now. Him and Schneider are going to be 2 very important players. Can’t teach size.
I’d bet in a year in a half, Robertson could make Miller expendable...
La has some great young prospects and players, but I think the rangers trade Jones, Lundkvist, and possibly Miller before Robertson.
And Miller looks solid to start the year with Trouba

 

[KingKempe9]

Any GM trading a star player for depth should no longer be a GM

Not sure on that. Toronto could trade a star as they have a few on large contracts. If they can pick up picks and prospects and depth to improve keeping, defense or bottom six etc.

 

[kinghock]

Cant deal Robertson right now. Him and Schneider are going to be 2 very important players. Can’t teach size.
I’d bet in a year in a half, Robertson could make Miller expendable...
La has some great young prospects and players, but I think the rangers trade Jones, Lundkvist, and possibly Miller before Robertson.
And Miller looks solid to start the year with Trouba

If NY is not willing to trade Robertson or Schneider they can forget about LA best centers prospects.
NY surplus will get them LA surplus only.
It does not look like at this moment deal is available to satisfy both teams.

 

[TGWL]

Thank you for the polite inquiry.
No, Robertson is who we keep when we either deal Lindgren, or push him to 4LW if nec.

Rangers do not have surplus elcs, and Robertson, Schneider, and Nils are all needed b'c they fit a specific need.
The exception is Jones b'c he is a lefty Fox clone, but understandably the market wants to see him do stuff in NHL before his value maxes. So unless someone gives us something approaching that now [we can consider a reasonable discount] we will work him into the lineup over the next year or 2.

I really don't think the plan is to push Robertson to 4th line LW if we keep Lindgren. That 4th line spot should be a very easy spot to fill either through the system or through free agency if we really needed to just shove anybody there. What's your obsession with tossing anybody with size on the 4th line? NYR aren't investing his development to eventually put him on the 4th line. He's not an overpaid defensemen who they don't want to waive or scratch. If Robertson can't crack the line-up or we can't find room for him, he'll be moved before playing left wing on the 4th line.

 

[jay from jersey]

If NY is not willing to trade Robertson or Schneider they can forget about LA best centers prospects.
NY surplus will get them LA surplus only.
It does not look like at this moment deal is available to satisfy both teams.

Robertson+Kravtsov is pretty fair value for Turcotte . Both guys hit their potential, that’s 2 impact players for the kings s
I don’t think either team does the trade at this time though

 

[pman25]

I think if the Kings can deal one of Turcotte/Vilardi/Kupari as part of a deal to land a solid Top 4 D or established young player, like a Sergachev or something, they should do it.

The problem the Kings have is too many mouths to feed. Don't swap prospects for prospects. Lateral move mostly and you end up having to move them or someone else later anyway. The Kings should act soon though. They'll start to lose value if they sit in the AHL too long. This mostly only applies to Turcotte but when Byfield comes back? Andersson? Roster players like AA? They'll need to move some bodies soon. Even Ontario is getting crowded

 

[Mats26]

I think if the Kings can deal one of Turcotte/Vilardi/Kupari as part of a deal to land a solid Top 4 D or established young player, like a Sergachev or something, they should do it.

The problem the Kings have is too many mouths to feed. Don't swap prospects for prospects. Lateral move mostly and you end up having to move them or someone else later anyway. The Kings should act soon though. They'll start to lose value if they sit in the AHL too long. This mostly only applies to Turcotte but when Byfield comes back? Andersson? Roster players like AA? They'll need to move some bodies soon. Even Ontario is getting crowded

We got bigger problems now with the injuries to Doughty and Walker. They will try to address that first. I doubt it will be for a big name player but a vet who can stabilize the D for this year.

As far as trading Turcotte/Vilardi/Kupari.

Kupari took a few games but he is progressing at 3C already. Bumped Vilardi down. If he continues to improve he can be a nice asset to keep or move. Vilardi is a RW period. Unless he moves to a top 6 RW role, he will stagnate. Turcotte is not being moved. Byfield and Turcs will be the engine and sparkplug for this team going forward.

 

[pman25]

We got bigger problems now with the injuries to Doughty and Walker. They will try to address that first. I doubt it will be for a big name player but a vet who can stabilize the D for this year.

As far as trading Turcotte/Vilardi/Kupari.

Kupari took a few games but he is progressing at 3C already. Bumped Vilardi down. If he continues to improve he can be a nice asset to keep or move. Vilardi is a RW period. Unless he moves to a top 6 RW role, he will stagnate. Turcotte is not being moved. Byfield and Turcs will be the engine and sparkplug for this team going forward.

Yes I think they are just approaching a crossroads where they will have to decide about packaging some prospects for established players or trading away guys like Kempe/AA to let the kids play, granted those guys are RFA/UFA at the end of this season anyway so doesn't really matter. But it may benefit them to start this process now and make a couple trades, especially if they need a defenseman to replace Walker and Doughty going down.