Value of: Trouba

[Starat327]

it's possible. Philly has been done well in the draft (and evidently UDFA) in recent years. Please show where most scouts had him as a 1st round pick in 2016 ive never seen this. edit: just looking it up - fair enough there was some banter about him from a late 1st-2nd round pick wouldn't say most scouts but it's a fair comment

It's Craig Button, but:

Phil Myers probably would have been a first-round pick in next month's NHL draft if the Flyers didn't have the foresight to sign the 6-foot-5, 208-pound free agent during last year's training camp.
Since then, the junior-level defenseman has blossomed faster than anyone could have expected, strengthening the Flyers' already-deep group of up-and-coming blue liners.
"There's no question" he would have been a first-round selection if he was in this year's draft, said Craig Button, the highly respected draft guru for TSN in Canada. "What a steal by the Flyers."

Edit: didnt see your edit.

 

[Snowman]

the 2020 1st will be likely late.... they'll be adding Trouba, full-season of Hart and JVR maybe Frost? Id peddle elsewhere probably.

I agree. I would keep that offer in the chute as a last resort, as it isn't terrible, but would wait until 11:59:59 for a better offer before pulling the trigger.

 

[Huffer]

the 2020 1st will be likely late.... they'll be adding Trouba, full-season of Hart and JVR maybe Frost? Id peddle elsewhere probably.

Possibly, never know though.

 

[Huffer]

The Flyers aren't trading Myers. Just stop.

Lol, quite possible they won't, who knows. But I'm quoting Starat327, so maybe tell him to stop?

 

[Starat327]

Lol, quite possible they won't, who knows. But I'm quoting Starat327, so maybe tell him to stop?

I also said I was in the minority who would even consider it. As in, my feeling isnt necessarily representative of the majority, and it certainly isnt as though im really interested in moving him.

 

[dag54]

Lol, quite possible they won't, who knows. But I'm quoting Starat327, so maybe tell him to stop?

Their not trading Myers. I'd give up the 11th overall pick, Gudas and Rubtsov.

 

[DRW204]

Possibly, never know though.

true, there'll likely be protection on it... i think FLA fans have given better value though.

 

[Hunter368]

Trouba situation will likely be resolved in less then 4 weeks now.......pace yourselves. It’s amusing having the #2 piece on the TSN trade list. Just waiting for the playoffs to finish before the storm of action happens, contracts, trades, draft and FA. Fun times!

 

[DRW204]

Their not trading Myers. I'd give up the 11th overall pick, Gudas and Rubtsov.

what's the deal with Rubtsov? what is he projecting to? I actually dont mind a deal around 11th+Gudas+

 

[Whileee]

The Flyers aren't trading Myers. Just stop.

Becoming a RD the caliber of Trouba is the ultimate dream scenario for Myers. Since Trouba is already there, it's kinda weird to suggest that Myers wouldn't be available in a trade for Trouba.

I think a lot of people forget that since being drafted #8 overall, Trouba has been a top-end prospect (top D at the WJHC and stud as an NCAA freshman), and then stepped directly into the NHL and has consistently been a top all-around RD with excellent offensive and defensive metrics. He is also big and tough as nails. I think a lot of fans don't fully appreciate how valuable a commodity Trouba is in the NHL market.

 

[Huffer]

I also said I was in the minority who would even consider it. As in, my feeling isnt necessarily representative of the majority, and it certainly isnt as though im really interested in moving him.

No worries!

Their not trading Myers. I'd give up the 11th overall pick, Gudas and Rubtsov.

Good to know.

 

[Jimmyjets]

I think the issue is that the #11 pick, is being treated as a #20-31 pick. It's been called "trash" as part of an offer.

I have said I can see the Jets getting one A asset. You asked for 3. But let's dig deeper on the Flyers end. Frost and Patrick is needed because after these 2, we only have Laughton at C who should be our #4. So moving either C is a no. Gudas makes sense in that Trouba essentially replaces his roster spot. But he is not an A asset so adding #11 makes sense. For Philly, Myers doesn't make sense in that he is our only young RHD with upside. So they would likely rather part with the pick. But if they did part with Myers, he is the A asset and in no way do we add #11 to him. We would add 2nd tier asset like 2nd(#41) or someone more NHL ready. But it won't be Frost or Farabee. Fletcher seems to group Ratcliffe into that top tier group, personally, I don't.

And as I said earlier, I personally like Trouba, but I do worry that his contract demands will have a trickle down effect on our younger D. Getting Provy signed for 6-6.5 million becomes impossible if you give Trouba 7-8. And Sanheim just outproduced both of them at ES. Getting him signed long term on a great deal becomes harder too.

I really appreciate the response. Thanks!

So for you 1st + Gudas or maybe Myers + 2nd but you'd rather keep Myers to play on your second pair ahead of Ghost. Ideally you'd want to roll out:

Provy - Trouba
Sanheim - Myers
Ghost - MacDonald/Hagg
Morin

You wouldn't move Frost/Patrick because one of them needs to play 3C. What if we traded you a 3C as part of the deal (Lowry/Copp)? Would you consider moving one of them then?

I'm really just hoping to get to a place where the Jets do one trade to check as many boxes as possible.

Trouba (extended) + Copp/Lowry + Vesalainen for 1st + Myers + Frost.

Flyers end up with:

G Couts Voracek
JVR Patrick Konecny
Farabee Copp/Lowry Vesalainen (probably pretty sheltered with 2 rookies but both Copp and Lowry are really strong defensively)
Lindbloom Laughton Hartman

Provy Trouba
Sanheim Gudas
Ghost Hagg
Morin

MacDonald in minors. Once Gudas walks you'd flip Sanheim back to the right side and slide Ghost and Morin up.

Hart in net

Would you do that trade?

 

[dag54]

what's the deal with Rubtsov? what is he projecting to? I actually dont mind a deal around 11th+Gudas+

Second line 60+ points potential. He was having a really good year with the Phantoms, but hurt his shoulder in the 14th game of the season, and was out the remainder of the year.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Provorov shouldnt come above 7 or so after his regressive year, and the hope is that Sanheim can get locked in at a reasonable rate - anything under 6 would honestly be a steal. That would give us our top 3 dmen locked in at 18Mil (inclusive of Ghost), and theyd all be locked in with term. Adding Trouba to that list rounds out to 25 Mil let's call it. Thats a pretty inexpensive and good top 4 that still has a lot of room to grow, as well.

the problem would be more about what we have to pay Seattle to not take one of them.

Well, lets say that Sanheim, Provorov and Trouba get around 20 mil between them. That leaves 13 million in space for a roster with only 16 contracts. How much is Konecny going to get after two 24 goal seasons? Most of the rest of that cap space is going to go into filling out the rest of the roster cheaply. And that's with Hart and Lyon as the only goaltenders of note on the roster (for a team that went through all the goaltenders last season). Its probably doable, but not exactly easy and not for a cheap price.

 

[Starat327]

I really appreciate the response. Thanks!

So for you 1st + Gudas or maybe Myers + 2nd but you'd rather keep Myers to play on your second pair ahead of Ghost. Ideally you'd want to roll out:

Provy - Trouba
Sanheim - Myers
Ghost - MacDonald/Hagg
Morin

You wouldn't move Frost/Patrick because one of them needs to play 3C. What if we traded you a 3C as part of the deal (Lowry/Copp)? Would you consider moving one of them then?

I'm really just hoping to get to a place where the Jets do one trade to check as many boxes as possible.

Trouba (extended) + Copp/Lowry + Vesalainen for 1st + Myers + Frost.

Flyers end up with:

G Couts Voracek
JVR Patrick Konecny
Farabee Copp/Lowry Vesalainen (probably pretty sheltered with 2 rookies but both Copp and Lowry are really strong defensively)
Lindbloom Laughton Hartman

Provy Trouba
Sanheim Gudas
Ghost Hagg
Morin

MacDonald in minors. Once Gudas walks you'd flip Sanheim back to the right side and slide Ghost and Morin up.

Hart in net

Would you do that trade?

Flyers cant trade Frost - or any C, really. Frost is a non-starter for about 99% of our fanbase.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Trouba situation will likely be resolved in less then 4 weeks now.......pace yourselves. It’s amusing having the #2 piece on the TSN trade list. Just waiting for the playoffs to finish before the storm of action happens, contracts, trades, draft and FA. Fun times!

I think it's going to be a fun summer as well, Draft could be pretty exciting.

 

[Snowman]

Their not trading Myers. I'd give up the 11th overall pick, Gudas and Rubtsov.

Then you would probably be better off lowering your sights. You won't get a young extended #1 RHD for that. I can understand not wanting to pony up the price though.

 

[DRW204]

Second line 60+ points potential. He was having a really good year with the Phantoms, but hurt his shoulder in the 14th game of the season, and was out the remainder of the year.

Hmmm ok I haven't seen a lick of his game so I don't have a qualified opinion on him. But I don't mind Gudas as a second pairing defensive dman that plays with bite and solid defensively. I think he's be a good partner for an offensive dman in Niku.

 

[Starat327]

Well, lets say that Sanheim, Provorov and Trouba get around 20 mil between them. That leaves 13 million in space for a roster with only 16 contracts. How much is Konecny going to get after two 24 goal seasons? Most of the rest of that cap space is going to go into filling out the rest of the roster cheaply. And that's with Hart and Lyon as the only goaltenders of note on the roster (for a team that went through all the goaltenders last season). Its probably doable, but not exactly easy and not for a cheap price.

Note that this roster includes AMac and Schlemko not being bought out or traded or whatever. It also includes estimates that are probably on the higher side for some of the non-impact players as well, but just wanted to demonstrate the ability.

Flyers have loads of cheap talent coming up in Frost, Farabee, Ratcliffe, Allison, Myers, etc that would allow us to move on from most of those players, as well as potentially exploring a trade of Gostisbehere after this year for an expansion exempt asset, assuming Myers and Sanheim continue to develop.

 

[Walt22]

I never claimed Trouba would be pennies on the dollar. But no one is paying the equivalent of 3 mid-1st rounders like what was just asked for.

They will get 1 very good asset like a top prospect or pick like #11, and then a secondary asset that can fill in now(like a Gudas), or a 2nd. They won't get 2 grade A assets back.

Stone returned Brannstrom and a 2nd. Brannstrom would likely have the value around #11....that's the A asset.

And I have said before, if Trouba gets back a deal that wow's me, I have no issue coming in and saying so. It does only take 1 GM to overpay. I personally wouldn't overpay in a trade because based on all his salary demands with the Jets, he wants big money. And I don't want the trickle down effect that will have on our young D.

Where does this theory of 3 mid firsts come from? i see 11th, 27th and undrafted when i look it up. that is not 3 mid 1sts.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Note that this roster includes AMac and Schlemko not being bought out or traded or whatever. It also includes estimates that are probably on the higher side for some of the non-impact players as well, but just wanted to demonstrate the ability.

Flyers have loads of cheap talent coming up in Frost, Farabee, Ratcliffe, Allison, Myers, etc that would allow us to move on from most of those players, as well as potentially exploring a trade of Gostisbehere after this year for an expansion exempt asset, assuming Myers and Sanheim continue to develop.

View attachment 229843

That's also a 21 man roster, not a 23 man roster. And its going into the season with Hart and Lyon as goaltenders, which seems like a bad idea. And does that include the retained cap for a buried Schlemko? because I don't see it.

 

[Starat327]

Where does this theory of 3 mid firsts come from? i see 11th, 27th and undrafted when i look it up. that is not 3 mid 1sts.

Yup, checks out.

 

[Snowman]

Hmmm ok I haven't seen a lick of his game so I don't have a qualified opinion on him. But I don't mind Gudas as a second pairing defensive dman that plays with bite and solid defensively. I think he's be a good partner for an offensive dman in Niku.

Anytime I see Flyer fans talk about Rubstov, it's not that favourable. I think the 60 point estimation would be if everything went exactly right and all the stars and planets lined up. So, a best case, not very likely, outcome, according to the Flyer boards.

 

[Starat327]

That's also a 21 man roster, not a 23 man roster. And its going into the season with Hart and Lyon as goaltenders, which seems like a bad idea.

Its also a roster that is 2 mil under the cap with both Schlemko in the minors and MacDonald on the roster. You think we cant promote someone that's already counting, or buyout MacDonald and sign two 13th forwards with that Money? I didn't think i had to go through that much detail to illustrate the point, which is its EASILY doable and with decent depth.

Also, that roster has Talbot as a backup, not Lyon. and i probably overpaid Talbot, too.

 

[Walt22]

View attachment 229845

Yup, checks out.

Ah..so no answer...checks out.