Proposal: Trouba Mega Thread Part VII

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Yikes has this thread gotten petty and nasty.

1) Can someone start a thread for this NYR vs Jets management so that argument can be removed from this thread. Thousands of words written that have nothing to do with Trouba.

2) Facts - everyone stating equivocally one way or the other (fans on ALL sides) what is going to happen are all just guessing. Chevy could have got more or less at the draft or before the season, same with the Dec-1st deadline and next summer. Only once the transaction has been made will we know. EVERY post should be qualified with "I feel" or "in my opinion".

3) No one knows what has been offered. Jets fans are supportive of management taking their time to get this right. The team and many of their fans don't want Trouba traded because we see what the price is to acquire a player like him and don't want to try to get another one to replace him.

Lastly if the reports are true that TML and the Jets had agreed to a trade and Overhardt nixed it then it's pretty unfair to blame Chevy for dragging his heels. Let's keep in mind that Chevy doesn't read HF Boards and any "spite" being sensed in our fans posts shouldn't be attached to the teams thought process.

 

[Romang67]

I dont know what you are discussing but i have a pretty hard time believing no teams would offer anything close to what is "fair" for Trouba or even overpay a little. RH young defensemen with twoway top pair potential. Thinking Chevy is getting weak offers is unrealistic... Im not saying he should just take the first he gets, not at all, but i cant believe for one second he doesnt have some very solid offers on the table.

I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. If teams are willing to overpay for Trouba, a trade will happen. If not, especially if teams aren't willing to give equal value back, it's not certain that a trade will happen, regardless if that means that Trouba sits out the year.

And if that happens, meh. Trouba is free to sit out the year, and it will probably be a horrible financial decision for him. I'd be happier if we get value for him this season, but if no offers are worthwhile, I don't think Chevy should settle for inadequate value just because the deadline is looming.

 

[Sonny21]

Should put up a pole in the next thread asking if people think he'll sign, be traded or sit out past Dec 1.

 

[Savant]

Yikes has this thread gotten petty and nasty

Lastly if the reports are true that TML and the Jets had agreed to a trade and Overhardt nixed it then it's pretty unfair to blame Chevy for dragging his heels. Let's keep in mind that Chevy doesn't read HF Boards and any "spite" being sensed in our fans posts shouldn't be attached to the teams thought process.

I agree. Jets are playing the Rangers tomorrow, so Chevy will get an up close and personal look.

I don't think anything is happening until November 30th by the way. I do think the Jets will make a deal, although not necessarily with the Rangers. Trouba's value isn't going to get worse but, if someone gets an injury and other teams go in that only helps him out.

As for the Rangers despite their great start, they definitely need another defenseman at some point. For obvious reasons, they won't be as desperate now, but they will need to do something. They can wait now though. It's harder to see what they would give up in a trade. I think any offer included their 1st round pick, which in a move for a guy like Trouba makes sense, (for Shattenkirk not so much). Skjei and Miller, the most likely targets, have improved their play dramatically this season and are not a lock to be on the block. It's pretty interesting. Something is going to give at some point though. I just wouldn't expect anything until after Thanksgiving.

Is the Ms. Trouba med school thing legit by the way?

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

I agree. Jets are playing the Rangers tomorrow, so Chevy will get an up close and personal look.

I don't think anything is happening until November 30th by the way. I do think the Jets will make a deal, although not necessarily with the Rangers. Trouba's value isn't going to get worse but, if someone gets an injury and other teams go in that only helps him out.

As for the Rangers despite their great start, they definitely need another defenseman at some point. For obvious reasons, they won't be as desperate now, but they will need to do something. They can wait now though. It's harder to see what they would give up in a trade. I think any offer included their 1st round pick, which in a move for a guy like Trouba makes sense, (for Shattenkirk not so much). Skjei and Miller, the most likely targets, have improved their play dramatically this season and are not a lock to be on the block. It's pretty interesting. Something is going to give at some point though. I just wouldn't expect anything until after Thanksgiving.

Is the Ms. Trouba med school thing legit by the way?

In a vacuum it sort of makes sense. But given that the media release was about RH usage (debunked with the no fit in Canada re: TOR and EDM), then we get the theory that his parents want him in a bigger market to develop his "brand" (the Jacob Trouba app ), there's the "his dad can't cross the border" so he needs to play in the States, then we get his GF can't get accepted into the U of M (Manitoba) Med Program (apparently most Canadian schools don't accept international students into their med programs? Who knew - rhetorical question)

So I don't know what to think. As many have pointed out; she's not guaranteed to get accepted in whatever city he would end up in.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

I agree. Jets are playing the Rangers tomorrow, so Chevy will get an up close and personal look.

I don't think anything is happening until November 30th by the way. I do think the Jets will make a deal, although not necessarily with the Rangers. Trouba's value isn't going to get worse but, if someone gets an injury and other teams go in that only helps him out.

As for the Rangers despite their great start, they definitely need another defenseman at some point. For obvious reasons, they won't be as desperate now, but they will need to do something. They can wait now though. It's harder to see what they would give up in a trade. I think any offer included their 1st round pick, which in a move for a guy like Trouba makes sense, (for Shattenkirk not so much). Skjei and Miller, the most likely targets, have improved their play dramatically this season and are not a lock to be on the block. It's pretty interesting. Something is going to give at some point though. I just wouldn't expect anything until after Thanksgiving.

Is the Ms. Trouba med school thing legit by the way?

I'll definitely be keeping my eyes on those guys. When teams only play each other twice a year it's hard to get a good handle on players outside of the league stars (that don't play for your team or at least in your conference)

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I still feel a three way trade between Nashville, Edmonton, and Winnipeg is the best.

 

[ultron*]

The rumoured Leafs Jets trade that Overhardt said no to. Any indication of what pieces the Leafs offered?

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

The rumored Leafs Jets trade that Overhardt said no to. Any indication of what pieces the Leafs offered?

Unfortunately nothing was mentioned with the report... just that they were told "Canada was not a fit". Must have been something pretty good. Now we'll never know.

 

[ultron*]

Unfortunately nothing was mentioned with the report... just that they were told "Canada was not a fit". Must have been something pretty good. Now we'll never know.

I see. I stopped following Trouba news a while ago but when I read the Leafs were possibly involved I was like "woah". Leafs have been pretty steadfast in the rebuild so a trade as big as one for Trouba would be cool.

I'd guess it was Gardiner+ if Jets wanted a LHD.

Oh well. Rielly-Trouba would've been nice

 

[Riptide]

Doubtful, but I could see a 1 year low ball contract to facilitate a trade window. 2 years? Never. That would just get him to arbitration and diminish his trade value to any team not on his wish list. Four or five years is more likely, but still a crap shoot for both.

Pretty sure he has arbitration rights after 4 years of service.

 

[Riptide]

He's not going to the KHL for 5 years. Get real.

The GM is so spiteful that he would rather hurt his own team then help him so as to avoid setting a bad precedent. Meanwhile me fans of his team are ok with it, definitely very interesting.

Almost no chance of that happening. Trouba will come back and sign a 1-2 yr deal before the deadline. He simply has too much to lose otherwise.

 

[Riptide]

You don't think it would hurt our small market team more if upcoming RFA's were under the impression that they could just refuse to sign in order to leave Winnipeg? I don't see what makes you call Cheveldayoff spiteful. Unless you truly feel that he refuses to trade Trouba because he wants to hurt Trouba personally?

Any drafted player can already do that. If they're in juniors, they can wait 2 years from their draft year and will be re-entered into the NHL draft. If they're in college, they can wait 3 (or 4?) years and decide to turn pro, and after 3-4 months where they do not sign with the team that drafted them, will be a UFA (Wheeler, Vesey, Hayes, etc). Do you really think that this is going to help Winnipeg's case with other young players?

 

[Riptide]

That is precisely how the system was designed to work (the CBA at the time). Blake Wheeler never had a contractual commitment to that organization (chose to wait 4 years). He didn't receive any monetary compensation for his services, and was therefore, a Free Agent. That Organization hadn't invested a single penny into Blake's development.

Jacob Trouba, on the other hand, is the property of the Winnipeg Jets (as it pertains to the NHL). And this most recent CBA (unlike the previous K. Turris edition) prohibits Mr. Trouba from playing in the league, if he doesn't obey the terms of the ratified Agreement by Dec.1st.

You're clueless if you believe that. They didn't pay him, but that doesn't mean for a second that Wheeler (Vesey and others) didn't benefit from trainers (training camps) and other specialists from their teams while still in college.

 

[Evil Little]

The GM is so spiteful that he would rather hurt his own team then help him so as to avoid setting a bad precedent. Meanwhile me fans of his team are ok with it, definitely very interesting.

How much is he hurting his own team? None of the good players on offer in these threads are of any immediate need for the Jets.

And he should! But is it the best for Jets to hold out because of setting a precedence if thats the main reason?
Its not a problem in todays NHL, rarely happens, Drouin situation it happened for one of the best teams in the league etc. Its not a problem for small market teams, look at Florida. Everyone resigned longterm. I just dont believe that it will become a problem if they trade him...
With that said, Chevy shouldnt trade him before he gets what he feels he wants/needs etc. But i dont buy the precedence thing, i just dont believe for one second it will become a problem going forward.

Trouba has some decent reasons, his father, girlfriend going to medical school etc. Its not that he just said hey i hate Winnipeg, trade me. I still believe the Jets should do what they think its best and the Jets has all the power but sometimes the best thing is to talk together and find a solution that works for everyone. Kind of seems like Chevy has made this about Trouba not wanting to play for the Jets, when it atleast to a certain point is Trouba wanting to play another place because of some decent reasons. Not saying that is a reason to just trade him but i just think the whole thing could have been handled better, atleast it looks like that from the outside..

Nobody is acknowledging how much this is about Trouba filling a massive position of need for the Jets. He's the only top pairing D man on the team whose prime will be concurrent with those of Schiefele, Laine, Ehlers, Hellebuyck, and Connor. This future core has been very carefully designed. If Trouba wants out he needs to garner a replacement, and none of what I've seen offered counts as that.

"Him" in this case is actually Chevy.

Like I said both parties come off really bad here but it think WPG loses more if Trouba sits a year. Not only do they not get his services but they also don't get any valuable assets for him to help his team now.

And how many of those valuable assets are better than what the Jets already have? I see a whole bunch of older, worse defencemen and wingers that I wouldn't want blocking Ehlers, Connor, et al even if they're better right now.

Find me a comparably young, comparably high end D who isn't a disgruntled liar with all of the charm of a potato and I'll gladly make the swap.

I think you are totally and 1000% right that Chevy can force Trouba into signing. There is a lot of calculus that has to go into what you think will happen after you force Trouba to sign, though. It could be toxic. It could be fine. I'd put more money on the former than the latter.

So sweet of you to be so concerned about the Jets. I can make you an avatar if you like.

Any drafted player can already do that. If they're in juniors, they can wait 2 years from their draft year and will be re-entered into the NHL draft. If they're in college, they can wait 3 (or 4?) years and decide to turn pro, and after 3-4 months where they do not sign with the team that drafted them, will be a UFA (Wheeler, Vesey, Hayes, etc). Do you really think that this is going to help Winnipeg's case with other young players?

This is true. But I don't see why rights teams don't have under the current CBA should make teams happy to forfeit rights they do have under the CBA. Trouba could have waited four years; he didn't. Instead he became incredibly important to the Jets' present and future.

Watch what happens with Tucker Poolman next year. Another American RHD who will be eligible for UFA come 8/15. The Jets will try to sign him after his season, just as they tried to after his last two.

I know everyone's really concerned about the Jets' ability to sign drafted talent. Really excited to see if Poolman will run scared given the meanie Jets' recent track-record.

 

[RangerBoy]

The bolded is completely untrue. I'm guessing the "him" is Jacob Trouba.

IMO, the Winnipeg Jets/TNSE are honoring Kurt Overhardt's request. The Trouba Camp asked to be granted the right to negotiate on their own terms (find a suitable trade partner).

Unfortunately, this looks a lot like what happens, when people represent themselves in criminal cases (ill equipped for a complex endeavor).

As has been reported, it's business as usual for TNSE (not even trying to trade Jacob).
Hopefully Trouba's people figure it out soon.....as time is coming to a close.

Trouba is a group II. Overhardt doesn't need permission to speak with other teams.

 

[Benstheman]

Who is worth more ?? Pacioretty or Trouba??

For me it's Pacioretty and easily. Which covers the fact that Ehlers worth more than Beaulieu, or almost. Maybe a pick would need to be involved.

But i sense the problem here is people think Trouba worths more than Pacioretty, which is impossible.

Trouba is a no.2 D at best. Let's say he is a no.2 on most of teams and no.3 on some. He is already trying to get out of the team that drafted him. Would want a salary higher than what he is worth.

Pacioretty is, a 35 goals scorer, no.1 LW on an incredibly stupid contract.

I don't know what Peg fans think Trouba is but he isn't worth Pacioretty.

 

[TheNumber4]

Hoping Trouba continues to rot away the year with his selfishness. Or whatever's better for the Jets fans and the organization.

Absolutely bull **** that this spoiled child is dictating terms.

 

[Confucius]

Not true. It's the worst decision for Trouba, it may or may not be the worst decision for the Jets. The latter depends entirely on what is being offered as the deadline approaches. If the best offers for Trouba are built around futures, they're better off letting him sit the season and waiting until the draft. If the best offer for Trouba brings back a similar quality player, it probably makes sense to deal him.

It's likely that Trouba fetches more at the draft than he does in late November. Chevy needs to weigh that versus what they're losing in 2016-17 by not replacing him.

Teams pretty well have to trade salary for salary at this time of year, probably is best to wait for the summer now.

 

[civic204]

If the Jets let players coming off entry level contracts push them around it will hurt the team more in the long run. They need to nip this in the bud. RFAS should not have de facto modified trade clauses. They should wait until they a UFA and then they can go wherever they want.

Jack Roslovic and Kyle Connor are both RFAs in 2019. Both are American. Connor is from the same area as Trouba. I'm not saying they will be wanting out like Trouba but we can't afford to set a precedent or give them any ideas.

And BTW, Jets fans are not the only ones with this line of thought. Various senior people within hockey circles are saying the same thing about the situation.

You speak the truth. Can't see the Jets letting Trouba get his way.

 

[cobra427]

I don't really understand what you're trying to say here. If teams are willing to overpay for Trouba, a trade will happen. If not, especially if teams aren't willing to give equal value back, it's not certain that a trade will happen, regardless if that means that Trouba sits out the year.

And if that happens, meh. Trouba is free to sit out the year, and it will probably be a horrible financial decision for him. I'd be happier if we get value for him this season, but if no offers are worthwhile, I don't think Chevy should settle for inadequate value just because the deadline is looming.

What ever "inadequate value" as you say, Chevy gets for Trouba in the next few weeks is likely to be greater than the inadequate value he gets for him if he signs a short deal with the Jets. Any team trading for Trouba will want him locked in long term. Even less inadequate value next summer if he sits for a year. The one way Trouba is worth more is if he signs a 4 year deal with the Jets, and plays well, then he is worth more in a trade, and that is highly unlikely.

Chevy is dealing with this reality of Trouba value: This summer>before the season started>now>If he signs a short deal>next summer if he sits out. Sucks for Chevy (and his ego) but the sooner he deals with it the better off the Jets will be.

By the way, I am not a fan of Trouba. The same thing happened to the coyotes in the Wheeler and Turris situations with high end prospects that did not want to be in AZ. It sucks for the Jets, but the sooner you deal with it the better. Get rid of the distraction, make your best deal, and move on.

 

[NYCFlyer]

Teams pretty well have to trade salary for salary at this time of year, probably is best to wait for the summer now.

This is he biggest impediment to a fair hockey trade. There is almost no chance of Chevy finding a team willing to give up an excellent young dman signed long term for an player they are not sure how he will fit in on and off the ice. He has been trying to find a match since before the draft. If he takes back a bad contract I think he could acquire a similar but younger talent. Why wait until the draft and then get someone that will take years to develop. Let Trouba go and move on without the drama. He for whatever reason is willing to sit rather than play there. He has and will make plenty of cash in his career, the money argument for him giving in doesn't seem enough.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

The rumoured Leafs Jets trade that Overhardt said no to. Any indication of what pieces the Leafs offered?

Doubt it would be around Rielly, Maybe something around Gardiner+Kapanen. Or something like that guess we will never know.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Not if the Avs really want Trouba and he's willing to sign with them.

True, It just sounds like Trouba wont sign with any Canadian team, But we don't know about the American teams. Maybe Trouba would commit to signing long term with Colorado just don't know yet. Of what American teams he would consider a trade to.

 

[Orvald]

I think the asking price is to high for Trouba, he couldn't even beat out Myers for a top 4 D spot. To me Trouba's ceiling is #3 - 4 D spot.
If the asking price is at the level of #1D , they'll never get that.