Turcotte- time to worry?

[LAKings88]

I’m worried about his ability to stay in the lineup. He is a competitor tho with skill.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I really hope those stats translate to a productive top 5 pick who can drive a top line in the NHL. I just don't see it right now, he needs a lot more growth\maturity to make it. And it will take some time to get there.

He's done it at every level and we have no reason to believe he can't at the next other than the physical maturity--as you say, that's a function of time. That's it.

Worry about his injuries/physical growth I can understand. Worries about his game--I simply cannot.

Edit: And I guess my thing is people are looking for things to be worried about since he's not in the NHL but let's be honest, that's an organizational f***up, not a Turcotte 'issue'. He should have had a cup of coffee last year. Just more mismanagement.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Muzz needs to carve some time out from volleyball practice and pull Turc aside to tell the kid it’s okay to focus on the silk and lay off the sandpaper until he gains 10 lbs of muscle.

 

[tomd]

Billy Beane Moneyball quote:

"If he's a good hitter why doesn't he hit good?"

 

[AbsentMojo]

[...Doughty had to open his big mouth at the end of last season though, and so instead of having a disgruntled Doughty stuck in LA, the organization actually spent money.[/QUOTE]
If that influenced Blake he is a buffoon. One of the reasons the cups were won, is there was an organizational alignment that the rebuild will take time and the fools gold shortcuts that esp Toronto has been known for, werent taken. Im pretty sure Luc and Blake do not have the brains and the balls to keep an actual rebuild in process as evidenced by the off season as you mentioned. And the last point to make is that DD should be moved if possible. He doesnt have the mental maturity to be a mentor.. and this rebuild is probably happing too late to make him relevant when things come to fruition.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Cole Caufield was supposed to be rookie of the year and has only 1 goal, 6 points in 23 games -- should we be worried?

Alex Lafreniere was supposed to be the next Crosby and has only 8 points in 30 games. Should we be worried?

Turcotte hasn't played a single minute in the NHL, but yeah, we need to be very worried because that's what we do...

 

[DoktorJeep]

[...Doughty had to open his big mouth at the end of last season though, and so instead of having a disgruntled Doughty stuck in LA, the organization actually spent money.


If that influenced Blake he is a buffoon. One of the reasons the cups were won, is there was an organizational alignment that the rebuild will take time and the fools gold shortcuts that esp Toronto has been known for, werent taken. Im pretty sure Luc and Blake do not have the brains and the balls to keep an actual rebuild in process as evidenced by the off season as you mentioned. And the last point to make is that DD should be moved if possible. He doesnt have the mental maturity to be a mentor.. and this rebuild is probably happing too late to make him relevant when things come to fruition.

It absolutely influenced management. The company line parroted by the team’s media mouthpieces was that Drew and Kopi were articulating the plan all along and weren’t asking for anything special.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Is he even 20 yet? If he was Sam steels age sure you worry but look at a guy like Lundy… really started to find his footing 22… i expect a similar curve for turcotte, but higher ceiling

 

[cyclones22]

No I'm not worried in the player himself. Turcotte has the skill to play in the NHL. I'm worried about how this organization deals with youth. As you can see it's trickled down into the Reign as well. This favoritism for older players. What is the point of having all of these AHL lifers on the team playing the most minutes on the first line power play? Was there some sort of mandate from ownership that they make the AHL playoffs as well?

What kills me more than anything is that they treat young defenseman completely different than forwards. Yes I understand that there are twice as many forwards in a lineup then there are defenseman but it is ridiculous how polar opposite the handling is.

What this all tells me is that this organization has a lack self-awareness. They don't understand where they are as an organization. They think they are closer than they are. They think they are on the cusp a being a playoff team and because of this they are leaning on vets.

 

[tomd]

Tha'ts the thing...it's smoke and mirrors

here's the Reign's NON-PP production for forwards:

Frk: 8g, 8a, 16p in 22 games. (.72 PPG)
Tynan: 4g, 11a, 15 pints in 16 games (.94)
Tkachev; 3g, 7a, 10p in 14 games (.714)
JAD: 1g, 5a, 6p in 18 games (.33)
Madden: 7g, 2a, 9p in 21 games (and 5-6 of those goals are just in the last few games) (.43)
Fagemo: 5g, 2a, 7p in 21 games (.33)
Dudas: 5g, 5a, 10p in 22 games (no pp points) (.45)
Burke: 2g, 5a, 7p in 16 games (.435)
Turcotte: 3g, 6a, 9p in 18 games (.5)

So, in a tougher role, and after being banged up with injuries, Turcotte is only getting outscored at even strength by AHL/KHL lifers/MVPs in their late 20s.

Just give him an actual role on the PP and it'll make people 'feel better' about his production.

Curious if the AHL tracks power play time per game for each player. Didn't see it on the AHL website. Would be interesting to know how much PP time guys like Turcotte are getting compared to guys like Frk and Tynan. Every team has two PP units so I'm guessing Turcotte is on one of them.

 

[cyclones22]

I didn't subscribe to AHL TV this season but I think @Raccoon Jesus did. I'm guessing that he knows that Turcotte is not on the first power-play unit. Second power-play unit is typically mop-up duty anyway. You probably get the last 30 seconds of a power-play and you only get on the ice because the puck has been cleared down the ice. So now you have a limited amount of time to break into the zone and then setup. Hell we see it all the time with the Kings. Second power-play unit guess on the ice and there's not enough time to do anything.

 

[Mats26]

Is he even 20 yet? If he was Sam steels age sure you worry but look at a guy like Lundy… really started to find his footing 22… i expect a similar curve for turcotte, but higher ceiling

Turc? He is 21 in 2 months. It's time he at least makes the org notice him and potentially force a trade to open a spot. Can't have anymore excuses, he is playing with Madden and Vilardi, he should start putting up better numbers. He went through a hot streak last year, needs to do that again and sustain it or he will just fall in a group of tweeners for scarce roster spots next year. And not just Alex, Fagemo is in that boat as well.

 

[kingsfan]

I'm not worried at all. He'll be an NHLer and a solid one. I think the expectations are higher given he's a 5th overall pick but he's going to be a solid 2nd liner like Brayden Schenn. I'm fine with that.

 

[apocalypse]

He plays a physical game. That's common with players that play like that. He should be up in LA, but log jam. I have no doubts that he'll be a great player. Heart and soul, mike richards lite.

 

[funky]

Tha'ts the thing...it's smoke and mirrors

here's the Reign's NON-PP production for forwards:

Frk: 8g, 8a, 16p in 22 games. (.72 PPG)
Tynan: 4g, 11a, 15 pints in 16 games (.94)
Tkachev; 3g, 7a, 10p in 14 games (.714)
JAD: 1g, 5a, 6p in 18 games (.33)
Madden: 7g, 2a, 9p in 21 games (and 5-6 of those goals are just in the last few games) (.43)
Fagemo: 5g, 2a, 7p in 21 games (.33)
Dudas: 5g, 5a, 10p in 22 games (no pp points) (.45)
Burke: 2g, 5a, 7p in 16 games (.435)
Turcotte: 3g, 6a, 9p in 18 games (.5)

So, in a tougher role, and after being banged up with injuries, Turcotte is only getting outscored at even strength by AHL/KHL lifers/MVPs in their late 20s.

Just give him an actual role on the PP and it'll make people 'feel better' about his production.

i am glad you took the time to look into that and break it down. That does make me feel better about Turcotte.

I also did not realize how many vets we have down there that take a lot of prime minutes.

Blake really needs to make a move to get rid of some of the clutter and repeatable type players at both levels.

 

[Fishhead]

I think Turcotte is going to be a really good NHL'er, I'm fine with that. Keep in mind that 2019 wasn't a very good draft, a lot of the top picks would have been top10'ish guys in other drafts. Hughes, Kakko, and Dach really haven't impressed. Right now, I'd say Zegras and Seider look to be the best so far. Byram has been pretty solid in limited time, but he's also on a stacked team.

 

[apocalypse]

I think a second line of kupari - Turcotte - kempe would absolutely tear it up. I think Turcotte is near ready for the NHL.

Arvy - Kopitar - Kaliyev
Kupari - Turcotte - Kempe
Iafallo - Byfield - AA
Lemieux - Lizzotte - Grundstrom/Brown

This is what our lineup should look like next year. I think you give Byfield more time. Turcotte's ready. I think any line with him as center would do well. Yes I said center. Do it.

 

[Lt Dan]

If you're basing this on raw production, that's your problem. Really really have to catch an Ontario game, dude is everywhere.

In addition, you'll notice everyone producing more than him has the gap nearly completely made up by powerplay points--because this organization is so good at player development the PP main unit doesn't include him. So I guess from an external development standpoint, yeah, maybe worry about that. Just like the NHL club is prioritizing vets...so goes the AHL club.

Keep in mind this is a guy playing a HARD two-way game vs. men right now and getting better all the time, he's just so reckless he gets banged up and until he has his full man strength we'll have to get used to that. Kind of dude who will excel at the NHL level because he's an elite three-zones player with excellent puck support and he doesn't really get that kind of 'flow' in the AHL. I can't even count how many crazy passes the guy made over the last few games that linemates couldn't finish.

The question is, is he JD Drew?

 

[RocketKing]

Was totally optimistic he was going to be a Bergeron type two way center and followed him through NCAA and his WJC performance which was encouraging but now development seemingly stalled. Really hope this kid can make the NHL and be a contributor but week by week those hopes diminishing and he is not really not even standing out at the AHL level. Wondering if he is nursing some injuries given his history but Right now he is looking more and more like a bust sad to say. Im I being pessimistic here? I am totally open to hearing something optimistic about his development. Maybe something Im missing or not seeing?

2019 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

Way past time. My big problem is that he’s hurt almost every season since he was picked and that has stunted his development. Add that he really a small guy and I’ve really lowered my expectations. Bad pick Rob, 5th pick in that draft and he really f***ed up hard. I don’t thinking Alex is a bad player it’s just that there were better options at that pick and he already has a history of injury issues being a small guy.

 

[ru4reals]

Tha'ts the thing...it's smoke and mirrors

here's the Reign's NON-PP production for forwards:

Frk: 8g, 8a, 16p in 22 games. (.72 PPG)
Tynan: 4g, 11a, 15 pints in 16 games (.94)
Tkachev; 3g, 7a, 10p in 14 games (.714)
JAD: 1g, 5a, 6p in 18 games (.33)
Madden: 7g, 2a, 9p in 21 games (and 5-6 of those goals are just in the last few games) (.43)
Fagemo: 5g, 2a, 7p in 21 games (.33)
Dudas: 5g, 5a, 10p in 22 games (no pp points) (.45)
Burke: 2g, 5a, 7p in 16 games (.435)
Turcotte: 3g, 6a, 9p in 18 games (.5)

So, in a tougher role, and after being banged up with injuries, Turcotte is only getting outscored at even strength by AHL/KHL lifers/MVPs in their late 20s.

Just give him an actual role on the PP and it'll make people 'feel better' about his production.

Watching the Reign and I get that you want to win but cannot believe they are not using Turcotte and Byfield on the top pp unit. The AHL is exactly where both these kids should be honing their skills but, AHL lifers like tynan and company are getting top pp minutes. Just baffles my mind. Most high end prospects are getting top minutes already with their respected AHL teams. Just amazing how lame this organization is at bringing along the prospects.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The question is, is he JD Drew?

No, JD Drew was actually called up before people started complaining about him.

And no one will question Turcotte's heart, just Blake's.

 

[Herby]

He's done it at every level and we have no reason to believe he can't at the next other than the physical maturity--as you say, that's a function of time. That's it.

Worry about his injuries/physical growth I can understand. Worries about his game--I simply cannot.

Edit: And I guess my thing is people are looking for things to be worried about since he's not in the NHL but let's be honest, that's an organizational f***up, not a Turcotte 'issue'. He should have had a cup of coffee last year. Just more mismanagement.

He should have had a cup of coffee in the NHL last year after a dominating sophomore season in the NCAA. And I bet he may have even made the team out of camp this season.

But Blakey wanted to get him into the organization so his boys Muzz, OD, Stolly, Army, Emerson (does Emerson have an uncreative nickname too?) could take a hold of his development, because you know those guys have done such a great job developing before that.

As for right now, the Kings are probably still holding out hope that Turcotte can be a top-six offensive contributor and probably want more offensive production before calling him up. Right now they would be calling him up for a bottom six-role, which is fine for someone like JAD but the Kings probably don't want a former top-5 pick settling into a more complimentary role. I don't think it's an awful idea for Blake to want Byfield and Turcotte to show more production at the AHL level, just wish Rob had shown that kind of patience before prematurely bringing him to pro hockey before he was ready.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

He should have had a cup of coffee in the NHL last year after a dominating sophomore season in the NCAA. And I bet he may have even made the team out of camp this season.

But Blakey wanted to get him into the organization so his boys Muzz, OD, Stolly, Army, Emerson (does Emerson have an uncreative nickname too?) could take a hold of his development, because you know those guys have done such a great job developing before that.

As for right now, the Kings are probably still holding out hope that Turcotte can be a top-six offensive contributor and probably want more offensive production before calling him up. Right now they would be calling him up for a bottom six-role, which is fine for someone like JAD but the Kings probably don't want a former top-5 pick settling into a more complimentary role. I don't think it's an awful idea for Blake to want Byfield and Turcotte to show more production at the AHL level, just wish Rob had shown that kind of patience before prematurely bringing him to pro hockey before he was ready.

Emerson is "Nelly," duh!

And it's still silly to hold him down while calling up Tynan, just as it's silly to want 'more production' but keep him off PP1. As pointed out he's outscoring everyone at even strength but the late-20s veterans that have played in the NHL. I don't generally otherwise disagree with the idea that they want to see more production before putting him into an NHL production role, at face value it's a nice sentiment, but that's not what's happening, and that's not happening to ANY callup.

 

[King'sPawn]

I'm not going to condemn the Kings for signing Turcotte "a year too early." Wisconsin was laughably mediocre his freshman season, and it was clear the program wanted to leverage the game through the golden cow Cole Caufield. Turcotte's best interests were ancillary to CC, in my opinion.

However, I don't know what the plan is for Turcotte. Is it to make him a bottom-6 center? Because, okay... he has Byfield ahead of him in the pipeline, us Kopitar+Danault for the next few years. If they want him to be a left wing, why is he playing at center predominantly in the AHL? They're literally going through this with Vilardi.

So when he gets his NHL stint, he'll either be a victim of numbers down the middle or be forced to adjust his game as a rookie at the highest level.

 

[kingsfan]

i am glad you took the time to look into that and break it down. That does make me feel better about Turcotte.

I also did not realize how many vets we have down there that take a lot of prime minutes.

Blake really needs to make a move to get rid of some of the clutter and repeatable type players at both levels.

The vets are by design. You have to have competition and you have to have guys who set examples of being a pro to the younger guys. It makes them earn it. If they wanted these kids to just play 20+ minutes a night they either wouldn't sign the Tynan's or they'd simple scratch them.