Turcotte- time to worry?

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Mats26

Vet Movement - What's the Maatta?
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Turcotte has played a total of 50 pro games as a 20 year old and has 31 points. I'm not at all concerned about his production. If you look at pre-draft scouting reports, he was expected to be an ideal second liner with grit and leadership skills. Nothing about his development so far says he won't be that yet. Due to covid he's essentially been robbed of about 50-60 games of development, if he'd played those he'd likely already have had a call up by now.

Then they should of drafted Cozens to fill that role. I expect Turcotte to provide more offensive production because he simply isn't big enough, durable enough to fulfill being a gritty, crash and banger in the NHL. Unless we want to see him on IR for most of his career. They fed us a Toews comparison, let's see it.
 

kingsfan

President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
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Then they should of drafted Cozens to fill that role. I expect Turcotte to provide more offensive production because he simply isn't big enough, durable enough to fulfill being a gritty, crash and banger in the NHL. Unless we want to see him on IR for most of his career. They fed us a Toews comparison, let's see it.

At the time, Turcotte was the easy pick. He still may be once we give this draft five years to look back on, which is really the earliest you can judge a draft. Turcotte has missed how much time with injury anyway? He's missed 11 games between this year and last and are all of those actually due to injury?
 
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kingsfan

President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
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Apparently 50 pro games is too much time....shoulda been NHL ready 10 games in......

Exactly. Some fans around here bitch a guy isn't being developed right, then in the same breath expect us to trade away vets so we can play 20-years-olds 2o+ minutes a night because ice time automatically = improvement. It's like some around here think video games mirror real life.
 

Mats26

Vet Movement - What's the Maatta?
Sep 16, 2005
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At the time, Turcotte was the easy pick. He still may be once we give this draft five years to look back on, which is really the earliest you can judge a draft. Turcotte has missed how much time with injury anyway? He's missed 11 games between this year and last and are all of those actually due to injury?

5 years...which makes Vilardi a bust right? Top 5 picks don't need 5 years, they should be able to show some progression in 2-3 years if that. Sorry but Turcotte was selected at 5 and expectations are higher than most prospects because of that. He still has time to prove he can make it but he'll need to force his way on the team by his play not just by his draft selection pedigree. Like to see him on the club sometime this year to see how his game can translate to the NHL.

Pressure on him is also due to a strong draft class.
Was Moritz Seider the easy pick or the right pick? After Byram was off the board it should of been a much more broad selection. Sucks to see a future Norris trophy candidate picked right after. Let alone all the forwards in that draft class that have already excelled in the NHL or dominating the AHL.
 
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Raccoon Jesus

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Exactly. Some fans around here bitch a guy isn't being developed right, then in the same breath expect us to trade away vets so we can play 20-years-olds 2o+ minutes a night because ice time automatically = improvement. It's like some around here think video games mirror real life.


This shit again? You guys really need to stop with the bullshit red herrings. Go ahead and quote me any post from any time in this forum's history when anyone has said that.

It goes more like this:

" Turcotte isn't scoring as much as I'd like."

'well, Turcotte is being shoved down a line or two by Tynan/Burke/Frk/Tkachev and isn't getting PP1 time, even though he's outproducing everyone but the seasoned AHL MVPs at ES.'

"He needs to force mgmt to pay attention then"

'he has, he's outscoring everyone but the guys getting PP1 time. I'd like to see him get powerplay 1 time and prime scoring minutes next to scorers to really show out.'

"WTF you guys just want to hand him ice time? He hasn't proven anything!!!!1111!"


Imagine thinking asking for your bluechip prospect to get AHL line 1 and powerplay time is controversial...
 

King'sPawn

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Jul 1, 2003
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This shit again? You guys really need to stop with the bullshit red herrings. Go ahead and quote me any post from any time in this forum's history when anyone has said that.

It goes more like this:

" Turcotte isn't scoring as much as I'd like."

'well, Turcotte is being shoved down a line or two by Tynan/Burke/Frk/Tkachev and isn't getting PP1 time, even though he's outproducing everyone but the seasoned AHL MVPs at ES.'

"He needs to force mgmt to pay attention then"

'he has, he's outscoring everyone but the guys getting PP1 time. I'd like to see him get powerplay 1 time and prime scoring minutes next to scorers to really show out.'

"WTF you guys just want to hand him ice time? He hasn't proven anything!!!!1111!"


Imagine thinking asking for your bluechip prospect to get AHL line 1 and powerplay time is controversial...

I just want Turcotte to get time at LW unless they plan for him to be 3C for years to come. Then sure, keep him pushed down in the lineup in the AHL.

You know, actually get him playing in the role they may need him to play.

But that's bitching. And clearly we don't know the plan. Or understand development.

Everything ties back to excuses for why the Kings don't have legitimate scoring threats under the age of 25 in the top 6. Nevermind that Blake has been part of management for almost a decade, and he's in his 4th season as a GM.

Under Blake's reign, his top prospects at forward are:
Kupari - centering the third line
Vilardi - sent back to the AHL because they decided he needs to be a winger
JAD - in the AHL
Kaliyev - playing on the 4th line

His top forward acquisitions are: Danault, Iafallo, Lemieux, Lizotte. All NHL-ready at the time of acquisition.

So as long as the Kings let other teams do the development for them, Blake's doing great!
 

NikF

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Turcotte is a forward drafted #5 overall in 2019. Meaning he is in his D+3 season now (2019-2020, 2020-2021, 2021-2022). He hasn't played a ton of games in those seasons, but with his pedigree, assuming his developmental trajectory is at least close to what you would expect out of a forward taken there...he should be playing as *the* guy on the AHL team if he is not in the NHL right now.

If he is now in a "secondary" group in AHL, then what do you do next year? Finally let him be *the* guy in his D+4 season still in AHL? Or move him to a secondary group in the NHL? If the former, his development is stalling in AHL far beyond what would be ideal, if the latter, you've never even given him a chance to maximize his potential by being *the* guy anywhere, rather you are breeding him to be a secondary/support player through his key developmental years. Even if Turcotte winds up being a support player in NHL, you need to at least give him a chance as a primary/key player somewhere, to figure out what you have in him and maximize his full potential. And I would argue the purpose of AHL is precisely that. Ontario Reign should be Alex Turcotte's team right now, not a vehicle for Tkachev/Tynan/Frk's "too good for AHL, not good enough for NHL" performances.

Not to mention that Turcotte is a big character/leadership player, who would probably even flourish with an increased leadership role and pressure. To use Lombardi's famous "paint tiger stripes on a cat" quote in reverse here: are they trying to create a cat out of a tiger here?

It is entirely superflous having Athanasiou, Tkachev, Frk and then even a career AHL vet like Tynan. If they were worried the kids weren't ready and there was a hole on the NHL roster, they could simply solve that by playing a guy like Carl Grundstrom who is in that next age-group further up the line-up. The NHL team isn't winning anything anyways and at least you would see what that 21-24 Grundstrom age-group is capable of, they would also work their butts off and provide more of an identity than tweener skill players like Athanasiou or Tkachev.

It's kind of an odd arrangement, since it's clear to anyone sane that this team barring a massive luck streak is not getting out of the first round (maybe not even making the playoffs). So the question that invites itself is: why not play a few more of the unproven 21-24 age-group like Grundstrom, Lizotte, Durzi, Clague (when he was still here), Vilardi, Andersson, Kupari etc. above their "capabillities", since you are going to have to make decisions on them soon anyways. With a team that is not going anywhere, that is the age-group that should be getting a better look. Vilardi's career is dangerously close to getting off-rails, I would have rather seen him tried immediately at top line wing in the NHL this season than getting dicked around on 3rd-4th lines centering players of lower talent levels and then being sent to AHL. Try to bring his skill out by putting him on Kopitar's wing with an energy/skating player like Iaffalo or Arvidsson, or have Danault center him and do the heavy lifting for him. Maybe you find out Vilardi isn't a top 6 C, but he's a top line RW. That's still better than having a rudderless where-does-he-fit talent that is turning 23 this summer.

But now you're in this odd situation, where some who could warrant a look in a bigger NHL role are being pushed into limited usage, and the next group of players who should be key players in AHL are losing themselves in a mix with an abundance of career AHLers and NHL cuts like Frk, Tynan, Tkachev, Wagner, Burke. At 21, you want to see Turcotte being *the* guy there and seeing how he responds, not watching a top line of Tkachev-Tynan-Frk suit up in front of him. At 22 and with a positive NHL look under his belt, you want JAD to continue the positive development narrative, not play behind those guys in AHL. At 22, you want to give a high-end talent like Vilardi a look at wing with other top NHL talent. You want to give Lias Andersson one final extended look before saying good-bye, otherwise why get him in the first place? He doesn't work out, you move on quickly, he's 23 not 19. Grundstrom shows some scoring sense somtimes, he's not a top 6 forward, but it's not going to hurt you if kids aren't ready and you have to play him there for a few games instead of Athanasiou or Tkachev. I get that you need depth and vets to supplement the entire thing, but their mix and handling of players up front is really odd, a little better on D, but then they don't have bluechip defensive prospects there outside of Clarke who was just drafted. Last year they had a very thin AHL squad in terms of vet support, this year completely the opposite, a massive overreaction.

To me, it seems like somebody is not doing their job very well planning the developmental curves and environment for their prospects, it doesn't look like the way the whole thing is handled is maximizing the potential of them, whether it's young players at NHL level or those in AHL. The layering of age-groups and the opportunities each age-group should be getting (relative to the individual's upside of course) doesn't seem that well-handled to me.

And I can only suspect that this deficiency is a byproduct of trying to placate the NHL veterans with a competitive team, but as we can see it's having a cascading effect throughout the organization and they just can't manage to do all three things effectively at once: find out what they have with the young players at the NHL level, maximize developmental curves of their prospects, and ice a competitive team that would make NHL veteran players happy. For the long-term health of franchise, the obvious and only clearly correct answer is to abandon the last item, they shouldn't put much consideration on making NHL vets happy at all, since the team is not in a position to win now or in near future. This will also have only a positive effect on establishing the team's identity, character and energy and moving past the stale "glory" of an era that is long gone.
 

kilowatt

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Turcotte was an elite scorer on the USNTDP. He scored at a higher pace (34 points in 16 games — highest in the USHL) than even Hughes (48 points in 24 games). I still have hope that he can become an elite scorer in the NHL, but even my optimism has started to wane. Turcotte and Vilardi aren't too dissimilar in that regard actually — in his final year, he was second in the OHL in points per game (22 goals and 58 points in only 32 games!) but it hasn't translated yet.

I still think that Turcotte, health permitting, is a sure-fire NHL player, even if he does become a bottom six guy.
 

Raccoon Jesus

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Turcotte is a forward drafted #5 overall in 2019. Meaning he is in his D+3 season now (2019-2020, 2020-2021, 2021-2022). He hasn't played a ton of games in those seasons, but with his pedigree, assuming his developmental trajectory is at least close to what you would expect out of a forward taken there...he should be playing as *the* guy on the AHL team if he is not in the NHL right now.

If he is now in a "secondary" group in AHL, then what do you do next year? Finally let him be *the* guy in his D+4 season still in AHL? Or move him to a secondary group in the NHL? If the former, his development is stalling in AHL far beyond what would be ideal, if the latter, you've never even given him a chance to maximize his potential by being *the* guy anywhere, rather you are breeding him to be a secondary/support player through his key developmental years. Even if Turcotte winds up being a support player in NHL, you need to at least give him a chance as a primary/key player somewhere, to figure out what you have in him and maximize his full potential. And I would argue the purpose of AHL is precisely that. Ontario Reign should be Alex Turcotte's team right now, not a vehicle for Tkachev/Tynan/Frk's "too good for AHL, not good enough for NHL" performances.

Not to mention that Turcotte is a big character/leadership player, who would probably even flourish with an increased leadership role and pressure. To use Lombardi's famous "paint tiger stripes on a cat" quote in reverse here: are they trying to create a cat out of a tiger here?

It is entirely superflous having Athanasiou, Tkachev, Frk and then even a career AHL vet like Tynan. If they were worried the kids weren't ready and there was a hole on the NHL roster, they could simply solve that by playing a guy like Carl Grundstrom who is in that next age-group further up the line-up. The NHL team isn't winning anything anyways and at least you would see what that 21-24 Grundstrom age-group is capable of, they would also work their butts off and provide more of an identity than tweener skill players like Athanasiou or Tkachev.

It's kind of an odd arrangement, since it's clear to anyone sane that this team barring a massive luck streak is not getting out of the first round (maybe not even making the playoffs). So the question that invites itself is: why not play a few more of the unproven 21-24 age-group like Grundstrom, Lizotte, Durzi, Clague (when he was still here), Vilardi, Andersson, Kupari etc. above their "capabillities", since you are going to have to make decisions on them soon anyways. With a team that is not going anywhere, that is the age-group that should be getting a better look. Vilardi's career is dangerously close to getting off-rails, I would have rather seen him tried immediately at top line wing in the NHL this season than getting dicked around on 3rd-4th lines centering players of lower talent levels and then being sent to AHL. Try to bring his skill out by putting him on Kopitar's wing with an energy/skating player like Iaffalo or Arvidsson, or have Danault center him and do the heavy lifting for him. Maybe you find out Vilardi isn't a top 6 C, but he's a top line RW. That's still better than having a rudderless where-does-he-fit talent that is turning 23 this summer.

But now you're in this odd situation, where some who could warrant a look in a bigger NHL role are being pushed into limited usage, and the next group of players who should be key players in AHL are losing themselves in a mix with an abundance of career AHLers and NHL cuts like Frk, Tynan, Tkachev, Wagner, Burke. At 21, you want to see Turcotte being *the* guy there and seeing how he responds, not watching a top line of Tkachev-Tynan-Frk suit up in front of him. At 22 and with a positive NHL look under his belt, you want JAD to continue the positive development narrative, not play behind those guys in AHL. At 22, you want to give a high-end talent like Vilardi a look at wing with other top NHL talent. You want to give Lias Andersson one final extended look before saying good-bye, otherwise why get him in the first place? He doesn't work out, you move on quickly, he's 23 not 19. Grundstrom shows some scoring sense somtimes, he's not a top 6 forward, but it's not going to hurt you if kids aren't ready and you have to play him there for a few games instead of Athanasiou or Tkachev. I get that you need depth and vets to supplement the entire thing, but their mix and handling of players up front is really odd, a little better on D, but then they don't have bluechip defensive prospects there outside of Clarke who was just drafted. Last year they had a very thin AHL squad in terms of vet support, this year completely the opposite, a massive overreaction.

To me, it seems like somebody is not doing their job very well planning the developmental curves and environment for their prospects, it doesn't look like the way the whole thing is handled is maximizing the potential of them, whether it's young players at NHL level or those in AHL. The layering of age-groups and the opportunities each age-group should be getting (relative to the individual's upside of course) doesn't seem that well-handled to me.

And I can only suspect that this deficiency is a byproduct of trying to placate the NHL veterans with a competitive team, but as we can see it's having a cascading effect throughout the organization and they just can't manage to do all three things effectively at once: find out what they have with the young players at the NHL level, maximize developmental curves of their prospects, and ice a competitive team that would make NHL veteran players happy. For the long-term health of franchise, the obvious and only clearly correct answer is to abandon the last item, they shouldn't put much consideration on making NHL vets happy at all, since the team is not in a position to win now or in near future. This will also have only a positive effect on establishing the team's identity, character and energy and moving past the stale "glory" of an era that is long gone.


Hear, hear.

Another funny/sad aside that your post reminded me of is that they sent Vilardi down with the assignment to play wing--yet due to FURTHER terrible asset management, he's STILL played center half the games! Like how is that even possible?

This is why even when the NHL club is trending up I'm in a deep state of worry. They're trying to do too much at once and aren't doing any one thing particularly well, which is starting to look damning for the blue chippers.
 

kings11

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Then they should of drafted Cozens to fill that role. I expect Turcotte to provide more offensive production because he simply isn't big enough, durable enough to fulfill being a gritty, crash and banger in the NHL. Unless we want to see him on IR for most of his career. They fed us a Toews comparison, let's see it.
I’m starting to get the notion that the majority of people on here that are “worried” about Turcotte do nothing more than stat watch.
Yes, he’s a balls to the walls type of guy but his skill set is pretty elite when it comes to playmaking.. his vision, creativity, touch, IQ and hockey sense have all been on display this season in Ontario. His scoring is outstanding but the most revealing aspect of his game is his defensive side. I expected a good two way player but his defense is looking like it could be elite as well.
People that stat watch have done nothing but worry about the kids upside, those that have watched the kid on TV have come away feeling good about his progress while those that have seen him live, have come away impressed and excited about what he brings.. at least I have though recent comments have backed this up.
This is just another one of those pessimistic threads us Kings fans seem to always come up with..
Bunch of negative Nancies lol
 
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cyclones22

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The Kings compound bad decision by bad decision and because of it, they're crowding out their prospects in Ontario even. Did Wagner really need a 3 year deal? But they signed him to such a low cap figure! What a deal. Well, one season after signing him he's not even an NHL player and now he's in Ontario taking minutes away prospects because the Kings are paying him $1 million a year this and next. Martin Frk on another sweetheart deal. Got a Tkachev lotto ticket on the cheap and tossed it the bin after 4 games. Signed AA on a low cost deal then decided it was a great idea to double his salary and re-sign him when there are youth invested wingers in the pipeline ready to come up. Dumpster diving is back on the menu, folks. What this shows me is the Kings FO has no faith either in their development staff or their scouting staff. Why else are they signing all of these bridge players, not just for LA, but for Ontario too. At the minimum this ridiculous prospect pool better produce at least a couple of first liners and a 1st pairing defenseman. That's how to restore faith and shut up those of us who are dubious and terrified that they can't develop players.
 

Eagle Fang

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Oct 12, 2005
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Depending on what your expectation is of Turcotte, the only real concern is whether he can survive in the NHL. No doubt he can be a good top-6 player. Shows a lot of creativity, speed and tenacity. Needs to work on his shot though. As others have mentioned, with Tynan, Frk and Tkachev on the team, it seems like they get a good chunk of PP time. That can be argued both ways though.

It's just a gut feeling, but I think he'll be a good NHL player with 50-60 pt upside... but also one that's out of the lineup more often than not.
 

Mats26

Vet Movement - What's the Maatta?
Sep 16, 2005
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Depending on what your expectation is of Turcotte, the only real concern is whether he can survive in the NHL. No doubt he can be a good top-6 player. Shows a lot of creativity, speed and tenacity. Needs to work on his shot though. As others have mentioned, with Tynan, Frk and Tkachev on the team, it seems like they get a good chunk of PP time. That can be argued both ways though.

It's just a gut feeling, but I think he'll be a good NHL player with 50-60 pt upside... but also one that's out of the lineup more often than not.

Agreed, nothing changed for me to think he can't make it to the NHL but when Aidan Dudas is out scoring your top prospect you need to see why that is. Watched many Reign games, he is a puck hound, closes gaps quickly, but needs alot of work on his shot and needs to shoot more when in position to score. More selfish play, drive the net, think offensive. I just hope they drive more offense out of him. 1 assist since November 13 is not good enough for a Reign team that is tops in the AHL in goals for.
 

Eagle Fang

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Oct 12, 2005
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Agreed, nothing changed for me to think he can't make it to the NHL but when Aidan Dudas is out scoring your top prospect you need to see why that is. Watched many Reign games, he is a puck hound, closes gaps quickly, but needs alot of work on his shot and needs to shoot more when in position to score. More selfish play, drive the net, think offensive. I just hope they drive more offense out of him. 1 assist since November 13 is not good enough for a Reign team that is tops in the AHL in goals for.

I was just debating whether to post this yesterday, but I'm glad you brought it up in a round-a-bout way. One big surprise in ONT for me has been Dudas. I dunno what it is about that kid, but he's easy to root for. He's like a Trevor Lewis / Blake Lizotte hybrid.

With Turcotte, and similar with Vilardi, I'm hoping it's that weird ONT effect where their play excels more at the NHL level than in the A. I think the only player who that hasn't applied to yet is Kupari. Clauge, Durzi, Strand and even Kaliyev (too an extent) look better in the NHL. Kaliyev definitely struggled early, but he looks better recently. He scored at a good pace in ONT last year but honestly I didn't really notice him much.
 
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Kurrilino

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The Kings compound bad decision by bad decision and because of it, they're crowding out their prospects in Ontario even. Did Wagner really need a 3 year deal? But they signed him to such a low cap figure! What a deal. Well, one season after signing him he's not even an NHL player and now he's in Ontario taking minutes away prospects because the Kings are paying him $1 million a year this and next. Martin Frk on another sweetheart deal. Got a Tkachev lotto ticket on the cheap and tossed it the bin after 4 games. Signed AA on a low cost deal then decided it was a great idea to double his salary and re-sign him when there are youth invested wingers in the pipeline ready to come up. Dumpster diving is back on the menu, folks. What this shows me is the Kings FO has no faith either in their development staff or their scouting staff. Why else are they signing all of these bridge players, not just for LA, but for Ontario too. At the minimum this ridiculous prospect pool better produce at least a couple of first liners and a 1st pairing defenseman. That's how to restore faith and shut up those of us who are dubious and terrified that they can't develop players.

I actually like all the bridging.
There is nothing at all, the youngsters could learn from fading glory core.
And this fading is rapidly increasing.

Keep the young far away from people like Brown or Kopitar and we will do great
 

cyclones22

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I actually like all the bridging.
There is nothing at all, the youngsters could learn from fading glory core.
And this fading is rapidly increasing.

Keep the young far away from people like Brown or Kopitar and we will do great

The big problem is the failed bridges are ending up in Ontario and slotting in the 1st and 2nd lines.
 
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Raccoon Jesus

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Yeah I think the better way to read that is this year, Dudas' production is a pleasant surprise rather than Turcotte a disappointment.

10 points in 21 games this year is a significant jump from 11 in 37 last year.
 

Sol

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Exactly. Some fans around here bitch a guy isn't being developed right, then in the same breath expect us to trade away vets so we can play 20-years-olds 2o+ minutes a night because ice time automatically = improvement. It's like some around here think video games mirror real life.

And there's the opposite side of the coin where some people want prospects to spend 25 to life in the AHL until they hit the NHL. Making players out of their prime consume most the ice time. Brilliant.
 

Herby

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I’m starting to get the notion that the majority of people on here that are “worried” about Turcotte do nothing more than stat watch.
Yes, he’s a balls to the walls type of guy but his skill set is pretty elite when it comes to playmaking.. his vision, creativity, touch, IQ and hockey sense have all been on display this season in Ontario. His scoring is outstanding but the most revealing aspect of his game is his defensive side. I expected a good two way player but his defense is looking like it could be elite as well.
People that stat watch have done nothing but worry about the kids upside, those that have watched the kid on TV have come away feeling good about his progress while those that have seen him live, have come away impressed and excited about what he brings.. at least I have though recent comments have backed this up.
This is just another one of those pessimistic threads us Kings fans seem to always come up with..
Bunch of negative Nancies lol

The first part is a weak take, the rest is valid and no one is questioning his overall ability, his motor, his compete level etc. The Kings have drafted a player who at worst is going to be a middle six character player. But it looks like the Kings rebuild is only going to produce two top-5 picks, so I think a lot of us were kind of hoping for more of an offensive impact from the #5 pick in the 2019 draft, especially with how much trouble the scouts and development team have had in either evaluating and/or developing offensive players. We are now three seasons into his time with the Kings and still the offensive production has yet to warrant the draft capital used to draft him, and pointing that out is not "stat watching" , it's just stating a fact. Again I don't really blame the player, he has been handled about as poorly as one can be handled (prematurely signed, switching positions, playing behind AAAA players, no NHL cup of coffee). But 18 goals in 79 games at the NCAA and AHL levels since being drafted isn't exactly grabbing the bull by the horns either.

I'm just having a difficult time filling in the boxes (to steal a DL thing) on where this Kings rebuild is going. Within 2 years of DL taking over we had so many of the key boxes filled. #1 C, #1 & #2D, #1G, 1st line winger.And yes I know DL inherited some of those pieces and Blake didn't. But DL seemed to have a better direction of what he was trying to do.

Exactly. Some fans around here bitch a guy isn't being developed right, then in the same breath expect us to trade away vets so we can play 20-years-olds 2o+ minutes a night because ice time automatically = improvement. It's like some around here think video games mirror real life.

Respect your opinion, but usually for players drafted that high the development does not take this long. Not since the NHL became a cap league and the importance of having players on ELC's.

The ideal development path for Turcotte would have been two years in college, followed by an end of the year run with the Kings last year and then the expectation that he be would have won a job out of camp this season. I can guarantee you if you asked anyone in Kings management that question on draft night they would have expected him to be up by now. Doesn't mean he is a bust or a lost cause, but it's fair to say the ascension has been slower than anticipated. I know people will blame Covid, but the Kings aren't the only team dealing with Covid.
 
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kingsfan

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5 years...which makes Vilardi a bust right? Top 5 picks don't need 5 years, they should be able to show some progression in 2-3 years if that. Sorry but Turcotte was selected at 5 and expectations are higher than most prospects because of that. He still has time to prove he can make it but he'll need to force his way on the team by his play not just by his draft selection pedigree. Like to see him on the club sometime this year to see how his game can translate to the NHL.

Pressure on him is also due to a strong draft class.
Was Moritz Seider the easy pick or the right pick? After Byram was off the board it should of been a much more broad selection. Sucks to see a future Norris trophy candidate picked right after. Let alone all the forwards in that draft class that have already excelled in the NHL or dominating the AHL.

As I said, "The earliest" you can judge a draft is five years. Some drafts take a very long time to determine, goalies are great examples but there's many skaters who take a long time to pan out to. Milan Hedjuk was exposed in an expansion draft by Colorado once. Some guys take longer than others. Turcotte's 20 and it's a few years minimum yet before we can say he's good or not. For Gabe he's a bit of an anomaly. Not many guys miss 18 months of development right after their draft year.

And who said he doesn't need to force his way on the team with something other than his draft pedigree? His draft pedigree hasn't got him a sniff yet so obviously no one is suggesting that.

I like Seider, a lot, but it was a gutsy pick for Detroit. Good on them... so far. Could he be a future Norris candidate? Certainly. Am I going to say so 32 games into his NHL career? Absolutely not. Don't forget for every gutsy pick like a Seider there's several gutsy picks that bomb. We should know, look at Thomas Hickey.
 
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Mats26

Vet Movement - What's the Maatta?
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As I said, "The earliest" you can judge a draft is five years. Some drafts take a very long time to determine, goalies are great examples but there's many skaters who take a long time to pan out to. Milan Hedjuk was exposed in an expansion draft by Colorado once. Some guys take longer than others. Turcotte's 20 and it's a few years minimum yet before we can say he's good or not. For Gabe he's a bit of an anomaly. Not many guys miss 18 months of development right after their draft year.

And who said he doesn't need to force his way on the team with something other than his draft pedigree? His draft pedigree hasn't got him a sniff yet so obviously no one is suggesting that.

I like Seider, a lot, but it was a gutsy pick for Detroit. Good on them... so far. Could he be a future Norris candidate? Certainly. Am I going to say so 32 games into his NHL career? Absolutely not. Don't forget for every gutsy pick like a Seider there's several gutsy picks that bomb. We should know, look at Thomas Hickey.

5 years to see how a draft went is fair but I am talking about our prospects and how long they need before making it on the big club. Our top prospects should be on the team in D+2 or D+3 years. If we still have an AHL\NHL tweener in D+5 then we have a problem. I can see a D man needing more time like Voynov(4 years in AHL) but it seems we have no problems developing D men, my issues are with the forwards.
 
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kingsfan

President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
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5 years to see how a draft went is fair but I am talking about our prospects and how long they need before making it on the big club. Our top prospects should be on the team in D+2 or D+3 years. If we still have an AHL\NHL tweener in D+5 then we have a problem. I can see a D man needing more time like Voynov(4 years in AHL) but it seems we have no problems developing D men, my issues are with the forwards.

Fair. I'd just rather wait until the guy gets to the NHL and see how he does. We see guys look sometimes terrible until they actually make the NHL and suddenly they aren't as bad as we thought. Durzi's recent cup of coffee being a good example of this, he did much better than anyone imagined. I assume Turcotte will be seeing about five games of action this season in LA at some point, it'll be a good eyeball test for all of us when he does.
 

Mats26

Vet Movement - What's the Maatta?
Sep 16, 2005
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Fair. I'd just rather wait until the guy gets to the NHL and see how he does. We see guys look sometimes terrible until they actually make the NHL and suddenly they aren't as bad as we thought. Durzi's recent cup of coffee being a good example of this, he did much better than anyone imagined. I assume Turcotte will be seeing about five games of action this season in LA at some point, it'll be a good eyeball test for all of us when he does.


No doubt the prospects will eventually get a look but this is not a "prospect development" year for the Kings. Their goal is to make the playoffs, much different if they did not sign those vets and say we are going the youth route. That's why they need to be ready when called upon, like Durzi, although we are all surprised on how he took advantage of his shot and potentially stole a spot. But we saw this with Strand and we know how that ended up right. No prospect will be handed a roster spot unless he earns it and keeps the team competitive for the playoff race. The COVID situation might open the door slightly for a few call ups\games, let's see if they take advantage of it.
 
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kingsfan

President of the Todd McLellan fan club by default
Mar 18, 2002
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Manitoba, Canada
No doubt the prospects will eventually get a look but this is not a "prospect development" year for the Kings. Their goal is to make the playoffs, much different if they did not sign those vets and say we are going the youth route. That's why they need to be ready when called upon, like Durzi, although we are all surprised on how he took advantage of his shot and potentially stole a spot. But we saw this with Strand and we know how that ended up right. No prospect will be handed a roster spot unless he earns it and keeps the team competitive for the playoff race. The COVID situation might open the door slightly for a few call ups\games, let's see if they take advantage of it.

I'm not sure if you're inferring I'm suggesting a prospect will get a shot without earning it but I'm not
 
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apocalypse

Dean Lombardi's Yes Man
Mar 20, 2017
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And there's the opposite side of the coin where some people want prospects to spend 25 to life in the AHL until they hit the NHL. Making players out of their prime consume most the ice time. Brilliant.
25 to life is hyperbole. I'm just saying let the kids learn the pro game in a low stress environment.
 

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