Proposal: Trouba Mega Thread Part VI

[haveandare]

Prove to me he loses value? You have no idea what you are talking about. You have no idea what offers have been made and have no way of comparing them to the eventual deal if it is made.

That was in the context of a discussion about the outcome of him missing a year.

You shouldn't need proof that a player who hasn't played in a year is worth less than the same player if they'd been signed and playing the whole time. That's pretty obvious.

 

[New User Name]

Unfortunately, the Jets at are going to hold fast to the principle even if there is some collateral damage.
I'm sure they have the support of the other Canadian teams.

I'm sure they have the support of all 30 NHL teams.

Unfortunately/fortunately (depends on how one looks it it) professional athletes don't have the freedom of where they're going to play in a draft system.

Until that changes, athletes will be forced to possibly NOT play where they want.

As for Trouba and as a non Jets fan I back the Jets 100% in this situation.
We've heard nothing but BS reasons for not wanting to play there and IMHO Jacob is just a little sniveling crybaby....who happens to be a good hockey player. I'd also say he or his agent is a liar.

 

[haveandare]

Still don't see how a 22 year old potential top pairing D loses value.

You don't see how a player who hasn't played in a year is worth less than they'd be if they'd been playing?

An important factor in a player's value is the certainty with which a team can expect them to perform a certain way. Players who have played well over long periods of time are worth more than those who have just had weak seasons. If a player missed an entire year at 22 and hasn't played in the NHL since, the certainty with which a team acquiring them can expect a specific level of play is lower, therefore the value will likely be lower as well.

 

[haveandare]

You are not discussing anything. you are taking shots at the Jets management for doing what they feel is right. Rumor has it the jets would never trade him to the Rangers anyways

I'm discussing it, I happen to disagree with the idea that sitting him out a year is reasonable option or anything but a gigantic mistake and I'm explaining why. I'd like him as a Ranger, but I'd like any number of top 4 RHDs as Rangers as well. If he gets traded somewhere else before Dec 1st for a good haul, it'll be a smart move just the same as if he's moved to the Rangers.

 

[aj8000]

That was in the context of a discussion about the outcome of him missing a year.

You shouldn't need proof that a player who hasn't played in a year is worth less than the same player if they'd been signed and playing the whole time. That's pretty obvious.

Says you. It is not that obvious considering there are other factors involved here. We know he is refusing to go to certain cities in a trade. You do not know how long that list is, you do not know if he has tanked is value already by saying that he will not play for certain teams. The jets best course maybe to hold on to him to see if he comes to his senses. So your "pretty obvious" is just a pipe dream. Thanks for coming out tho.

 

[New User Name]

You don't see how a player who hasn't played in a year is worth less than they'd be if they'd been playing?

An important factor in a player's value is the certainty with which a team can expect them to perform a certain way. Players who have played well over long periods of time are worth more than those who have just had weak seasons. If a player missed an entire year at 22 and hasn't played in the NHL since, the certainty with which a team acquiring them can expect a specific level of play is lower, therefore the value will likely be lower as well.

I disagree, especially a 23/24 year old player.

Of course if it comes to that, Trouba isn't going to be sitting on the couch in daddies house pigging out on doritos and little caesars pizzas. He'll be working out at least 5 days a week.

Obvious he won't be in game shape but at his age that won't take long to get back to.

 

[aj8000]

I'm discussing it, I happen to disagree with the idea that sitting him out a year is reasonable option or anything but a gigantic mistake and I'm explaining why. I'd like him as a Ranger, but I'd like any number of top 4 RHDs as Rangers as well. If he gets traded somewhere else before Dec 1st for a good haul, it'll be a smart move just the same as if he's moved to the Rangers.

You just want us to agree that the trade with the rangers is the best move. Not going to happen

 

[Flair Hay]

It is Jacob Trouba we are talking about, not Doughty, Weber, Suter, Subban, Karlsson...Should I keep going?

This is a #3 d-man with the potential to be a #1. Skjei is a #6 in his first year in the NHL that is already pushing to be the #3 and running the 2nd PP unit. While their development curves are different, their top end COULD (not will be) wind up being very similar. Miller is absolutely worth that difference and very well may be overpayment.

Instead of making a dollar for dollar trade, you could be trading a dollar for 75 cents and 75 cents and wind up with a dollar fity....

All true. Keep in mind though...

What if you can find your own $0.75 player and keep the $1 player? I'm sure that's how the Jets are looking at it.

 

[aj8000]

You don't see how a player who hasn't played in a year is worth less than they'd be if they'd been playing?

An important factor in a player's value is the certainty with which a team can expect them to perform a certain way. Players who have played well over long periods of time are worth more than those who have just had weak seasons. If a player missed an entire year at 22 and hasn't played in the NHL since, the certainty with which a team acquiring them can expect a specific level of play is lower, therefore the value will likely be lower as well.

Players are hurt for a year and they come back and do just fine. Trouba will be just fine as well when he comes back. I am sorry, but your premise is wrong

 

[Randal61]

You don't see how a player who hasn't played in a year is worth less than they'd be if they'd been playing?

An important factor in a player's value is the certainty with which a team can expect them to perform a certain way. Players who have played well over long periods of time are worth more than those who have just had weak seasons. If a player missed an entire year at 22 and hasn't played in the NHL since, the certainty with which a team acquiring them can expect a specific level of play is lower, therefore the value will likely be lower as well.

Don't Agree, at 22 his game shouldn't regress. He's 22 and played in the NHL for 3 years. How is it different from a player being injured long term and coming back.
If you got it, you got it.
If you play hockey at the professional level, one year off won't hurt you.

 

[wintersej]

I'd be happy with Miller and Skjei, less happy with Carlo and Spooner.

Interesting! Not trying to start an argument, but curious as to why? Just Carlo/Skjei's handedness?

 

[Hunter368]

I'd be happy with Miller and Skjei, less happy with Carlo and Spooner.

Agreed, I would be ok with Miller, Skjei and a pick.

Spooner, Carlo and pick, a bit less but still not bad.

 

[Jeti]

Don't Agree, at 22 his game shouldn't regress. He's 22 and played in the NHL for 3 years. How is it different from a player being injured long term and coming back.
If you got it, you got it.
If you play hockey at the professional level, one year off won't hurt you.

It's a year he's not developing further though. It likely hurts his development long-term. These are prime years. Teams interested in Trouba aren't just interested in him as a #2 right now, but as a possible #1 in the future too.

 

[haveandare]

Says you. It is not that obvious considering there are other factors involved here. We know he is refusing to go to certain cities in a trade. You do not know how long that list is, you do not know if he has tanked is value already by saying that he will not play for certain teams. The jets best course maybe to hold on to him to see if he comes to his senses. So your "pretty obvious" is just a pipe dream. Thanks for coming out tho.

None of that changes the fact that a player not playing for a year is a hit on their value. Even if he wants to go to one team, he's worth less to them when he hasn't played a year.

You just want us to agree that the trade with the rangers is the best move. Not going to happen

Thanks for telling me what I want. I specifically said this isn't the case. Let me discuss this situation, if you don't like what I have to say feel free to block me or just not respond every 2 minutes.

Players are hurt for a year and they come back and do just fine. Trouba will be just fine as well when he comes back. I am sorry, but your premise is wrong

How often are players hurt for an entire year? How many of those have come back just fine?

Don't Agree, at 22 his game shouldn't regress. He's 22 and played in the NHL for 3 years. How is it different from a player being injured long term and coming back.
If you got it, you got it.
If you play hockey at the professional level, one year off won't hurt you.

Its not that different than being injured and coming back, but what sample size do we have of people being injured for an entire year and coming back? Also, see below:

It's a year he's not developing further though. It likely hurts his development long-term. These are prime years. Teams interested in Trouba aren't just interested in him as a #2 right now, but as a possible #1 in the future too.

This is a good point too. He's not at his ceiling, a year off now can do a lot of damage to his progression as a player.

 

[Coach Parker]

Except you said stats, not value. I don't disagree on value. I simply said they are not similar production wise. When you figure out what it is you are arguing please let me know.





On a separate note, the idea of a cheap bridge deal for Trouba is intriguing. Could potentially open up the bidding to other teams who can't afford to pay him 5+ million now but could in a year or two.

I'm arguing value. This started with an 'easily' beats and I argued value.

Moving on, I don't see who doesn't win in the bridge contract deal.

Trouba wins. He goes to where he exactly wanted to go as an RFA. Rare.
Jets win. They get the price they want in a trade for Trouba.
Other team wins. They get Trouba on a great contract.

Now, if Trouba wanted to go to somewhere specifically and get paid the big contract (which him and his agent have said repeatedly that it isn't about the money, so step up and prove it) then he can rot in all year.

This is the one situation where I can think of that could re-shape RFA status. If you are a RFA and want to choose where to go after three years, by all means but you will be taking a severe salary cut to do so. New team gets you but has to pay a premium for your contract and services and the team drafting you gets a hue haul for developing you for three years.

 

[Coach Parker]

Interesting! Not trying to start an argument, but curious as to why? Just Carlo/Skjei's handedness?

That makes the most sense. They want a LHD over a RHD.

 

[allan5oh]

This is our defense tonight:

Morrissey - buff
Enstrom - Postma
Melchiori - Chiarot

Yup nothing to see here...

 

[aj8000]

None of that changes the fact that a player not playing for a year is a hit on their value. Even if he wants to go to one team, he's worth less to them when he hasn't played a year.



Thanks for telling me what I want. I specifically said this isn't the case. Let me discuss this situation, if you don't like what I have to say feel free to block me or just not respond every 2 minutes.



How often are players hurt for an entire year? How many of those have come back just fine?



Its not that different than being injured and coming back, but what sample size do we have of people being injured for an entire year and coming back? Also, see below:



This is a good point too. He's not at his ceiling, a year off now can do a lot of damage to his progression as a player.

I have heard all the arguments before. You are just another of a long line of people saying the same thing hoping that the jets trade trouba to their team and guess what, trouba is still not traded. maybe because the jets have different ideas then you and all the posters ahead of you

 

[Randal61]

It's a year he's not developing further though. It likely hurts his development long-term. These are prime years. Teams interested in Trouba aren't just interested in him as a #2 right now, but as a possible #1 in the future too.

He is 22 right now and been playing in the league for 3 years.
I think his development will be fine. He is a high end player. He's not in an early
development stage that will affect him greatly.
He stepped in at 19 and played regularly with no time in the minors.
I think he will be OK

 

[Snowman]

They're not wrong to play by the rules of the CBA. I never said they were. I said sitting Trouba out for a year would exacerbate their issue of being an unattractive destination, and I think it would.

That is just downright silly. How can you blame the Jets for something Trouba decided to do to himself? I can't see any pro being that stupid.

 

[Randal61]

Trouba just should of stayed in college to gain his free agency.
Got greedy for the ELC and bonus money and then a few years later, being a little deceitful.
What goes around......

 

[bearcountry17]

He is 22 right now and been playing in the league for 3 years.
I think his development will be fine. He is a high end player. He's not in an early
development stage that will affect him greatly.
He stepped in at 19 and played regularly with no time in the minors.
I think he will be OK

Agreed. After ~200 games what you see is what you get with the majority of defencemen.

 

[Stream*]

I'm discussing it, I happen to disagree with the idea that sitting him out a year is reasonable option or anything but a gigantic mistake and I'm explaining why. I'd like him as a Ranger, but I'd like any number of top 4 RHDs as Rangers as well. If he gets traded somewhere else before Dec 1st for a good haul, it'll be a smart move just the same as if he's moved to the Rangers.

Ya and you wouldn't like him as a Ranger next year, if you didn't get him this year.

 

[Randal61]

Trouba just should of stayed in college to gain his free agency.
Got greedy for the ELC and bonus money and then a few years later, being a little deceitful.
What goes around......

And I still would like Trouba to stick around.

 

[Stream*]

Agreed. After ~200 games what you see is what you get with the majority of defencemen.

Sort of like how Chara with his 30 points after 200 games is the same player that he was in his prime.