Value of: Trouba

[snowkiddin]

P Myers, Frost, and 11th overall is much more dollars on the penny than pennies on the dollar. That's an extreme package.

Wasn’t referencing that particular package, sorry I know it looked that way. My bad. I just meant in general.

 

[DRW204]

P Myers, Frost, and 11th overall is much more dollars on the penny than pennies on the dollar. That's an extreme package.

i dont think that's happening from Philly. But I think a package around 11th+P. Myers+2020 2nd is a feasible ask. The 2020 pick will likely be later in the 2nd round with the Trouba addition & full-season of Carter Hart. I don't think that's far off the value from what Hamilton got (from BOS->CGY, 15th/45th/52nd at the loaded 2015 draft) or the Pacioretty deal - and I believe Trouba is a higher valued player than both at the time of the trade as he's been playing as the top pair RD for 3 years now and put up some of the best 5v5 scoring rates in the league from Dmen.

Philly rolls with a D group of

Provorov (22 years old)-Trouba (25)
Sanheim (23)-Gudas (29)
Gostisbehere (26)-X

That's a strong balance of skillsets, youth and NHL experience.

 

[Jimmyjets]

I will be tolerant here....you are not going to get close to that type of return for Trouba. And I will leave it at that.

I appreciate your restraint and can tell some people feel personally attacked and offended by the offer but I'm just trying to get a little negotiating going here to see what might be possible. 1st + Gudas was offered up by a Flyers fan, but I want Myers instead of Gudas even though he's unproven. If you would do 1st + Gudas you'd potentially do 1st + Myers. (Would you?)

Jets also need a 2C of the future so I added in Frost as you already have Couts and Patrick so Frost is likely a 3C for you (unless you don't believe in Patrick and then I'd take him instead). I added Perreault to help out as a top 9 winger, but I expected a counter offer. For example, do you know who the Jets drafted 3 picks before Frost? Vesalainen, who like Frost, has only improved his value since he's been drafted. I thought that the Flyers needed a RW replacement for Voracek so I expected a "That's too much, you'd need to add in Vesalainen...." or whatever the counter would be.

If you would never trade Myers or Frost or the 1st than that's fine. Just say that and why and if there's agreement then everyone moves on to different pieces or a determines there's no deal here. If the Jets need to add then that's fine too. Just say what you'd want. It's not personal. It's pretend and for fun.

 

[Starat327]

i dont think that's happening from Philly. But I think a package around 11th+P. Myers+2020 2nd is a feasible ask. The 2020 pick will likely be later in the 2nd round with the Trouba addition & full-season of Carter Hart. I don't think that's far off the value from what Hamilton got (from BOS->CGY, 15th/45th/52nd at the loaded 2015 draft) or the Pacioretty deal - and I believe Trouba is a higher valued player than both at the time of the trade as he's been playing as the top pair RD for 3 years now and put up some of the best 5v5 scoring rates in the league from Dmen.

Philly rolls with a D group of

Provorov (22 years old)-Trouba (25)
Sanheim (23)-Gudas (29)
Gostisbehere (26)-X

That's a strong balance of skillsets, youth and NHL experience.

Im probably in the minority of flyers fans who would consider Myers in a deal for Trouba, but if any of the high end prospects are moving, its not with the 11th as well. If Myers is in the proposal, its a 2019 2nd and a 2020 1st, and likely with some sort of condition. While Trouba is a higher value player, the 11th > 15, and Myers is > the 45th. I'm not comfortable offering 2 premium assets for Trouba. I like Trouba as a player, and i think he greatly improves our D core, but there are limits.

 

[DRW204]

Im probably in the minority of flyers fans who would consider Myers in a deal for Trouba, but if any of the high end prospects are moving, its not with the 11th as well. If Myers is in the proposal, its a 2019 2nd and a 2020 1st, and likely with some sort of condition. While Trouba is a higher value player, the 11th > 15, and Myers is > the 45th. I'm not comfortable offering 2 premium assets for Trouba. I like Trouba as a player, and i think he greatly improves our D core, but there are limits.

and Trouba is a better player than Hamilton was at the time. Not sure how you get Myers is > 45th, id peg his value around there. not so much interested in the 2020 1st since itll likely be late with all your additions/promotions to the roster

 

[Paul4587]

What’s he wanting salary wise on his next deal?

If he was willing to come to Anaheim and wasn’t asking for an extortionate amount of money I would be willing to trade Fowler and the Sharks first for him. Not sure if that’s enough for Jets fans?

 

[DRW204]

What’s he wanting salary wise on his next deal?

If he was willing to come to Anaheim and wasn’t asking for an extortionate amount of money I would be willing to trade Fowler and the Sharks first for him. Not sure if that’s enough for Jets fans?

no clue, but probably around 7M.

 

[Starat327]

and Trouba is a better player than Hamilton was at the time. Not sure how you get Myers is > 45th, id peg his value around there. not so much interested in the 2020 1st since itll likely be late with all your additions/promotions to the roster

And all of that is perfectly ok(though i dont think that Trouba's value - with all factors considered - is that much higher than Hamilton's when he was originally traded. Ultimately, its not important though) but i have less than 0 interest in a deal that sees both Myers and the 11th go in the same deal. If there's no deal workable without both, im content to keep both.

Having Myers ranked a a mid 2nd round pick is fairly laughable, though.

 

[DRW204]

And all of that is perfectly ok(though i dont think that Trouba's value - with all factors considered - is that much higher than Hamilton's when he was originally traded. Ultimately, its not important though) but i have less than 0 interest in a deal that sees both Myers and the 11th go in the same deal. If there's no deal workable without both, im content to keep both.

Having Myers ranked a a mid 2nd round pick is fairly laughable, though.

how is it laughable? which team is spending a 1st-early 2nd(+) on him? Adam Fox went for the 37th, is Myers a higher regarded prospect than Fox?

 

[Tripod]

I appreciate your restraint and can tell some people feel personally attacked and offended by the offer but I'm just trying to get a little negotiating going here to see what might be possible. 1st + Gudas was offered up by a Flyers fan, but I want Myers instead of Gudas even though he's unproven. If you would do 1st + Gudas you'd potentially do 1st + Myers. (Would you?)

Jets also need a 2C of the future so I added in Frost as you already have Couts and Patrick so Frost is likely a 3C for you (unless you don't believe in Patrick and then I'd take him instead). I added Perreault to help out as a top 9 winger, but I expected a counter offer. For example, do you know who the Jets drafted 3 picks before Frost? Vesalainen, who like Frost, has only improved his value since he's been drafted. I thought that the Flyers needed a RW replacement for Voracek so I expected a "That's too much, you'd need to add in Vesalainen...." or whatever the counter would be.

If you would never trade Myers or Frost or the 1st than that's fine. Just say that and why and if there's agreement then everyone moves on to different pieces or a determines there's no deal here. If the Jets need to add then that's fine too. Just say what you'd want. It's not personal. It's pretend and for fun.

I think the issue is that the #11 pick, is being treated as a #20-31 pick. It's been called "trash" as part of an offer.

I have said I can see the Jets getting one A asset. You asked for 3. But let's dig deeper on the Flyers end. Frost and Patrick is needed because after these 2, we only have Laughton at C who should be our #4. So moving either C is a no. Gudas makes sense in that Trouba essentially replaces his roster spot. But he is not an A asset so adding #11 makes sense. For Philly, Myers doesn't make sense in that he is our only young RHD with upside. So they would likely rather part with the pick. But if they did part with Myers, he is the A asset and in no way do we add #11 to him. We would add 2nd tier asset like 2nd(#41) or someone more NHL ready. But it won't be Frost or Farabee. Fletcher seems to group Ratcliffe into that top tier group, personally, I don't.

And as I said earlier, I personally like Trouba, but I do worry that his contract demands will have a trickle down effect on our younger D. Getting Provy signed for 6-6.5 million becomes impossible if you give Trouba 7-8. And Sanheim just outproduced both of them at ES. Getting him signed long term on a great deal becomes harder too.

 

[Starat327]

how is it laughable? which team is spending a 1st-early 2nd(+) on him? Adam Fox went for the 37th, is Myers a higher regarded prospect than Fox?

Fox also held a lot of leverage there. Not all trades are done in vacuums. I didnt watch much of Fox, so i dont know nearly enough about him to judge the two, but given what i do know about Myers, I'd find it incredibly unlikely I'd move Myers for him, if that answers your question.

 

[Tripod]

how is it laughable? which team is spending a 1st-early 2nd(+) on him? Adam Fox went for the 37th, is Myers a higher regarded prospect than Fox?

Fox had the threat of going back to college and Carolina getting nothing for him.

It's quite unanimous that the Flyers fans value Myers over the #11 overall pick...right where someone like Soderstrom would go. So when you say his value is at #45 or worse, it's laughable.

 

[DRW204]

Fox also held a lot of leverage there. Not all trades are done in vacuums. I didnt watch much of Fox, so i dont know nearly enough about him to judge the two, but given what i do know about Myers, I'd find it incredibly unlikely I'd move Myers for him, if that answers your question.

Fox had leverage because he was going to bolt to NYR, yet NYR still traded a high 2nd for him. So is your answer Myers is worth more than Fox? Give me a team that's spending a 1st or early 2nd on Myers since it's laughable to you that he's not worth a mid 2nd- the difference between an early-mid 2nd is really negligible

 

[DRW204]

Fox had the threat of going back to college and Carolina getting nothing for him.

It's quite unanimous that the Flyers fans value Myers over the #11 overall pick...right where someone like Soderstrom would go. So when you say his value is at #45 or worse, it's laughable.

yea he had the threat, and Carolina still made out great getting a high 2nd even though everyone knew he was bolting out of Carolina.

but if there's no deal to be had that's fine. let's not make this as contentious as typical trade threads go, lol.

 

[Starat327]

Fox had leverage because he was going to bolt to NYR, yet NYR still traded a high 2nd for him. So is your answer Myers is worth more than Fox? Give me a team that's spending a 1st or early 2nd on Myers since it's laughable to you that he's not worth a mid 2nd- the difference between an early-mid 2nd is really negligible

Fox had leverage. Carolina didnt. Rangers paid because they wanted him now, and Carolina took below market value because Fox told them he wasnt going to sign.

When Myers comes back and tells the Flyers next off season that he isnt going to sign, we can compare values. Until then, I wont even remotely pretend to be ignorant enough to tell you which teams value Myers and where they value him. Mostly because the Flyers arent even remotely interested in trading him?

 

[Captain Mountain]

i dont think that's happening from Philly. But I think a package around 11th+P. Myers+2020 2nd is a feasible ask. The 2020 pick will likely be later in the 2nd round with the Trouba addition & full-season of Carter Hart. I don't think that's far off the value from what Hamilton got (from BOS->CGY, 15th/45th/52nd at the loaded 2015 draft) or the Pacioretty deal - and I believe Trouba is a higher valued player than both at the time of the trade as he's been playing as the top pair RD for 3 years now and put up some of the best 5v5 scoring rates in the league from Dmen.

Philly rolls with a D group of

Provorov (22 years old)-Trouba (25)
Sanheim (23)-Gudas (29)
Gostisbehere (26)-X

That's a strong balance of skillsets, youth and NHL experience.

That would also be an incredibly expensive D group given Provorov, Trouba and Sanheim are all RFAs right now and young D-men aren't signing cheaply right now.

Philly has cap space and can spend to the cap, but they also have to re-up Konecny and fill out their roster (the only goalies they have under contract going into next season that have played meaningful NHL/AHL minutes lat year are Hart and Lyon.

Also, Myers is probably worth more than a 2nd round pick at the moment. And Tatar was viewed by most as cap dump, I'm not sure he was valued as a 2nd rounder.

 

[DRW204]

Fox had leverage. Carolina didnt. Rangers paid because they wanted him now, and Carolina took below market value because Fox told them he wasnt going to sign.

When Myers comes back and tells the Flyers next off season that he isnt going to sign, we can compare values. Until then, I wont even remotely pretend to be ignorant enough to tell you which teams value Myers and where they value him. Mostly because the Flyers arent even remotely interested in trading him?

Fox had leverage but it didn't dampen his trade value. a high 2nd is a good return on him how's that below market value? If you don't want to deal Myers that's fine, but to say he is not worth X, or Y opinion is laughable is disingenuous. You said it yourself you can't even put trade value on him.

 

[Starat327]

Fox had leverage but it didn't dampen his trade value. a high 2nd is a good return on him how's that below market value? If you don't want to deal Myers that's fine, but to say he is not worth X, or Y opinion is laughable is disingenuous. You said it yourself you can't even put trade value on him.

I dont remotely consider trading Myers until someone starts approaching #15 overall - does that help? As @Tripod said, most of us on our board would deal the 11th before dealing Myers.

 

[Starat327]

That would also be an incredibly expensive D group given Provorov, Trouba and Sanheim are all RFAs right now and young D-men aren't signing cheaply right now.

Philly has cap space and can spend to the cap, but they also have to re-up Konecny and fill out their roster (the only goalies they have under contract going into next season that have played meaningful NHL/AHL minutes lat year are Hart and Lyon.

Also, Myers is probably worth more than a 2nd round pick at the moment. And Tatar was viewed by most as cap dump, I'm not sure he was valued as a 2nd rounder.

Provorov shouldnt come above 7 or so after his regressive year, and the hope is that Sanheim can get locked in at a reasonable rate - anything under 6 would honestly be a steal. That would give us our top 3 dmen locked in at 18Mil (inclusive of Ghost), and theyd all be locked in with term. Adding Trouba to that list rounds out to 25 Mil let's call it. Thats a pretty inexpensive and good top 4 that still has a lot of room to grow, as well.

the problem would be more about what we have to pay Seattle to not take one of them.

 

[Dooble08]

Fox had leverage because he was going to bolt to NYR, yet NYR still traded a high 2nd for him. So is your answer Myers is worth more than Fox? Give me a team that's spending a 1st or early 2nd on Myers since it's laughable to you that he's not worth a mid 2nd- the difference between an early-mid 2nd is really negligible

The question is.....am I going to find a player of equal or better value than Myers in the early to mid 2nd round. The answer is probably not. So yes, all Flyers fans should value him more than a high-mid 2nd round pick. If he wasn't signed as a free agent by the Flyers, most scout had him as a 1st round pick in 2016. He is not at all comparable to Fox in terms of the recent trade.

 

[DRW204]

That would also be an incredibly expensive D group given Provorov, Trouba and Sanheim are all RFAs right now and young D-men aren't signing cheaply right now.

Philly has cap space and can spend to the cap, but they also have to re-up Konecny and fill out their roster (the only goalies they have under contract going into next season that have played meaningful NHL/AHL minutes lat year are Hart and Lyon.

Also, Myers is probably worth more than a 2nd round pick at the moment. And Tatar was viewed by most as cap dump, I'm not sure he was valued as a 2nd rounder.

it might be expensive (not sure how expensive compared to league average tbh), but it'll be really good and continue to get better. Philly has done quite a good job (i believe Hextall notably?) managing the cap. 33+M in space this year and some more will open up with AMac and Schlemko (7.1M combined) off the books next year. I don't think it's impossible to have Trouba/Provorov/Sanheim/Konecny signed and still have some quite a bit of space left over.

 

[DRW204]

The question is.....am I going to find a player of equal or better value than Myers in the early to mid 2nd round. The answer is probably not. So yes, all Flyers fans should value him more than a high-mid 2nd round pick. If he wasn't signed as a free agent by the Flyers, most scout had him as a 1st round pick in 2016. He is not at all comparable to Fox in terms of the recent trade.

it's possible. Philly has been done well in the draft (and evidently UDFA) in recent years. Please show where most scouts had him as a 1st round pick in 2016 ive never seen this. edit: just looking it up - fair enough there was some banter about him from a late 1st-2nd round pick wouldn't say most scouts but it's a fair comment

 

[Huffer]

Im probably in the minority of flyers fans who would consider Myers in a deal for Trouba, but if any of the high end prospects are moving, its not with the 11th as well. If Myers is in the proposal, its a 2019 2nd and a 2020 1st, and likely with some sort of condition. While Trouba is a higher value player, the 11th > 15, and Myers is > the 45th. I'm not comfortable offering 2 premium assets for Trouba. I like Trouba as a player, and i think he greatly improves our D core, but there are limits.

Myers, 2019 2nd and 2020 1st?

I know other Jets fans might say no because they want more "now" pieces (and that's fine), but I think something could be worked around that.

 

[DRW204]

Myers, 2019 2nd and 2020 1st?

I know other Jets fans might say no because they want more "now" pieces (and that's fine), but I think something could be worked around that.

the 2020 1st will be likely late.... they'll be adding Trouba, full-season of Hart and JVR maybe Frost? Id peddle elsewhere probably.

 

[dag54]

Myers, 2019 2nd and 2020 1st?

I know other Jets fans might say no because they want more "now" pieces (and that's fine), but I think something could be worked around that.

The Flyers aren't trading Myers. Just stop.