Value of: Trouba

[Hunter368]

Things change fast in new NHL.

Stop that stone-aged thinking.

What are you referring to even?

 

[Smitty426]

If Detroit loads both Mike Green and Filip Hronek for Trouba, then the spot falls on him.

Red ings quite obviously is the leading destination for Trouba.

They have

- American City to play for
- Assets to give Jets prefer (Green, Hronek, Athanasiou, draft picks)
- No cap problems like contenders
- Reasonable long-term contract to give (~7.3M ballpark)
- His home State to play in front of family like Ryan Suter liked
- 1st PP spot, which he never did got at Winnipeg behind Big Buff
- A Roster core which will fit on his age and prime (Larkin, AA, Mantha, Bertuzzi)

Any other team won't check those all boxes.

In Florida he would be behind Yandle and Ekblad, in Tampa, no chance to fit on cap etc. etc.

Other than the home state, there are other teams for sure.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

My big issue is that Trouba is going to want to be paid as a 50 point Dman(rightfully so) and be on the #1PP. In Philly, that is not going to happen so then he reverts back to a 35 point Dman and he likely becomes unhappy. And I think he knows he won't be on the #1PP so will actually rule out the Flyers.

I mean if he gets paid as a 50 point defender for eight years, do the fifteen points or lack of power play really matter going forward? We can differentiate the even strength value he offers and still realize that the fun stats wont be inflated due to ghost anchoring the first power play.

 

[The Madrigal]

See all the Jets fans jumping at those offers. Shows you how much of an overpayment they are. They won't get 2 A assets and a B...they will get 1 A...and 2 B's.

We will have to agree to disagree then. Ideally the Flyers could get him for 11, Myers, and someone like Rubtsov/Vorovbyev OR a second round pick. I just don't think that gets it done.

 

[Tripod]

I mean if he gets paid as a 50 point defender for eight years, do the fifteen points or lack of power play really matter going forward? We can differentiate the even strength value he offers and still realize that the fun stats wont be inflated due to ghost anchoring the first power play.

Yes it matters because of the trickle down effect it could have on Provy, Sanheim and possibly Myers. Provy and Sanheim have both posted seasons where they had more ES points than Trouba ever has in his career. Agents will bring that up.

If he was a 35 point Dman right now due to still no #1PP time, the value to acquire him is lower than it is now. The team that acquires him likely does so with the intention on him playing top PP minutes to get the best out of the investment. For Philly, that just is not the case so will likely get outbid by someone who needs not only a RHD, but one they can use on the top PP.

It's all about what his contract would do to the rest of the young D...especially if they are outscoring Trouba.

 

[Tripod]

We will have to agree to disagree then. Ideally the Flyers could get him for 11, Myers, and someone like Rubtsov/Vorovbyev OR a second round pick. I just don't think that gets it done.

They don't get the equivalent of 2 top #11 picks AND a 2nd rounder for him. That is far from ideal on the Flyers end...lol. And you are saying they get more. We will see in the end and compare.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Yes it matters because of the trickle down effect it could have on Provy, Sanheim and possibly Myers. Provy and Sanheim have both posted seasons where they had more ES points than Trouba ever has in his career. Agents will bring that up.

If he was a 35 point Dman right now due to still no #1PP time, the value to acquire him is lower than it is now. The team that acquires him likely does so with the intention on him playing top PP minutes to get the best out of the investment. For Philly, that just is not the case so will likely get outbid by someone who needs not only a RHD, but one they can use on the top PP.

It's all about what his contract would do to the rest of the young D...especially if they are outscoring Trouba.

Really though, if we go out and get trouba and sign him, the only one that it may have an impact in the somewhat near future is myers. I mean sanheim isn’t anywhere near as established which will impact the negotiations. I think provorov is going to get paid regardless, just the way the organization views him. Myers opportunities will be lessened for sure.

For the matter, the overall opportunity for any of those defenders goes down as we improve the depth. Only so many minutes to go around. For the same reason trouba won’t get first pp time, it doesn’t appear that sanheim will either (I disagree with that to a degree but c’est la vie) or Myers. I think we are going to end up with a group of 25-35 es scoring defenders. Those extra 15-20 ppp are going to really impact values.

 

[The Madrigal]

They don't get the equivalent of 2 top #11 picks AND a 2nd rounder for him. That is far from ideal on the Flyers end...lol. And you are saying they get more. We will see in the end and compare.

LMAO, I hope I am wrong so it's not some competition over who is right even if you want to make it that. I would obviously love to get him for less than I said I would give up. My point was if it takes that much I am willing to do it. Troubas just don't become available that often and I think he would be a perfect partner for Provorov to help him take his game back to where it was two years ago and even better. In my opinion Trouba is EXACTLY what the Flyers need right now so in the case I am willing to take a risk and pay a premium price for him. I like Spurgeon but he is four years older and I think Trouba is better now and still progressing at 25 years old so I would give up much more to get him.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

Can we post all ludicrous proposals or opinions from fan forums? Don't paint all jets fans from the board with the same brush.

Guys. They caught us, fair and square. Now everyone knows that we all meetups every Thursday at 8 for our weekly What to Say on HFBoards meetings and that nobody leaves until we get consensus.

Looks like we'll have to start our own website. Bring your name ideas to the meeting.

 

[heilongjetsfan]

Barrie+16th overall+2020 second+Ottawa 2019 third for Trouba+Kulikov+Rights to Hayes

I consider Kulikov a cap dump, if that is not the case I can either add a small asset or take him out completely.

Done!

 

[PhilJets]

My wish is

Either

2C or
Legit 2nd RD pairing + pick


Jets not gonna get a 1 for 1 1st pairing D for Trouba.

 

[Henkka]

When I went all teams trought with certain things:

- Team not located in Canada
- Team not in salary cap problems
- Team not having a surefire better 1st PP quarterback

Preferable teams left for Trouba

- Anaheim
- Detroit
- Islanders
- Devils

After these teams, the decision falls on the trade-package which anyone has to give to fill Jets' current holes.

 

[DRW204]

When I went all teams trought with certain things:

- Team not located in Canada
- Team not in salary cap problems
- Team not having a surefire better 1st PP quarterback

Preferable teams left for Trouba

- Anaheim
- Detroit
- Islanders
- Devils

After these teams, the decision falls on the trade-package which anyone has to give to fill Jets' current holes.

I think Florida still needs a legit top pairing RD. I am not sure if Ekblad is good enough for that 5v5 he leaves a bit to be desired imo. after that their RD depth is Weegar and Pysyk. Yandle is a very good PP player though. I think they can fit him depending on what they do with the goalies/Panarin of course. Also the Rangers

 

[Huffer]

A assets would be Farabee, Frost and Myers from our prospects list and of course #11. The next tier would be guys like Ratcliffe, Allison, O'Brien, Rubstov, Vorobyev, Laczynski, etc... if we are talking F. On D, it would be Hagg, Morin, Ginning, Hogberg, Zamula, etc... For goalies, they have Ersson, Sandstrom, Ustimenko but goalies and values vary and 2 of those guys just have fantastic years so are likely valued high. Ersson could be viewed as an A asset by mgt, who knows.

Fwiw, Fletch when talking about the prospects, thru Ratcliffe into that A tier even though I personally think he is below.

Thanks. I like Ratcliffe. Something around an "A" piece, Ratcliffe, and a 2nd (or another B piece), could work I would think.

I do have a question though. If another team, (or the Flyers), had a player the value of Trouba (a 25 year old top pair D man), and he was willing to extend on the Jets, would you consider Niku and Vesalainen as a massive overpayment? You'd be giddy in getting that return for your Trouba? Because those are 2 "A" assets if Frost and Myers are.

 

[ThankGord]

May have been brought up before, but does Trouba for Tyler Johnson or J.T. Miller make sense as a base? Jets get a 2c, Lightning round out their Top 4.

 

[Starat327]

Thanks. I like Ratcliffe. Something around an "A" piece, Ratcliffe, and a 2nd (or another B piece), could work I would think.

I do have a question though. If another team, (or the Flyers), had a player the value of Trouba (a 25 year old top pair D man), and he was willing to extend on the Jets, would you consider Niku and Vesalainen as a massive overpayment? You'd be giddy in getting that return for your Trouba? Because those are 2 "A" assets if Frost and Myers are.

From a straight value perspective? Probably. I havent followed Vesalainens development, but I liked what i saw researching him during the draft that year. Niku is a valuable piece, but holds less value to the flyers because we're severely deep on LD. It would be the equivalent of us offering you a winger given your embarrassment of riches in that department already. In that situation, I would prefer the mid range 1st over Niku, most likely (without thinking in depth about Expansion draft status, etc).

 

[Tripod]

Thanks. I like Ratcliffe. Something around an "A" piece, Ratcliffe, and a 2nd (or another B piece), could work I would think.

I do have a question though. If another team, (or the Flyers), had a player the value of Trouba (a 25 year old top pair D man), and he was willing to extend on the Jets, would you consider Niku and Vesalainen as a massive overpayment? You'd be giddy in getting that return for your Trouba? Because those are 2 "A" assets if Frost and Myers are.

I can't speak for Vesa or Niku as I have not seem them nearly enough.

FWIW, the Hockey News had Frost #26, Vesa #32, Myers #65, and Niku #77 in their Future Watch this Spring. So right around the same rankings. Not sure how you feel about your own guys, but we do see Frost, Myers and Farabee as A assets....as well as the #11 pick.

 

[Huffer]

From a straight value perspective? Probably. I havent followed Vesalainens development, but I liked what i saw researching him during the draft that year. Niku is a valuable piece, but holds less value to the flyers because we're severely deep on LD. It would be the equivalent of us offering you a winger given your embarrassment of riches in that department already. In that situation, I would prefer the mid range 1st over Niku, most likely (without thinking in depth about Expansion draft status, etc).

I can't speak for Vesa or Niku as I have not seem them nearly enough.

FWIW, the Hockey News had Frost #26, Vesa #32, Myers #65, and Niku #77 in their Future Watch this Spring. So right around the same rankings. Not sure how you feel about your own guys, but we do see Frost, Myers and Farabee as A assets....as well as the #11 pick.

Thanks guys. I'm actually surprised that you would take Niku and Vesalainen (from a value perspective) for your 25 year old top end player. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out. An "A" and 2 "B"s is a very likely scenario based on past Hamonic and Hamilton trades.

 

[Starat327]

Thanks guys. I'm actually surprised that you would take Niku and Vesalainen (from a value perspective) for your 25 year old top end player. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out. An "A" and 2 "B"s is a very likely scenario based on past Hamonic and Hamilton trades.

Like any trade, it would entirely depend on the circumstances. Context is so important in determining why trades are made and what the return is, which is why i never really understand why everyone treats the "X player only got Y, youre crazy to think A is getting B,C, and D" mantra as if its carved in stone.

I took this from the viewpoint I have of Trouba's situation in Winnipeg (pending RFA, seems unlikely he wants to re-sign long term, etc), as well as Winnipeg's current situation (competing, but appear to be facing some cap issues). If Philly is competing and Provorov doesnt want to re-sign, and we have depth to 'replace' him, i certainly consider 2 young NHL ready pieces that could step in(presumably), especially if it lets me sign other players or my own RFAs that allow me to keep that window open.

 

[axlrose87]

So what do you think a 25 year old top pairing RHD who just had a 50 point season while playing a shutdown role IS worth?

An absolute boatload.... if he came with a reasonable contract.
Sounds like that will not be happening so it is drastically less.
You're right though; it is very difficult to figure out his value. What do you trade for a one year rental of this caliber, with a chance to sign him to an extension(although I believe he is definitely going to free agency)?

 

[Hunter368]

May have been brought up before, but does Trouba for Tyler Johnson or J.T. Miller make sense as a base? Jets get a 2c, Lightning round out their Top 4.

Personally no interest in Tyler J, however Miller might be interesting. Can the Bolts fit Trouba 7.5+ New cap hit in assuming Miller was traded? Jets can’t take more cap back

 

[ThankGord]

Personally no interest in Tyler J, however Miller might be interesting. Can the Bolts fit Trouba 7.5+ New cap hit in assuming Miller was traded? Jets can’t take more cap back

I'm a Detroit fan so I don't have a lot invested in this deal, just makes sense to me...

But, with Miller off the books and if they deal Callahan's contract then I think they can fit Trouba in pretty easily and resign Point with room left to round out the rest of the roster.

Does Tampa have to add to Miller to get Trouba?

 

[Huffer]

I'm a Detroit fan so I don't have a lot invested in this deal, just makes sense to me...

But, with Miller off the books and if they deal Callahan's contract then I think they can fit Trouba in pretty easily and resign Point with room left to round out the rest of the roster.

Does Tampa have to add to Miller to get Trouba?

If Tampa was getting an extended Trouba, I wouldn't be happy with just Miller back. Plus, the Jets have their own cap issues adding another forward at that salary.

 

[DRW204]

Personally no interest in Tyler J, however Miller might be interesting. Can the Bolts fit Trouba 7.5+ New cap hit in assuming Miller was traded? Jets can’t take more cap back

Why interested in Miller? He's not good at C from what I've gathered from TBL fans. He'd be making 5M+ for a bottom 6 role on the Jets. He's a solid producer but just with the talent on the Wing i don't think Miller would be a good option

 

[Hunter368]

If Tampa was getting an extended Trouba, I wouldn't be happy with just Miller back. Plus, the Jets have their own cap issues adding another forward at that salary.

Why interested in Miller? He's not good at C from what I've gathered from TBL fans. He'd be making 5M+ for a bottom 6 role on the Jets. He's a solid producer but just with the talent on the Wing i don't think Miller would be a good option

Miller+

Miller good? He’s solid, I’m not saying I would do it but it was one I would have the scouts investigate to learn more about his game.